Youth soccer league portraits / package pricing

Bill_M · August 25, 2007

Hi guys,
I'm hoping some of you may have experience in this area & can offer some pointers.

Our youth soccer coach asked if I'd be willing to do the team photos this year. I currently shoot weddings & portraits & (mostly for friends & family) and offer al a cart pricing...meaning just buy the individual prints you want from my SM gallery.
However for this endeavor, I'd like to offer some package pricing. Can anyone let me know what the basic packages that they've offered in the past?
Also, do you generally shoot full-body shots (such as with one leg balanced on a soccer ball) or do you do waist-up shots? ...or both & offer both options on the website?

One final question...how do you keep track of which name matches which file number? I'll have an assistant on hand...I assume I just have a sheet with my shot counter number on it & record each shot on the sheet?

Thanks in advance...
Bill

Spagboy · August 25, 2007

Bill_M wrote:

One final question...how do you keep track of which name matches which file number? I'll have an assistant on hand

The guy who did my son's baseball pics had each kid turn around and he made the back of the jersey with the name and number the first pic in the series of each kid.

As for the other stuff, I got no clue, but I'd be interested in the answers too. My son's soccer coach saw me with my new DSLR and asked if I'd do the team shots this year.

G

Ann McRae · August 25, 2007

Hi Bill
I have experience doing this. (I actually worte this reply once, and it didn't take

) I will try to give you some relevant info.

I offer a variety of different services for sports teams. My prices are going up for next season. Generally, I am contacted by a single team at a time, and either do team and individual or action shots, or a combination of both.

I did all 11 teams for one community this spring. I spaced them out at 30 - 45 minutes per team over Friday p.m. and Saturday a.m. 8 hours total shooting, and it went very smoothly. I prepared by having the team lists sent to me ahead, and asked coaches to mark off players missing from the shoot. I made stickers for the backs of the folios that listed players but not in order. I took order forms along, contact info etc and offered additional print packages, player trading cards, etc. I put all photos onto smugmug. I did not sell any additional prints! Still, it was worth my time and effort for the 123 players that I shot.

For those teams, I was guided by the age of the plaers wrt posing. Younger players I was happy when they sat still with a ball somewhere in their vicinity. Older players I gave a choice of one or two poses.

I prefer to do action shots, and have become quite competent and successful at it.

I just finished shooting freelance at a hockey school. Probelems I experienced there were: relying on coaches to line the kids up properly (in order according to my list), not having enough time to adequately do the job (the coaches resented giving up their ice time), etc. The photographer that I worked for offers a lot of high end plaques, as well as various print packages and sizes. He does not edit anything! His pricing for a combination of team and individual is $25(much higher than mine), $26 for a pack of 8 trader cards, $20 for a 81/2 x 11 sheet with several photos all the same pose. This last item is standard pricing for any event photog that I've come across.

let me know if this is helpful, and holler if you have more questions.

ann

mike_k · August 25, 2007

I just did my first soccer portrait session this morning - it was actually my first paid session for anything. I've been shooting my kids games for years, and have some friends who we've been on teams with ask me to do the team portraits since their league does not have a league sponsored "photo day".

The pricing I came up with was based on me printing at home. I will also offer the photos plus other shots I took during the team's scrimmage after the session on my SmugMug site. Basically the pricing I used was $8.00 for each 8x10 sheet and $4 for half an 8x10 sheet (a 5x7 or 4 wallets). I then created 3 packages - each included a team combo - top half of the 8x10 with team name, logo, individual player photo and the bottom half the team 5x7. Each package then included a combination of 2 additional 8x10 sheets - e.g. 1 8x10 and 2 5x7s, or 1 8x10, 1 5x7 and 4 wallets, etc. So each package had 3 8x10 sheets total and cost $20.

As far as linking the player to the photo, I had the player hand me the form before taking their portrait and I wrote down the next frame number on their sheet.

Issues I had were forms not being filled out ahead of time - the parents got the forms last night at practice, and mostly dads were at the scrimmage this morning so they weren't prepared. What I'd like to do next time is provide the order forms a little earlier so the moms have some time to fill them out. (Let me just say that my daughter's photo day for soccer was last week and I was one of the dads filling the form out at the last minute

) Another issue with that is there's not time to look over the options so a lot of dads (e.g. me) just pick the cheapest option.

I didn't have an assistant this morning - but that would be a huge help.

I did the posing like my daughter's team did last week - player put her foot up on something about a foot high - I used an old milk carton basket, then rests the ball on her knee and holds it with both hands. Looking at Ann's site, I like her poses and wish I would have done some like that as well.

The last issue for me was location. This was at a huge, open soccer field, nothing good to use as a background. 9:00 am sun light was bright (nothing at all magical about this hour). I think next time I will bring a canopy to create a little shade.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Bill_M · August 26, 2007

Thank you guys so much for the information...I was a litte stressed yesterday, feel much better after reading these replies & seeing the samples.
Let me review & put something together this week...I may be back for more questions.

Thanks,
Bill

RustingInPeace · September 2, 2007

Alternate pose

Shot this for a spring team shoot. Just rying to get something a little out of the ordinary. using this angle I was able to avoid a problem background. Just my 2 cents worth.

Bill_M · September 5, 2007

Great pose...thank you very much for the idea. Just curious, to get that low, are you tripod mounted or shooting freehand? My shoot will likely be near sunset, I'm a little worried about low light for handheld....I'm gonna use tripiod / mirror lock-up.

Thanks...
Bill

RustingInPeace wrote:

Shot this for a spring team shoot. Just rying to get something a little out of the ordinary. using this angle I was able to avoid a problem background. Just my 2 cents worth.

anwmn1 · September 5, 2007

I did a shoot awhile back and had some alternate poses. Girls are more fun and may even have some of their own ideas. The girls I shoot wanted to have the option for a buddy photo.

I made 3 package options- 2 of them including a 4x6 buddy photo and also had an a la carte area where they could add on additional 8x10, wallets, or buddy shot.

I shot free hand most of the time but had a tri pod for the teams shots and a ladder to play with as well.

From up on the ladder- buddy shot

RustingInPeace · September 6, 2007

Bill_M wrote:

Great pose...thank you very much for the idea. Just curious, to get that low, are you tripod mounted or shooting freehand? My shoot will likely be near sunset, I'm a little worried about low light for handheld....I'm gonna use tripiod / mirror lock-up.

Thanks...
Bill

I always try to shoot these on the tripod (I have it set at minimum height, about 24 inches). I do it just for the sake of keeping all of the shots uniform. I'll set the tripod up and set the model, then place tape at key points so every stays consistent.

RustingInPeace · September 6, 2007

Forgot the Pricing

RustingInPeace wrote:

I always try to shoot these on the tripod (I have it set at minimum height, about 24 inches). I do it just for the sake of keeping all of the shots uniform. I'll set the tripod up and set the model, then place tape at key points so every stays consistent.

I have set it up with one package and no options:

I only do full teams (usually at least 14 kids)
$19.99 per player
I only do one shoot (about an hour)
The kids do three poses

The package I have been giving is

1 8x10 Team Photo
1 5x7 individual photo
4 wallets

My print costs are minimal $2.27 per kid. I don't provide any mounting for the pictures. That works out to around $240.00 profit for 2 hours of work. I really don't try to kill the parents on reprint prices if they want extras. I keep it pretty close to my cost. Heck I have even thrown in DVD slideshows for teams that I like.

I really don't look to make money on these; it's kind of a lost leader. I am really after the parent's contact information. I put all of their data into ACT and drip market them, for portrait work. It's about trying to build long term relationships with these people. Getting the data as well as exposure is what this exercise is about for me.

Bill_M · September 6, 2007

Great info...thanks again!!!

time2smile · September 6, 2007

Soccer Pics Order Envelope
My son was given an envelope that had the order form printed on the outside including package offers. It also asked his interests, the position he plays, a few other things that dont come to mind. The check was sealed inside and given to the assistant. They wrote the shot # on the envelope in a little square in the corner. I thought it was a great idea, wish I had keeped an extra one for a sample.

cornmann51 · January 5, 2008

Where to get order forms?
Last year my wife and i shot the local high school show choir. It was a short notice shoot for over 200 kids. what we ended up doing was printing onto manilla envelopes, it looked really unprofessional. any ideas on places that print out the basic order form with the 8"x 10" info page and the envelope attached at the bottom?

1downfall · March 12, 2010

anwmn1 wrote:

I did a shoot awhile back and had some alternate poses. Girls are more fun and may even have some of their own ideas. The girls I shoot wanted to have the option for a buddy photo.

I made 3 package options- 2 of them including a 4x6 buddy photo and also had an a la carte area where they could add on additional 8x10, wallets, or buddy shot.

I shot free hand most of the time but had a tri pod for the teams shots and a ladder to play with as well.

From up on the ladder- buddy shot

I really like the creativity here. You wouldn't happen to recall how far away you were for these shots would you?

ColoradoSkier · March 12, 2010

cornmann51 wrote:

Last year my wife and i shot the local high school show choir. It was a short notice shoot for over 200 kids. what we ended up doing was printing onto manilla envelopes, it looked really unprofessional. any ideas on places that print out the basic order form with the 8"x 10" info page and the envelope attached at the bottom?

Since this thread has been revived, and I am getting ready to go through this with a couple of local youth baseball associations...

Black River Imaging has a great program at http://www.blackriverimaging.com/sports_products.asp - it includes the pre-printed envelopes with price lists, etc. ($0.14 each, minimum order of 100).

I read the posts in this thread, and want to address a couple of things in case others were wondering about this:

1) Lifetouch is the established market leader. They have been doing this forever, and if you are trying to get into it, they are likely your main competitor. That said, in my 5 years as a coach and parent, I never thought they were providing packages that had a value = to what they were selling them for. So this year I decided to really get after it.

2) Putting the pics on smugmug, or any hosting service, and expecting people to order at their leisure will not work. The way these things work is a total impulse deal. Get the pre-printed envelopes with your package and ala carte pricing on them and you will make sales.

3) A lot of sports associations cover the cost of an 8x10 team or composite photo even if the player doesn't order anything else. The margin for this is generally quite low, but it should cover the cost of shooting for a day. Everything else is then gravy on top.

4) On picture day, each player brings their envelope. As mentioned by someone else, you write the roll and frame number on the envelope, and you are good to go.

5) Most associations start talking about their picture vendor about 6 months in advance of the season starting. I missed out on several this year because I started my marketing way too late. Won't make the same mistake next year.

Black River has some sample package pricing, but it is not competitive with what Lifetouch is charging in my area. If you want to see what last years packages offered, I have a file I can send you. I can also send you a file showing my package contents and pricing, along with margins (fulfillment with Black River), if you are in an area that I won't be competing with you (the west side of Denver - mainly Jefferson County).

I love Smugmug, and Bay Photo prints rock, but Black River has the best overall solution and pricing for this in my opinion, that's why I chose them.

Anyhow, that's my $.02 worth, since this was reopened and all.

ColoradoSkier · March 24, 2010

Seems that most of the baseball leagues picked photographers back in January. All but one, and I got notice today that I will be their photographer. I am VERY, VERY excited. Now I need to get order forms printed and build an online order form to take credit cards, then plan out the day. With 2 cameras going, I think we can do a baseball team (9-12 players) in about 20 minutes... Wow, I am so happy right now...

ColoradoSkier · March 25, 2010

Glort - thanks for the reply, I truly appreciate it.

I am having pre-printed forms made by Black River Imaging ($0.14 per envelope, and I need ~300), who will also be doing the fulfillment side of things. They have an impressive setup for this, at extremely reasonable prices (in the US anyway).

I don't have a merchant account, so that is why I wanted to do an online order form. Someone mentioned Paypal Virtual Merchant though, so I will take a look and see what that is.

I had planned on having samples of everything on site the day of the shoot. I used to be a coach, and I now how impulsive the mom's are about their keepsakes. 3" buttons, magnetic pennants, stadium tickets, posters, there will be plenty of stuff for the mom's and the players to be excited about.

I created my own packages, and have 4 price ranges. On top of that, the association is picking up the cost of the "composite", which every player gets. I also have add-on's that can easily drive the price up into the neighborhood I am hoping for. That said, the margins on everything are pretty good (well, to me, as I haven't done this before), and I am satisfied with that end. Of course, I'll let you know how I feel after this is all done for the season.

I figured 20 mins because that would give me time to setup the group shot, and then get all of the individual ones (I have to shoot every player for their composite). Erring on the side of caution for sure, but I'd prefer to do that on my first go-round. I can adjust next year as needed.

My biggest worry is the weather. Highly unpredictable around here. My last season of coaching, our team pics were done in the rain. Not sure if that company elected to try to reschedule, but I never heard of it. I would be inclined to try, to get the best outdoor pics we can.

I am still excited, which is good I think.

bike21 · March 25, 2010

Ann McRae wrote:

(I actually worte this reply once, and it didn't take )

As an aside, for all long'ish entries I make to forms of any sort, forums, feedback, etc., I now always either copy the text before I hit submit and/or open a text document and have it there too. I have had too many long winded entries end up in the ether only to have to redo it again :bluduh

tijoseph · March 25, 2010

I've been considering getting into this for awhile, however haven't yet.

What is the best way to reach these associations, and what are some pointers on how they select the photographer?

astrostu · March 25, 2010

With thread necromancy and me being new to the forum, I wanted to mention something that I didn't see yet suggested but read about a long time ago on a forum far far away. Someone once suggested that what they do is bring two dry-erase whiteboards (the small, 2x3-ft kind) to the shoot. They have each kid write their name and jersey number on the board and then the FIRST photo of that person is with them holding the whiteboard. A "mugshot" if you will. To me, that sounded like an excellent idea and I plan on using it if I ever do team shoots.

tijoseph · March 26, 2010

astrostu wrote:

With thread necromancy and me being new to the forum, I wanted to mention something that I didn't see yet suggested but read about a long time ago on a forum far far away. Someone once suggested that what they do is bring two dry-erase whiteboards (the small, 2x3-ft kind) to the shoot. They have each kid write their name and jersey number on the board and then the FIRST photo of that person is with them holding the whiteboard. A "mugshot" if you will. To me, that sounded like an excellent idea and I plan on using it if I ever do team shoots.

That is a good idea. I like it!

ColoradoSkier · March 26, 2010

With the pre-printed envelopes, there is no real need to do the white board thing. You just make sure you have a box where you or your assistant can right in the card number and frame number and you are good to go. Saves a ton on time.

Glort - I like the thought of just having an assistant instead of two cameras. Probably go that route and just keep the 2nd camera around in case something goes wrong with the primary. I think it'll be a good experience for my oldest daughter. I also think talking to people will be easier since I used to coach in the same league I am shooting.

Art Scott · March 26, 2010

ColoradoSkier wrote:

Seems that most of the baseball leagues picked photographers back in January. All but one, and I got notice today that I will be their photographer. I am VERY, VERY excited. Now I need to get order forms printed and build an online order form to take credit cards, then plan out the day. With 2 cameras going, I think we can do a baseball team (9-12 players) in about 20 minutes... Wow, I am so happy right now...

The last year I shot team shots ......we were given 3-5 minutes to shoot each team, whether baseball, football, soccer.........it was 5 minutes max...but we were shooting on game days.......that way everyone was in nice clean uniforms and all.........I would normally start shooting at basically sunrise and end at dark.....we had a runner that kept our water bottles filled and at somewhere around noon would drop off a burger and fries.....

Itwas exhausting but I found it to be tons of fun....................I usually had to see a chiropractor and masseusse for a few days after each such event.

Since there is no film changing you should be able to get the 5 minutes per team with no problem...........do remember that the photo count on the disply is not the same as a frame number......

ColoradoSkier · March 26, 2010

Art Scott wrote:

Since there is no film changing you should be able to get the 5 minutes per team with no problem...........do remember that the photo count on the disply is not the same as a frame number......

ColoradoSkier · March 30, 2010

Close to finalizing the order form. I have checked it three times, and even went back into Excel to double-check my margins to make sure this won't cost me, but still feel like I am missing something. I hate that nagging feeling.

rgphoto · March 30, 2010

I can't answer this from a photographer's stand point, but I can from a player's standpoint.

When I played as a kid, photograph day was always pretty hectic. None of us wanted to get our pictures taken, we just wanted to get out on the field. I would make sure you have contact information for all the coaches, and tell them which day you plan on being there, and have them notify the kids on their team to show up early for their game. Also, it is very possible that you can get a roster from the coaches, that way you don't have to record every players name. You can just look them up on the roster instead.

From what I remember, our package included something along the lines of...
(1) 8x10 team photo
(6) players cards

ColoradoSkier · March 30, 2010

Thanks for the reply @rgphoto. It is pretty much down to a science here. We have a very regimented schedule of when teams should arrive, etc. The league supplies every player with a photo, but if they want to upgrade, I have 4 packages to choose from, and 12 add-on items (buttons, pennants, etc). I will be placing the order later this week for samples of all the items I will be selling, to help with impulse upgrades on picture day.

I think the biggest reason I am nervous is that this is the largest project I have tackled in photography, and I want it to be a success. I have been through it countless times as a coach and parent, so I already have a good feel for the flow. Just need to go through the checklist one more time, and pray for good weather. And build the online credit card order form, and whatever else pops into my mind...

rgphoto · March 30, 2010

ColoradoSkier wrote:

Thanks for the reply @rgphoto. It is pretty much down to a science here. We have a very regimented schedule of when teams should arrive, etc. The league supplies every player with a photo, but if they want to upgrade, I have 4 packages to choose from, and 12 add-on items (buttons, pennants, etc). I will be placing the order later this week for samples of all the items I will be selling, to help with impulse upgrades on picture day.

I think the biggest reason I am nervous is that this is the largest project I have tackled in photography, and I want it to be a success. I have been through it countless times as a coach and parent, so I already have a good feel for the flow. Just need to go through the checklist one more time, and pray for good weather. And build the online credit card order form, and whatever else pops into my mind...

Sounds like you're all set then. Good luck!

fredjclaus · April 6, 2010

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, but I have a question. I was asked to submit a proposal for my towns program as well. Can this be done with one photographer and one camera, or do you really need a few photographers shooting at the same time?

rgphoto · April 6, 2010

fredjclaus wrote:

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, but I have a question. I was asked to submit a proposal for my towns program as well. Can this be done with one photographer and one camera, or do you really need a few photographers shooting at the same time?

I would say it depends on how big your town's program is (how many teams). All teams should be done within one day. Figure 20 kids per team, that's maybe 40-60 frames per team, plus a couple group shots. How long with that take you?

x (# of teams).

Hope this helps!

ColoradoSkier · April 6, 2010

I am planning to do this with 2 assistants and myself. One camera.

Step 1: Assistant 1 gets kids in order by height, answers questions about packages and products
Step 2: Assistant 2 places kids in orderly rows for group shot
Step 3: I shoot the group shot
Step 4: Kids come through one at a time for individual pictures. I write the frame number on the corresponding envelope.
Step 5: Repeat 4 until all kids shot.

We are scheduling a team every 15 mins. Have 23 teams to shoot, varying from 10-12 players per team.

Fred - email me if you want and I can share my proposal stuff with you. chester at chesterbullock.com

Youth soccer league portraits / package pricing

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