Save for Web

daveman

I find that when I post my shots on the web - like at this site - my shots looks flatter and a little less sharp on the web than in Photoshop.

Typically I take a flattened RGB file, save for web, set the size to 800 on the longest side, set IQ to just under the limits for the forum (in this case about 145K), and then save it.

I then dup the background layer, sharpen it, flatten it and post. After posting, on my monitor it will not be quite as sharp and the colors seem muted.

Is this just to be expected, or is there something I am doing wrong when I prepare it for the web? I expect this probably has been covered on this forum before, but I looked through quite a few posts and could not find something on it.

I would appreciate some help.

Thanks,

Dave

ShepsMom

I have noticed that as well, i just don't use it I don't see what the benefit of it is?

Andy

daveman wrote:

I find that when I post my shots on the web - like at this site - my shots looks flatter and a little less sharp on the web than in Photoshop.

Typically I take a flattened RGB file, save for web, set the size to 800 on the longest side, set IQ to just under the limits for the forum (in this case about 145K), and then save it.

I then dup the background layer, sharpen it, flatten it and post. After posting, on my monitor it will not be quite as sharp and the colors seem muted.

Is this just to be expected, or is there something I am doing wrong when I prepare it for the web? I expect this probably has been covered on this forum before, but I looked through quite a few posts and could not find something on it.

I would appreciate some help.

Thanks,

Dave

Hmm Save for Web will put the file in sRGB... so it should be the same. Perhaps you are using a different color space (check that) in your processing?

Also, Save For Web strips EXIF so we don't recommend it. Use Save As, much better

arodney

Andy wrote:

Hmm Save for Web will put the file in sRGB... so it should be the same. Perhaps you are using a different color space (check that) in your processing?

Depends on the version of Photoshop and if you have sRGB set (in CS3). Many users don't look and end up sending documents through SFW that are NOT in sRGB. If you're on CS2 or earlier, you need to first convert to sRGB using Convert to Profile. If you're on CS3, check the settings for sRGB in the popup menu options.

daveman

arodney wrote:

Depends on the version of Photoshop and if you have sRGB set (in CS3). Many users don't look and end up sending documents through SFW that are NOT in sRGB. If you're on CS2 or earlier, you need to first convert to sRGB using Convert to Profile. If you're on CS3, check the settings for sRGB in the popup menu options.

Andrew,

I am in CS2; Are the screen shots you posted are CS3?

Before I save to web, I have been converting back to RGB using Image/Mode/RGB. Is it better to convert to RGB through "Convert to Profile" rather than Image/Mode/RGB?

I now see under Edit a "Convert to Profile" option. If I take a JPG that was created through "Save to Web" , then select "Convert to Profile" - the option shows a Source Profile of sRGB IEC61966-2.1. Does that mean it is saving in sRGB?

Thanks for your help.

Dave

arodney

The screen shots are both CS2 and CS3.

In CS2, you hvae to do this manually using Convert to Profile, yes.

Mike Lane

I'll pop this in here and ultimately make a new thread too. This just recently bit me in the behind so I want to have some place to go when I forget (again).

If you want your photos or graphics to look the same in the save for web dialog as the do in your photoshop editing window (and on the web) you will have to do the following:

1) Make sure your monitor gamma is set to 2.2 (this is for you mac peeps only) and that you've either calibrated your monitor either by eye with the built-in tools or with some kind of device.

2) Convert your photo to sRGB before using save for web (I saw this elsewhere on the web, but I'm a bit skeptical since sfw has a convert to sRGB option. YMMV.)

3) In photoshop go to view > proof setup > monitor rgb

4) In photoshop make sure view > proof colors is checked

5) In the save for web dialog make sure that you've got "uncompensated color" set for each of your possible window panes (note the blue highlight border around the selected pane):




This is particularly important if you're doing graphics for the web. If you want the hex color 8cca1e to look the same in your png's and gif's as it does in your html or CSS (i.e. .element {background:#8cca1e;}) then you won't be able to do it without these settings. Your head will asplode!

Enjoy.

LAB.rat

This one instructs to check "Use document color profile" instead...
www.tranberry.com/photoshop/photoshop_scripting/tips/sRGBs4w.html

Mike Lane

LAB.rat wrote:

This one instructs to check "Use document color profile" instead...
www.tranberry.com/photoshop/photoshop_scripting/tips/sRGBs4w.html

Looks like that will work as well. I just checked and it looked the same irrespective of what I had set. The real issue is making it look the same when you're actually working on it in PS as it would on the web. That is where the proof colors bit comes into play.

LAB.rat

To me there's a clear difference, at least in the SFW dialog. Maybe it depends on certain colors.
Anyway, people can take their pick

arodney

LAB.rat wrote:

This one instructs to check "Use document color profile" instead...
www.tranberry.com/photoshop/photoshop_scripting/tips/sRGBs4w.html

And what version of Photoshop is he useing???

LAB.rat

I don't have a Mac, but I guess CS2.

I know CS3 has saving in sRGB as default, but what about these options we just "discussed"...?

arodney

LAB.rat wrote:

I don't have a Mac, but I guess CS2.

I know CS3 has saving in sRGB as default, but what about these options we just "discussed"...?

My point is CS2 and CS3 are two different beasts, I can't find this menu option discussed under CS3 nor can I see, how its now behaving this is necessary.

In CS3, just click one check box which is sticky and be done.

Mike Lane

arodney wrote:

My point is CS2 and CS3 are two different beasts, I can't find this menu option discussed under CS3 nor can I see, how its now behaving this is necessary.

In CS3, just click one check box which is sticky and be done.

I used CS3 in the screenshot I posted and it shows the use document color profile option.

LAB.rat

It is indeed a pity that you can't find it in CS3, because you could be expected to tell us what it's really there for...

As I understand it, it won't affect the output, but it does affect what you think the output will be. There are times when you spot the difference between colors in PS itself and the SFW dialog if this option is incorrectly checked, which seems to panic some people into thinking the output is totally off, without it really being the case. They then go on to forums without having checked the final output and seeing that all would have been ok.

I guess it's also useful to foresee how the image will look on a Mac/PC.

Thanks to Mike, I'm just unclear now which option really should be checked or when to check the first option... (probably nothing that a few tests couldn't fix)

arodney

In CS3 it seems the issues are fixed with the sRGB check box. I get identical previews. But no matter what you or Adobe do, this is ONLY true on YOUR machine! Since Photoshop always uses the display profile to produce a preview and some other applications do not, the same numbers, even in sRGB may preview differently on other's machines and browsers. The soft proof options (Monitor RGB) along with Macintosh and Windows are there to try to show you how the images will appear on others systems but YMMV since there's no way for Photosohop to show you how your buddies system will look since it doesn't have access to the display profile. Monitor RGB is the closest option to show you how your images will appear on your machine in a non ICC aware application. Anyone else's dispaly? All bets are off.

Mike Lane

arodney wrote:

In CS3 it seems the issues are fixed with the sRGB check box. I get identical previews. But no matter what you or Adobe do, this is ONLY true on YOUR machine! Since Photoshop always uses the display profile to produce a preview and some other applications do not, the same numbers, even in sRGB may preview differently on other's machines and browsers. The soft proof options (Monitor RGB) along with Macintosh and Windows are there to try to show you how the images will appear on others systems but YMMV since there's no way for Photosohop to show you how your buddies system will look since it doesn't have access to the display profile. Monitor RGB is the closest option to show you how your images will appear on your machine in a non ICC aware application. Anyone else's dispaly? All bets are off.

All I know is that without the soft proof I see colors that are brighter in photoshop than they end up being in the web browser. It is impossible to match the html or CSS colors without doing it this way I've found. My goal here is not to make it so a graphic looks exactly the same in each and every computer/monitor configuration on the planet. My goal is to make it so a graphic that is #ff0000 in photoshop looks the same as a background that is set to #ff0000 in my CSS.

So if you or anyone else is running into the same issue, fix it like I said.

arodney

Mike Lane wrote:

All I know is that without the soft proof I see colors that are brighter in photoshop than they end up being in the web browser.

Try Safari, then let us know if they match (they should).

You can't compare the preview of a document in a color managed application to that of a non color managed application no matter what you do in Photoshop (other than use the Soft Proof setting set to Your monitor which still doesn't tell us what it would look like on any other system).

One sends the RGB numbers directly to the display (not color managed).
The other sends the RGB numbers through the display profile after looking at the document color space (sRGB doesn't by itself fix issue #1 above).

SloYerRoll

Mike Lane wrote:

If you want your photos or graphics to look the same in the save for web dialog as the do in your photoshop editing window (and on the web) you will have to do the following:....Enjoy.

Thanks for posting this Mike. I have had simular problems w/ this and all anyone talked about was color management when I already knew what color space I was in from ingestion to output.

I just tested this process and it is DYNOMITE!

Thanks again.

-Jon

Mike Lane

arodney wrote:

Try Safari, then let us know if they match (they should).

You can't compare the preview of a document in a color managed application to that of a non color managed application no matter what you do in Photoshop (other than use the Soft Proof setting set to Your monitor which still doesn't tell us what it would look like on any other system).

One sends the RGB numbers directly to the display (not color managed).
The other sends the RGB numbers through the display profile after looking at the document color space (sRGB doesn't by itself fix issue #1 above).

This is what it looks like. The images are outlined in black and they are both the same color according to photoshop: #8cca1e, SmugMug green. The background is set to #8cca1e as well. The colors that I see when I'm working on the images without the soft proof on are like the bottom box. Note that it is brighter and I can't, without silly guess work, make it look the same as html colors in any browser.



Thus my point. If you do not have the soft proof options enabled, you will not be able to get colors that match html colors from photoshop. So, if you need to get colors that look like what you'll see in a web browser or if you're trying to match html colors, then you'll need to do what I explained earlier.

SloYerRoll

Mike Lane wrote:

then you'll need to do what I explained earlier.

Is there any settings in LR that I should consider that you know of to ensure this doesn't happen?

I'm switching over to LR except for the heavy lifting and want to keep things as consistant as possible.

-Jon

Mike Lane

SloYerRoll wrote:

Is there any settings in LR that I should consider that you know of to ensure this doesn't happen?

I'm switching over to LR except for the heavy lifting and want to keep things as consistant as possible.

-Jon

I don't currently use light room, sorry. In fact, I haven't messed with an actual *photo* in months.

SloYerRoll

Mike Lane wrote:

I don't currently use light room, sorry. In fact, I haven't messed with an actual *photo* in months.

Didn't hurt to ask a SmugMaster

Get out and take some shots Man! WHen you do check out the trial of LR. It is WAY cool man.