I'm out of ideas... (color space and Firefox)
Matthew Saville
Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
Alright, I've read up a LOT on the whole color space web browser nightmare... I'm still very stumped about what's up with Firefox on my Mac... Here's the details:
- On my Mac, Bridge CS3, Photoshop CS3, and Safari all display images exactly the same.
- As far as I can tell, they look exactly the same as IE and Firefox on my PC, as well as in Bridge CS2 and Photoshop CS2.
- Firefox on my Mac displays images slightly less saturated / lighter.
- Okay I LIED, Safari on my Mac displays "L" etc. size images slightly less saturated, but "O" images DO look the same as BR / PS.
- My D70 is set to sRGB. I shoot RAW
- Bridge CS3 is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1, 8 Bits.
- PS CS3 color settings are set to convert all imags to the working RGB, sRGB IEC1966-2.1 using the Adobe ACE conversion engine, Relative Colorimetric, Black Point comp, Dither. Advanced Controls are not set. (meaning no desat. % or Blend RGB using Gamma...)
- I use "Save As" in PS even for web-bound images, so that I can "Embed color profile: sRGB IEC61966-2.1.
...What gives? It appears that Firefox isn't recognizing color correctly, period, and Safari is not recognizing Smugmug thumbs correctly.
BTW, this discrepancy does not change no matter what I set my monitor profile to.
Thanks,
=Matt=
I tested this difference with the following colorful image. There was no gamut warning in PS, it was saved JPG quality 11 and uploaded to Smugmug, this is the "O" size... When I view it in Firefox, (which I'm using to post this) it looks slightly different than Safari. (which I avoid using because Firefox seems to run smoother for me)
- On my Mac, Bridge CS3, Photoshop CS3, and Safari all display images exactly the same.
- As far as I can tell, they look exactly the same as IE and Firefox on my PC, as well as in Bridge CS2 and Photoshop CS2.
- Firefox on my Mac displays images slightly less saturated / lighter.
- Okay I LIED, Safari on my Mac displays "L" etc. size images slightly less saturated, but "O" images DO look the same as BR / PS.
- My D70 is set to sRGB. I shoot RAW
- Bridge CS3 is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1, 8 Bits.
- PS CS3 color settings are set to convert all imags to the working RGB, sRGB IEC1966-2.1 using the Adobe ACE conversion engine, Relative Colorimetric, Black Point comp, Dither. Advanced Controls are not set. (meaning no desat. % or Blend RGB using Gamma...)
- I use "Save As" in PS even for web-bound images, so that I can "Embed color profile: sRGB IEC61966-2.1.
...What gives? It appears that Firefox isn't recognizing color correctly, period, and Safari is not recognizing Smugmug thumbs correctly.
BTW, this discrepancy does not change no matter what I set my monitor profile to.
Thanks,
=Matt=
I tested this difference with the following colorful image. There was no gamut warning in PS, it was saved JPG quality 11 and uploaded to Smugmug, this is the "O" size... When I view it in Firefox, (which I'm using to post this) it looks slightly different than Safari. (which I avoid using because Firefox seems to run smoother for me)
“My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
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This is something that about drove me bonkers. It's worse when you're trying to do graphics for the web and the graphics end up a few shades darker than the HTML colors. Make your head asplode. :splat
The fix? Make sure you're using a windows gamut on your monitor #1. Then go into photoshop and go to view > proof setup > windows RGB. That should make it so the colors in the browsers match up with the colors you see in photoshop.
EDIT: also great shot there
EDIT 2: Oh and if you're using the save for web feature use that to save a document and then click the 4-Up tab. Look at the top right for the right arrow and select the Standard Windows Color option. Now highlight each cell in the 4-Up (note the blue border for the active cell) and do that same thing (right arrow select Standard Windows Color). You don't actually have to save a document, those options will be retained (unless you have to re-install CS3).
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
Do I have to select View > Proof Colors EVERY time I want to see this, then? Or is it always on? I use WHCC proof colors every now and then to check a certain hue of yellow that likes to turn green, but other than that I never touch it...
Thanks! Shot it today, on my day off. You should see the shot I got at a wedding yesterday!!!
http://www.xanga.com/matthewsaville
=Matt=
[Edit- Hmm, could it be the fact that I'm using a somewhat limiting MacBook (non-pro) screen?]
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
No, just set it and forget it. If you've got a good reason to check another profile, cool, but then make sure to set it back to windows afterwards.
No, I don't think so. I'm thinking that these steps will fix your problems.
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/02/14/this-is-your-mac-on-drugs/
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Got it. Problem solved. Here's the story: Originally, I tried to calibrate my screen by eye, using that crazy "expert mode", which is basically impossible to do accurately. Then I tried having my friend calibrate my screen with an Xrite, but that definitely left things too magenta and we didn't have time to give it a 2nd try... So in the end I basically just settled for "Color LCD", the default profile that came with the MacBook, because hey, those colors (In BR / PS) looked pretty much consistent with all the prints I've ever printed, so why fix something that ain't broke?
I should have known that I was stuck at 1.8... (That's what it was, right? If the image is too light / desaturated, that means the gamma was a lower number than 2.2? Or a higher number?
Hey Andy, actually that's one of the articles that started me on this whole crusade to get to the bottom of things, I just didn't realize I was in the wrong gamma, and I was very stumped as to why Safari was correctly displaying "O" size images but not "L" etc sizes...
I also read another article, by the guy Chris discussed colors with on DPR:
http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page3
The page before that, actually, has a great interactive display of different profiles,
http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page2/
...If I'm uploading an image to the web and it's got an sRGB profile, how come Safari displays "O" differently than "L"? I know Smugmug converts everything to sRGB and then strips the color profiles, but if it's already in SRGB, I don't understand the discrepancy...
In any case, no more discrepancy, and I will definitely have to do an official write-up on my newfound mastery of color on the internet. I know at least two friends who are having similar issues with their mac.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
It's because Safari uses your monitor profile, not sRGB, when no profile is present. I know very few people who feel Safari should behave that way considering sRGB is the standard color space of the web and 99.9% of all images on the web are sRGB.
What that means is for HTML, CSS, and Flash, it's using sRGB, but for your photo it's guessing your monitor profile when the sRGB profile isn't there. Crazy, because no one is gonna embed sRGB in thumbnails anytime soon because it doubles the size of thumbnails.