RAW Problems

Zanotti

I recently changed over to shooting RAW in order to get more latitude in shooting sports with white uniforms.

I have a new 30D, and just set the quality menu to RAW only and went to a football game. I shot over 300 photos and processed them upon my return with i2e and posted them up on Smugmug. They didnt auto rotate, so I sent a note to Andy asking why. He attributited it to i2e, so I wrote Frank Grossman at Colour Science.

Frank had me send a raw CR2 file, and the finished product as posed on Smugmug. I got Frank's reply, but of course I dont understand it:

""This is a strange type of CR2 file. It is not a normal RAW file because it is only 24bit. Also Windows does not display Exif info if you right click the file and select propertys. My version of Photoshop CS does even not open this file and with IrfanView the image is displayed in 4 planesThat must be a very strange file format. Better try to save real 48bit RAW CR2 files. Then also Exif saving should work. If you save 24bit files, then you better use jpeg. I can not see a big advantage of this special CR2 24 bit format. ""

I was not able to open these in IE Raw viewer, but was able to view in PSE and I2E. The exif data has been stripped from the image, but not if processed via PSE. What did I do? How do I change it back? I did not select to change the bit format, just changed the image quality to RAW only. Do I need to update something?

I must admit, the images processed well and I was pleased with the output, but the non operation of rotation, the inablity to view exif data, and the disappearance of raw viewer has me perplexed.

I went to the manual, but do not see any C Fn that would change the bit rate.

Ideas?

Z


They are in this gallery: www.lancers.smugmug.com

ziggy53

Do you still have the original files on the card?

What did you use to transfer the files into the computer?

Are you running Vista?

Zanotti

ziggy53 wrote:

Do you still have the original files on the card?

What did you use to transfer the files into the computer?

Are you running Vista?

Probably no, but I have them on the computer.

I transfer via an Extreme III USB2 card reader.

I run XP.

mercphoto

Problems like this is why I'm often embarassed to admit I work in the hi-tech world. I mean, honestly, how hard should it be to work with photographs? Why are things still this difficult?

I work on a Mac so I'm not familiar with your problem (for example, I don't know what i2e is) but I do know that Smugmug (and other apps) sometimes have problems with the rotate flag. For exmample, in-camera JPG's from my 20D didn't always rotate correct in all applications. However, if I ran them through Photoshop, even if nothing else to do a save to a new JPG, always did rotate correctly.

Why rotate flags don't always work? See my first paragraph.

ziggy53

Zanotti wrote:

...

I transfer via an Extreme III USB2 card reader.

...

What software or method did you use to copy the files from the card onto the computer?

Zanotti

ziggy53 wrote:

What software or method did you use to copy the files from the card onto the computer?

I did it two ways.

One: I opened i2e and used the card as the source into i2e, post processed (if you use i2e, its process all images), then to a folder on my desktop. I2e converted the images to jpeg.

The second was to open two windows and drag and drop from the card window to the folder window. I used copy here , not move here - if that makes sense. These stayed as CR2 files. These CR2 files do not open in IE RAW viewer and was one of the ones I forwarded to Frank.

ziggy53

Zanotti wrote:

I did it two ways.

One: I opened i2e and used the card as the source into i2e, post processed (if you use i2e, its process all images), then to a folder on my desktop. I2e converted the images to jpeg.

The second was to open two windows and drag and drop from the card window to the folder window. I used copy here , not move here - if that makes sense. These stayed as CR2 files. These CR2 files do not open in IE RAW viewer and was one of the ones I forwarded to Frank.

As far as I can tell, you did everything correctly. I am at a loss to explain what might have happened.

It does sound like something accidentally wrote back to the files, using the original file names and extensions.

I suggest that in the future, copy the files first onto the computer, remove the card and then do your processing on the copies. If anything goes wrong, you still have the originals to re-copy.

Definitely do some testing before your next serious shoot.

Zanotti

Somehow it must be i2e rewriting back on the card.

I will try and reverse the order and see if shots directly from the camera do the same thing before I run the card through i2e.

I'll try it tonight and report.

Zanotti

RAW Problems
OK, I got home, took the camera, reformatted the card and reset the camera to new by using the clear setings function.

I changed the quaity to RAW + L and took a few shots.

The jpeg opens in IE, the RAW does not. PSE can open the RAW file. See screen captures below:



RAW fails to load either full size or thumbnail:




However PSE will load the file as a RAW file:



I also got another note from Frank Grossman from CS ( he is quite responsive!) that I do not understand:

"
Yes, I think you have to chose real 16bit RAW mode. If you look at the Exif header of your file then you see that you have only 8bit per color and you have jpeg compression. In this case it makes more sense to save in standard jpeg mode to be compatible to other software programs

Zanotti

i2e capture

jimf

Being a 30D owner myself, I can explain some of this.

CR2 is the newest of Canon's RAW formats, and a lot of software simply does not read it. It appears to be a very minor variant on CRW, however, to the degree that it was possible to hack Adobe Camera RAW to read it (prior to the release of a version that officially supported it) by tricking it into believing it was a supported format.

The first support for CR2 other than from Canon was from PhaseOne; their CaptureOne software supported it about a week after the 30D hit the streets. Apple was second out the door; Aperture -- as well as MacOS X in general -- got support about a month afterward. Adobe took a couple of months.

Windows' support for RAW formats is, in general, poor. It doesn't surprise me that IE doesn't recognize it.

I don't know why the orientation feature wouldn't work reliably, that sounds like the software you are using. All of the software I use that recognizes the flag at all works correctly.

claudermilk

Remember that all CR2 files are not created equal. My 20D's CR2 is not the same as your 30D's CR2, and the 1D bodies' CR2 are all different again. Just because the extension is the same doesn't mean anything--you have to look at the body as well since each and every DSLR body creates it's own unique RAW file format. That's the root of the damn RAW problem & why OpenRAW exists.

rpcrowe

Could my problem be connected to this...
I was able to open RAW using CS2 (Photoshop and Adobe Bridge) using my older Dell Desktop Computer. However when I loaded CS2 on my new Dell Desktop Computer (Optiplex 745) neither Adobe Bridge nor Photoshop will open RAW files. I loaded the CS2 on the new computer from the same disks that I used to load CS2 on the old computer.

It doesn't seem to matter which camera I shoot the Raw files with (10D, 30D or 350D) or if I shoot plain RAW or RAW + JPEG. They still open using the old computer and won't open on the new computer.

I would normally just delete the CS2 program on the new computer and reload the CS2, but I am afraid that there may be only a certain number of times the disks can be loaded. I had this problem using Adobe Acrobat Standard.

ziggy53

rpcrowe wrote:

I was able to open RAW using CS2 (Photoshop and Adobe Bridge) using my older Dell Desktop Computer. However when I loaded CS2 on my new Dell Desktop Computer (Optiplex 745) neither Adobe Bridge nor Photoshop will open RAW files. I loaded the CS2 on the new computer from the same disks that I used to load CS2 on the old computer.

It doesn't seem to matter which camera I shoot the Raw files with (10D, 30D or 350D) or if I shoot plain RAW or RAW + JPEG. They still open using the old computer and won't open on the new computer.

I would normally just delete the CS2 program on the new computer and reload the CS2, but I am afraid that there may be only a certain number of times the disks can be loaded. I had this problem using Adobe Acrobat Standard.

You should not be having any problems with the Optiplex 745, CS2 and either the Canon 10D or 350D/XT. The 30D might require an upgrade, but if RAW files opened on the older machine, it sounds like you might have the upgrade.

It's time to contact Adobe for customer support. There may be some versional issues, but you need to document the problem with them as well.

TristanP

Do you have the lastest Canon-RAW-specific files for I2E?

Canon RAW Support installer link right above the features chart

hgernhardtjr

rpcrowe wrote:

I would normally just delete the CS2 program on the new computer and reload the CS2, but I am afraid that there may be only a certain number of times the disks can be loaded. I had this problem using Adobe Acrobat Standard.

Assuming this is a properly registered CS2, there are no limits to reinstallation ... you are allowed 2 legitimately registered copies BTW ... at worse, all you have to do is follow Adobe's unregistering procedure, uninstall, and reregister. At least, that has been my experience over several computers/repairs since CS2 first came out. And Adobe support will work with you if your HD goes south without warning and you are unable to unregister ... as long as you are the registered owner.