Overcast Skies
ok, maybe you can help me understand this better.....
so my understanding is that an overcast sky is a cloudy day, one with few breaks in the clouds. looks like a white canopy and produces a diffused light with few if any shadows.
This is good for portraits and colorful flowers and scenes that otherwise in full sun would produce areas of high contrast.
The bad thing is "landscapes" - Why?
i kinda understand that its an ugly feature and all but is there more to it than that? Ive read that an overcast sky blows out other elements in a scene - but my thinking was that it wouldnt becasue the light is diffused? Im trying to understand why it is so "bad"?
And does it depend on the time of day? is an overcast sky better in the early morning than at midday ( that I would umderstand ).
windoze
so my understanding is that an overcast sky is a cloudy day, one with few breaks in the clouds. looks like a white canopy and produces a diffused light with few if any shadows.
This is good for portraits and colorful flowers and scenes that otherwise in full sun would produce areas of high contrast.
The bad thing is "landscapes" - Why?
i kinda understand that its an ugly feature and all but is there more to it than that? Ive read that an overcast sky blows out other elements in a scene - but my thinking was that it wouldnt becasue the light is diffused? Im trying to understand why it is so "bad"?
And does it depend on the time of day? is an overcast sky better in the early morning than at midday ( that I would umderstand ).
windoze
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Overcast days are great for shooting portraits, architectural details, macros, flowers - I love shooting on overcast days.
But you cannot include large portions of sky in landscape shooting on overcast days. The light is very diffuse, non-directional, and the shadow margins will be very soft on overcast days - scenes require three stops more light on days like this, compared to bright sunlight - but the sky will frequently be 3 stops brighter than the ground, thus if you expose for the foreground, the sky will will usually be totally blown out without detail.
Think of shooting with a subject lit by a softbox in the studio. The light is soft, diffuse, lovely, but if you include portions of the softbox itself, it will be totally overexposed and blown out also.
The clouds on an overcast day are your humongous softbox in sky. Don't include them unless you want them to appear white or a very light gray.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
well, i consider your advice to be truthful and informed. I think i now understand. it seems to me now that ive been studying a lot more about what goes into a great image i am more convinced that attention needs to be payed to things i never considered: weather, time of day and position of the sun. it is so true, how the time after sunrise and before sunset imparts an inviting warm glow to images. but I think what has most surprised me is understanding "where" to meter difficult exposures. I am very interested in knowing how you feel about Bryan Peterson's techniques for exposing dififcult images....
troy
I would like to see. No. I am going to Google and read about those Bryan Peterson's techniques for exposing difficult images, but I had this problem in Cambodia when I didn't know how to work very well with the 20 D.
As a matter of fact I still have much to learn after that time.
But I know that I could have exposed half to the sky and half to the ruins. That would give me a balance on both areas.
I should have used a CPF (Circular Polarizing Filter) which would soften a little those skies.
I had no time as I was in a group but I should have shot with bracketing and tripod.
But in the shots I made in India I had - on some days - the same problem. There, I was using sometimes the CPF and ... well this is another matter, a flash to balance the light. The flash was always attached to the camera.
I post here a photo of Cambodia and a photo of India.
In India I had another problem: the light was terribly hard, or harsh as you Americans say. The CPF was a most use.
At home I have stacked some photos from Cambodia because I was shooting RAW at the time. I am again and forever !:D
I hope you don't mind I post pictures here. If you do, please tell me and I will erase them.
I enjoy your photos too much to ever ask you to erase them. Please dont erase them and know that I am grateful for your post. I actually am happy that im not the only one who still struggles with difficult exposures.
What i have learned from Bryan is that if i want to take those great images sometimes it will involve me getting up earlier to catch the early morning sun or returning to a place to reshoot an image a few hourse before sunset even though my family has booked reservations for a fancy restaurant. The harsh midday sun is very challenging and quite frankly doesnt add much to images as i now realize. i am cureently sitting outside in a bright sunlight
looking at your images on a notebook computer with alot of glare so i hope i see them correctly but in the 1st image - the sky is not only a hindrance to a proper exposure but IMHO not even needed to convey the story behing this great image. I am certainly no expert but a more closer shot or more intimate crop of this image might actually add to the story. I still confuse when to use a CP or a GND but its use might definetly soften that sky.
Another suggestion Bryan might have given was to shoot from a lower position as he often does. As a matter of fact this suggection might add a unique perspective to an already unique image. I guess the idea, one that pathfinder seemed to sound also is that if you dont need that ugly sky - dont use it.
In that 2nd image - from what i can tell is that you have a sidelighting situation. What ive learned thats great about side light is that when caught with the right subjects adds another dimensionality to your subject whereas frontlit subjects seem to take on a two dimensional qualities, often sidelighting with its deep shadows gives your subject that extra punch! So maybe in the 2nd image i would have again gotten up closer and used a more shallow DOF ....
(Antonio, dont think I even know what Im talking about here - im just rambling with suggestions that might or might not even be appropriate)
troy
Troy. Good afternoon.
If this sentence means that it looks like you know what you are talking about and you don't, than apply that sentence to myself as I am always trying to learn and like Seneca I know that I know nothing.:D
I am just giving my opinions and thought like yourself.
I didn't tell you the truth in the other post. I was not shooting raw in Cambodia but I was in India. I went to look for the original file of the India's photo and I found, with surprise, only jpg.
I was going to re-do the photo because after all this time I might do a better job.
Not a change to try. I have only the jpg. I am sorry.:cry
I have nothing to add right now.
Tomorrow I am going to shoot an air show. In jpg ? Or in raw ? Huuummm... I have to decide but I think I'll do it in the latter format.
The weather is just glorious and I will be shooting the sky often.
I hope to do great pictures. How many am I going to shoot ?
I have to take my "war house" and use it !:D
Cheers.
Pathfinder did a great thread about using Sunny Rule f/16.... You should get some great pics with nice sunny blue skies.
good luck - have fun!
troy
I do have read that thread, that but not completely assimilate the hole thing.
I have to go and read again with more care.
Thank you. have a nice Sunday.
Troy, I am not sure I understand your question - I just pulled down my copy of Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Exposure" to see if I could understand what you were referring to as difficult exposures. I like his book a lot, but could not identify what were "difficult exposures".
Reflected light meters ( like in our cameras) ASSUME the scene they are metering are 18% neutral gray ( whether they are or not - and they frequently are NOT) and return a meter reading to render the image as a medium gray.
If you are shooting snow, and you use the routine meter reading, your snow will be gray. You need to add about + 1.66 to 2 stops more exposure to drive the snow from "gray" to white. Open up your aperture or slow your shutter speed.
Conversely, when shooting a black dog in a coal mine, you do not want to render the dog as gray, thus you must reduce the exposure by about -1.66- 2 stops to convert the "gray" to black as it should be seen. Stop down or use a faster shutter speed. One place this is really noticed is when shooting neon signs at night - I frequently have to use - 2 or even -3 stops to prevent over exposure for night scenes due to all the dark areas that the meter wants to render as gray.
In regard to overcast days - just think of the sky as a giant soft box - You usually do not want to image your softbox itself, just its light.
B Peterson recs strongly shooting in Manual Mode so that you have control of your exposure and I agree with this. He frequently does shoot in Av mode also though and I find I do to when I just need to choose the aperture and as long as the shutter speed is fast enough, don't really care how fast it is. Or how slow if I am on a tripod for instance.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I gather from reading your posts that you take a more professional approach to exposure. B. Peterson has some techniques that he recommends and its really those techniques / tips that Im referring to:
Examples of what I would call difficult situations to meter:
Steps to take after in Manual mode after first choosing the aperture or shutter speed for the desired "effect":
When metering for a sillhouette against a backlit sunset, meter the sky without the sun and then recompose and shoot,
When metering for a black subject with lots of grass / trees, meter off the "green" any medium green tone at a -2/3 exposure,
When metering on a sunny day, meter off the sky to properly expose whites and on a cloudy day meter using a grey card or off the palm of your hand ( calibrated against a grey card ) ,
When taking a picture at dusk, meter off the dusky blue sky to properly expose the scene,
When metering a sunset reflection off the water, meter the water to the side of the reflection then recompose and shoot,
When taking a landscape and the sky is more than 3 stops brighter than the ground use a .9 GND etc........ things like this... without regard for the histogram. He literally never looks at it.
troy
Taken from my back porch tonite just before it got dark.
Manfrotto Mono | Bag- LowePro Slingshot 100AW
http://www.graphyfotoz.smugmug.com/
I will remember this. Thanks.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I shot the sky on Sunday on the occasion of "Portugal Air Show 2007"
Shutter Priority (I was shooting the planes).