Portrait Help...

rwells

Ok, guys/gals

You may or may not know that I'm a rodeo photographer, but one thing I'm NOT is a portrait photog. I need to change that...

I've got monolights, umbrella's and the like, but at the present I'm trying to learn with a (2) 580EX setup. This will allow me the portability that I want to shoot head-shots at events, etc.

The following pic was shot with the two stated 580EX flashes. Aside from the chair that shouldn't be there, what do I need to do to make this better.
BTW, I don't like the two little catchlights that the two flashes make, so I deleted one and made the other larger, like from an umbrella.

Specifically: I notice that my portrait shots are extremely sharp - too sharp I think. In particular, every bump and wrinkle shows through like that's some kind of triumph. (And PLEASE don't tell my wife I said that!!!) I did apply some blur to this shot, so it's not like I just described.

How the heck do you people get those shots that are sharp, but they look soft? I see them all the time posted here. I'm hoping the magic answer is not a soft-box, cause I need to make this setup work.

Anyway, any and all help is much appreciated.

Scott_Quier

A softbox will not affect the sharpness of the image - it just softens the light a bit more.

I wouldn't worry about additional light modifiers. It would appear from this photo that you have it pretty well nailed.

What I have seen work is to take the photo just as sharp as you can make it. Then do some skin softening PP to reduce the ravages of time (though, as seen here, your wife doesn't need any of that sort of thing!). This will soften the image while leaving the eyes sharp - which MUST be tack sharp to make the image appear sharp.

If you will accept it, I might suggest you look a bit into your posing technique as well. Your wife is a little to square on to the camera, which tends to be not as flattering as other aspects. Giving her a little (and I do mean a little as there is such a thing as too much of a good thing here) head tilt will soften the impact as well.

Oh, and a little more separation between you model and the background would be a good thing.

System

Photoshop her - I like the pic. It's simple, honest and true. Brilliant. You don't have to be like everyone else.

rwells wrote:

Ok, guys/gals

You may or may not know that I'm a rodeo photographer, but one thing I'm


NOT is a portrait photog. I need to change that...

I've got monolights, umbrella's and the like, but at the present I'm trying to learn with a (2) 580EX setup. This will allow me the portability that I want to shoot head-shots at events, etc.

The following pic was shot with the two stated 580EX flashes. Aside from the chair that shouldn't be there, what do I need to do to make this better.
BTW, I don't like the two little catchlights that the two flashes make, so I deleted one and made the other larger, like from an umbrella.

Specifically: I notice that my portrait shots are extremely sharp - too sharp I think. In particular, every bump and wrinkle shows through like that's some kind of triumph. (And PLEASE don't tell my wife I said that!!!) I did apply some blur to this shot, so it's not like I just described.

How the heck do you people get those shots that are sharp, but they look soft? I see them all the time posted here. I'm hoping the magic answer is not a soft-box, cause I need to make this setup work.

Anyway, any and all help is much appreciated.

rwells

Scott_Quier wrote:

A softbox will not affect the sharpness of the image - it just softens the light a bit more.

I wouldn't worry about additional light modifiers. It would appear from this photo that you have it pretty well nailed.

What I have seen work is to take the photo just as sharp as you can make it. Then do some skin softening PP to reduce the ravages of time (though, as seen here, your wife doesn't need any of that sort of thing!). This will soften the image while leaving the eyes sharp - which MUST be tack sharp to make the image appear sharp.

If you will accept it, I might suggest you look a bit into your posing technique as well. Your wife is a little to square on to the camera, which tends to be not as flattering as other aspects. Giving her a little (and I do mean a little as there is such a thing as too much of a good thing here) head tilt will soften the impact as well.

Oh, and a little more separation between you model and the background would be a good thing.

Scott,

I like your work and value your opinion...

Posing subjects: I suck at this... I've read books, but this is just not a natural thing that my eye sees. I'm having an issue learning this.

What I'm finding also is that more mature subjects have more "character" lines to deal with. Everyone wants to look their best & trying to minimize those is proving a challenge for me. I may find it hard to compete for work if I can't produce on-site with my portable setup the results people expect in a studio.

I'm going after the real estate agents & hotel business conferences work. Most of these people are not young, therefore the issues stated above will have to be under control.

My poor wife --- She popped in for lunch and was instead once again turned into my model

OK, this shot is the same (2) 580EX setup as the previous picture, (notice this time I left the dual catchlights), I just put up a backdrop and adjusted the pose per your suggestions. (I think)

Tell me straight up --- Is this good enough in your opinion for my intended clients? ---- or ---- Do I still need major work?



Thanks so much for your time and effort.

rwells

d22 wrote:

Photoshop her - I like the pic. It's simple, honest and true. Brilliant. You don't have to be like everyone else.

d22,

Thanks for your comments, but I'm not sure I understand the first part...

"Photoshop her" --- please elaborate. I really want the input.

zacker

well the pic looks good, i dont like the black in the bg, down by her shoulders, its a distraction.. as far as your lighting goes, it looks good, try using a soft box or brollys, it will soften the lights and soften the lines in her skin. By PS'ing her i think he means give her a skin smoothing.. but you dont really want to erase the lines, its adds character to her pic.. id just try to even out her tones a bit, maybe add a touch more light in Photoshop.. i like it. I too shoot with small strobes ALA "the strobist" (google that and read up on it..youll be amazed.)
other than that, keep shooting, youre doing good, one more thing, Back ground.. keep them at least 4 feet away and either plain, one color or really blured.. (DOF) and youll be fine, no dont be afraid to get creative with your lighting.. like i said, check out the strobist blog and flickr group.. youll be glad you did.

Scott_Quier

rwells wrote:

Scott,

I like your work and value your opinion...

I'm flattered, especially as there are many here that are so much better IMHO than I am (urbanaries, photogmomma, Shay Stephens, just to name a few).

rwells wrote:

Posing subjects: I suck at this... I've read books, but this is just not a natural thing that my eye sees. I'm having an issue learning this.

I feel your pain

rwells wrote:

What I'm finding also is that more mature subjects have more "character" lines to deal with. Everyone wants to look their best & trying to minimize those is proving a challenge for me. I may find it hard to compete for work if I can't produce on-site with my portable setup the results people expect in a studio.

If this is your goal, I fear you are setting yourself up for failure. I don't see how anyone can do a "rush job on a portable setup" the quality work that can be done if one takes their time in the PP.

rwells wrote:

I'm going after the real estate agents & hotel business conferences work. Most of these people are not young, therefore the issues stated above will have to be under control.

My poor wife --- She popped in for lunch and was instead once again turned into my model

OK, this shot is the same (2) 580EX setup as the previous picture, (notice this time I left the dual catchlights), I just put up a backdrop and adjusted the pose per your suggestions. (I think)

Tell me straight up --- Is this good enough in your opinion for my intended clients? ---- or ---- Do I still need major work?

Thanks so much for your time and effort.

Por Nada! This shot is very nice and I think it would score with your intended demographic. But, I don't think your wife is representative of your intended target - she's a far cry from having to deal with the issues you outlined above.

Some things to keep in mind. If you your model is dark haired, you will need to find a way to separate his/her hair from the background. Consider moving your secondary flash to about 180 degrees from the first, raise it quite high, and throttle back the power a bit - aim it so that it kisses the top or edge of the hair. Get a reflector and position it quite close to your subject at about 90 degrees from your key light (this would put it camera left) to fill the shadows that would be left by moving the second light as I suggest above.

Or, you can get a lighter backdrop - that will provide the separation.

FWIW: The head-tilt; traditionally, a "feminine" tilt is toward the should that appears highest in the photograph and the more masculine is toward the lower shoulder.

rwells

zacker wrote:

well the pic looks good, i dont like the black in the bg, down by her shoulders, its a distraction.. as far as your lighting goes, it looks good, try using a soft box or brollys, it will soften the lights and soften the lines in her skin. By PS'ing her i think he means give her a skin smoothing.. but you dont really want to erase the lines, its adds character to her pic.. id just try to even out her tones a bit, maybe add a touch more light in Photoshop.. i like it. I too shoot with small strobes ALA "the strobist" (google that and read up on it..youll be amazed.)
other than that, keep shooting, youre doing good, one more thing, Back ground.. keep them at least 4 feet away and either plain, one color or really blured.. (DOF) and youll be fine, no dont be afraid to get creative with your lighting.. like i said, check out the strobist blog and flickr group.. youll be glad you did.

Thanks for the input zacker...

Background...hmmm

I don't have any "real" backgrounds yet as I'm still trying to get this down to decide if I can pursue this avenue or not. I know that it would look better with a background light for separation, but I don't have (3) 580Ex's. BTW, she was right at about 4' from the black bg.

What is your suggestion? I also want to keep my setup as simple as possible. What would be the best background to use with only (2) lights?

Yeah, I read the Strobist pretty regularly.

zacker

seriously? a white wall...

or better yet, stand her in a corner with one white wall about 4 foot behind her and another white wall about 3 feet on her side.. shoot with one strobe either in a soft box or umbrella (brolly) opposite the white wall, almost shooting into the corner, have her looking forward so the light is lighting her from an angle. now letting the light bounce off the wall and the wall acting as a giant reflector should give you a nice dramatic lighting effect. try adjusting the lights position froward or backward (from the rear wall) for different angles and lighting effects. This is an old strobist trick for great shots with one strobe.. now you can also pop your extra strobe behind her pointing at the wall for some back lighting.

zacker

rwells wrote:

Thanks for the input zacker...

Background...hmmm

BTW, she was right at about 4' from the black bg.

.

incase youre wondering, i was referring to the black in the first pic.. the second pic with Black BG is fine..

rwells

Scott_Quier wrote:

Or, you can get a lighter backdrop - that will provide the separation.

FWIW: The head-tilt; traditionally, a "feminine" tilt is toward the should that appears highest in the photograph and the more masculine is toward the lower shoulder.

Thanks for the in-depth response.


Well, there you have it! I knew I had a 50/50 chance on which way to tilt her head... I hope she doesn't grow a mustache now

Scott, point well taken on the bg, but I'm not sure you understand my (2) 580EX setup.

While one light (Key) is on a stand, the fill light is on the camera. This apparently works out fairly well as the pics show, but limits my fill placement. I can however do something about the "hair-light" with a reflector. I'll start experimenting with that.

I'm on a pretty fast pace with this and I wanted to try and iron out the lighting first, then tackle the bg and composition.

I think with great input from y'all and more experimentation, I might just get this down soon.

I probably misstated my goal. I understand that I can't match a good studio environment on-site, but what I meant was still produce a quality product. I don't think these have to be "Glamor Shots", but they do need to be decent.

rwells

zacker wrote:

seriously? a white wall...

or better yet, stand her in a corner with one white wall about 4 foot behind her and another white wall about 3 feet on her side.. shoot with one strobe either in a soft box or umbrella (brolly) opposite the white wall, almost shooting into the corner, have her looking forward so the light is lighting her from an angle. now letting the light bounce off the wall and the wall acting as a giant reflector should give you a nice dramatic lighting effect. try adjusting the lights position froward or backward (from the rear wall) for different angles and lighting effects. This is an old strobist trick for great shots with one strobe.. now you can also pop your extra strobe behind her pointing at the wall for some back lighting.

Zacker, thank you for your time and expertise...

I am aware of the corner setup you describe & I can do that if there is a white wall/corner available on-site. What I would like is to make sure that no matter what the building does or doesn't provide, I'll be able to produce a good product with what I carry in if necessary.

I also am not using the normal Strobist setup. Mine is the key light is on a stand & the fill is on the camera. This allows the full use of Canon's excellent ETTL-II system, and also I don't have to mess with making the PW's work with the speedlights.

I understand this setup may not be the optimum, but my initial goal it to try to make it work for my needs. Time will tell whether or not I'll have to go to the normal Strobist setup.

If interested, here is a link to the setup that I'm using:
Chuck Gardner -- http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

Anyway, just wanted to let you understand that I'm having to do things a "little" different due to the above.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and input.

zacker

I see..... that looks good but it realy doesnt help much in the way of creativity.. having the one light coming from the front is kinda taking over the scene.. unless you can turn it sideways and bounce it off a reflector or something like that. I know what you mean, keeping the Ettl is nice for gunning and running when you only have a short time or alot of subjects.. start saving for the St-e2 and use that.. it works well supposedly. You can stil get some great results with what your using, I would suggest trying a bunch of different configurations.. might try throwing a colored gel on the light on the stand to add effect to your portraits.. might look cool.

Scott_Quier

Scott, point well taken on the bg, but I'm not sure you understand my (2) 580EX setup.

You're right, I didn't keep in mind your flash setup. I'm so used to working with my AB800 in studio setting that I don't think about the communication issues inherent with the Speedlights.

If you want to stay with ETTL, then like zacker says, you might want to acquire the ST-E2. This will allow you take both flashes off-camera and still maintain the ETTL. I've heard though that there needs to be line of sight between the ST-E2 and the flashes. The signal, however, can be bounced off walls if they are not too far from either the flash or the ST-E2.