40D Initial Impressions and Noise Tests

drdane

I was holding off posting this -waiting for a Canon tech to get back to me on some noise reduction test images I emailed him 2 weeks ago! G-r-r-r-r-r! Just called and his cohort promised I would hear back tonight - we'll see.

Anyway, I LOVE this camera! Please bear in mind that I stepped up from the original 300D Rebel I've been using for the last 4 years, so I'm easily impressed:D !

You're gonna love the screen, Saurora! My eyes aren't great at small close things anymore, and the menu comes in Reader's Digest Large Print!:barb I don't even need my reading glasses to make out what it says. The downside of the larger screen is that it's hard to keep it from getting greased by my nose when I'm oogling through the view finder - but I can live with that:D .

It feels hefty, solid and sm-o-o-o-th. Everything that moves feels well-made, with the exception of the CF door, which feels like it's a bit light for the number of times I'm gonna be using it. The shutter has a nice sound to it, for what it's worth.

I don't know if the earlier models had this feature, but I really like the in-camera flash control, which offers a 4-stop range. I know it works with the Flash Exp Lock (using whatever meter mode you have dialed in), but I don't know if it works without FEL.

The mirror lock-up works great, but the command is buried under the custom function menu. You can get around this by incorporating six of your most-used functions under the last menu heading on the right (My Menu - pg 164 in the manual). I can't find my manual at the moment, but I think that is correct.

NOISE TESTS
One of my main reasons for upgrading was to have less noise than the old Rebel, and that was the first thing I tested. I shot an OOF gray card with both cameras during daylight hours at each ISO, processed them identically, and compared the two. Fortunately, the 40D was the undisputed champ, with somewhere around 50-70% less bad stuff than the 300D. The effect was very noticable from 400 ISO on up.

I also wanted to find out what the 40D noise reduction would do. More OOF gray cards, in poor light this time. There are two types of NR: Long Exposure, and High ISO. For each type, I shot a set of images without, and a set with the respective NR feature turned on, and compared.

The Long Exp NR helped significantly, and is most noticable from about 4 minutes and up.

The High ISO NR (on my camera, at least) did absolutely nothing! I repeated this several times and got the same result. This is what I'm awaiting word on from Canon - I want to see if theirs does it, too - and what they're going to do about mine.

The downside of the NR function is that it takes a time equal to your exposure time to process the darn image! So if you have a 20 min exposure, like I did - shooting star-trails, you're gonna hafta be VERY patient if you want to take the shot, and you won't be able to take very many. I didn't know this when I tried it, and was scratching my head while the little light was burning for 20 min after my shot! It wasn't mentioned in the manual (B-O-O-O-O!). A friend later confirmed that, yes, the 5D does this, too.

THE KIT LENS
I'm happy with the lens so far - no rattles, and it hasn't once fallen off the camera. For $200 it was a fine upgrade from my measly 18-55 Rebel kit lens, which did rattle, but to be fair, it never fell off the camera, either! I haven't got around to testing lens sharpness other than by taking pictures, and I'm happy with what I've seen so far.

I'll post a photo later if anyone is interested - looks like I'll have to reboot to get Inet Explorer to work, which is the only way I can access my site - but that's another story.

I hope this is helpful, and I will follow up on the High ISO NR thing when I hear anything useful from Canon. Oh, yeah, if anyone lucky enough to have one of these in their hot little hands would be willing to test the High ISO NR themselves, I'd appreciate hearing what you find, and maybe Canon would as well.

Blessings,
Dane

Nikolai

drdane wrote:

I was holding off posting this -waiting for a Canon tech to get back to me on some noise reduction test images I emailed him 2 weeks ago!

Are there pictures?

kdog

drdane wrote:

I was holding off posting this -waiting for a Canon tech to get back to me on some noise reduction test images I emailed him 2 weeks ago!

Please elaborate. Are you having a problem with a 40D, a Canon tech, some noise reduction s/w, or what?

drdane

kdog wrote:

Please elaborate. Are you having a problem with a 40D, a Canon tech, some noise reduction s/w, or what?

My apology! I accidently hit the wrong button and posted the thing after the second line - sorry for the cliff-hanger! Didn't realize you all were waiting to pounce!

And yes, Nik, I'll post some pics later this evening!:D

Dane

drdane

Some 40D Pics
This is a two exposure composite (the 40D dynamic range isn't THAT good). The two base images were taken with the 28-135, at 33mm. The resulting moon and venus were too small for my taste (and blurred from a 20sec exp), so I also took separate shots of them with the lens at 135mm (0.5 sec @ 100ISO, f5.6). These were reduced 10 or 20% (I forget which) and added over the originals.




Here's another composite, from the LPS - moon, starry background and buddha all taken with the 40D with kit lens. (As far as I can tell, Smug adds contrast to the image when it's posted, because there are many more stars and better shadow detail in the version on my computer).




This is a crop out of the 3888x2592 px original. Star trails: 25 min @ f3.5, ISO400, 28mm. Mild sharpening and moderate contrast added in PS, but NO noise reduction in PS. Both NR functions were turned on in the camera, which required an additional 25min process time before I could take another shot. As I mentioned in my recent 40D Impressions post, the long exposure NR seems to work pretty well, but the high ISO NR function does nothing that I can see in comparative images. I would call this a decent noise level for a 25min exposure with contrast added. What would you say?



I can post some "more regular" images if people would like to see more examples. Maybe the most useful thing is to interpolate up to large size, then crop out of that at the center and edges of a relatively flat scene . . .
I'm open to suggestions, though time is limited these days, as my mother is not doing well health-wise.

Nik, I'm looking forward to seeing some of your shots, and sherstone, too, when Santa arrives.:D

Blessings,
Dane

salazar

Hey, drdane, I've been waiting since your post on Sep-09-2007, 11:02 PM to hear what you thought of the 40D. You were one of the first I noticed on dgrin to get one in your hands. Thanks for this evening's posts. I'll admit you had me a bit panicked there with your short premature post earlier this evening but after reading the full version I'm not worried any more. Mine's been on order from the local shop for a week now, I hope to see it soon. Thanks again for taking the time to post.

PS: Is there an explanation of / or tutorial on how you did your noise reduction test/processing somewhere out on dgrin?

drdane

Noise Testing Your Digital Camera

salazar wrote:

Hey, drdane, I've been waiting since your post on Sep-09-2007, 11:02 PM to hear what you thought of the 40D. You were one of the first I noticed on dgrin to get one in your hands. . . . Thanks again for taking the time to post.

Hi, Salazar

It was your earlier post (mentioning Nik and myself) that prompted me to go ahead with the post instead of waiting for Canon's tech to get back to me. Feels good to get it done, actually, and you are very welcome!

PS: Is there an explanation of / or tutorial on how you did your noise reduction test/processing somewhere out on dgrin?

I mentioned some basic parameters in post 91 above, and I will add more detail here since you asked.

I'd asuggest you take notes on your setup, because it's so easy to forget, at least for me.

To compare the two cameras
I shot an "18%" standard gray card, up pretty close with a mild tele lens set at infinity - a white piece of paper would work as well. You could also shoot empty blue sky, with the focus set up close. The idea was to eliminate any texture or detail in the image, so that whatever showed up could be assumed to be from the camera itself. I adjusted f stop and time so I could work up through the ISO range on each camera. I used the same lens on both cameras, but I don't know that it matters much.

To test Long Exposure Noise Reduction
Shoot a gray card or something similar as mentioned above, but keep it to neutral or darker tones. Since it will be long exposures, you'll need a constant light source, and not too bright. At one point, I had a regular tungston lamp all covered up in the corner to get it dark enough to go beyond 2 minutes.

Since the camera will only show exposure times up to 30 seconds, you'll need to use "bulb" after that, which means a remote switch that will allow that function. If you have a 20 or 30D, you probably have that covered. The one from a Rebel is different. I got mine from an ebay store called Satechi for a measly $23, including shipping, from LA, I think. Not a Canon, but about 1/3 the price. Considering how easily I lose those things, I won't cringe when this one disappears!

Take the shots at 100 ISO, so you can see the effects of long exposure without adding extra noise from High ISO - besides, you'll need a low ISO to get up there in time. I was at f14 at 30 seconds, so I had to darken the room further before I ran out of f stops. You'll need to calculate the bulb times based on your exposure in the vicinity of 30 sec. - doubling the time for each full f-stop. A 2 or 3 stop ND filter might be helpful here. I set a timer to come back in and end the exposure.

Once you've got your shots with NR off, repeat the series with Long Exp NR turned on. Remember, it will take the camera as long as the exposure was to process the shot when NR is turned on. Don't ask me what it's doing in there that takes so long, cause I don't know!

High ISO NR Testing
This is much quicker and easier. You can set up a gray card in the shade, or in a room with window light, or a photo flood. You just need an exposure range to get up to 1600 ISO. You can even go up to 3200, but when this option is enabled, 200 ISO becomes your minimum.

Again, take a series up through your ISO range without NR, then repeat the set with High ISO NR turned on. Remember to throw the lens out of focus.

So, that is what I did. Others may have better suggestions - if so, I'd like to hear them, as I'll probably do this again sometime.

Regarding processing, adding some contrast and saturation (probably in the range you would typically use anyway) will make the noise more obvious. I shot most of mine in sRAW, then opened them with Canon Digital Professional (included with the camera) - Photoshop cannot open sRAW files as yet. It would have been easier to use the "Neutral" PhotoStyle JPG (it's settings are all 0's).

This should get you started! I'd appreciate hearing of your findings, especially on the High ISO NR function.

Blessings,
Dane

Bendr

drdane wrote:

This should get you started! I'd appreciate hearing of your findings, especially on the High ISO NR function.

I think I recall reading in a review that it helped mostly to reduce color noise.

Here:
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_40D_review_3.html
under the heading "40D ISO and noise vs. 20D"

I will also try to test mine if I get a chance before I leave...

Thanks,
Ben

drdane

Bendr wrote:

I think I recall reading in a review that it helped mostly to reduce color noise.

Here:
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_40D_review_3.html
under the heading "40D ISO and noise vs. 20D"

I will also try to test mine if I get a chance before I leave...

Thanks,
Ben

Thanks, Ben - there was some useful info there. Looks like I might have a High ISO NR that doesn't work . . . Thankfully, it seems that everything else does.

Blessings,
Dane

ziggy53

Dr Dane,

Yes I also think this topic "deserves" its own thread, and thank you so much for providing the testing and review. I know these things take time to do, so I really appreciate the effort.

drdane

ziggy53 wrote:

Dr Dane,

Yes I also think this topic "deserves" its own thread, and thank you so much for providing the testing and review. I know these things take time to do, so I really appreciate the effort.

Thanks for moving the thread, Ziggy!

drdane

Canon Tech: High ISO NR Update
Talked with a tech last night who seemed pretty knowledgable. Apparently they tried to contact me, but got blocked by the Qwest security screen, which won't pass unidentified calls, which their system generates.

His take on the NR tests was that using a graycard works fime for the Long Exp NR test, but that the High ISO function works differently, and requires an image with varied tones and colors. There are tests like this on the Bob Atkins site that bendr suggested, along with many other tests which appear to be well done and documented. Here is his 40D Review start page: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_40D_review_1.html

I am heading out for a few days in an attempt to catch some Aspen color in the high desert mountains of Eastern Oregon, with my new toy of course, and will post my re-test of the High ISO NR this weekend.

The tech wasn't wild about the capability of the High ISO NR function, and didn't use it himself, as it does slow the camera down a bit, and in his opinion didn't work as well as computer-based NR software like Noise Ninja.

Blessings,
Dane