Another Beach Shoot

DavidS

I did a shoot at the beach last weekend for my wife's boss and his family and his brother in laws family. I have a lot to learn. The backgrounds came out too dark or too light depending upon whether I was shooting towards the sun or away from the sun. I think I need to do +1 EV when shooting away from the sun and -1 EV when shooting into the sun. What is the best way to brighten or darken the backgrounds in PP without affecting the subject?

I ordered a reflector online tonight to bounce light back into the backlit and sidelit shots the next time. I also order a CTO gel to use on my flash the next time.

I started shooting 1.5 hours before sunset and they were worn out after 1 hour so we missed some of the best light. I think I will only allow 1 hour for my next shoot.

Do my shots have too much flash this time? I dialed the flash EV down by -2/3. I don't have a good eye for this yet.

I did remember to leave enough room to crop the shots for larger prints this time and although I forgot about the horizon intersecting the heads I got lucky on almost all of the shots.

C&C is welcome and appreciated. (12 Photos)

1.


2.


3.


4.
I know this breaks the rule of thirds, but I thought it looked best centered.


5.


6.


7.


8.


9.


10.


11.


12.

jeffreaux2

OK David, I am going to try my best to give you a very thorough critique....I think that is what you want anyway.

First, these are very very much improved from your first attempt, and as a whole are very well done. Very.

1. Lighting is as near perfect as I have seen. The only thing that I can pick is that the WB is maybe too perfect, and IMO it could use a tiny bit of warmth. The skin tones look pretty good to me, but the whites are too perfect? It almost looks like it was set up in a studio.

2 & 3 I like these compositions better than in 1, but again feel they could be warmed up some. 3 looks put on a little. It might be better in a group with kids to let the kids be kids. Maybe the adults are talking to one another and the kids are doodling with sticks or fingers in the sand?

4. DUD doesn't do anything at all for me.....sorry!

5. VERY VERY nice. Great grouping and exposure...but I would like to see a little warmth here too. This is a really good group shot.

6 HIS skin looks red- ish, and has a couple hot spots on nose and cheek. I say lose the red and warm it up. Nice shot.

7 I wish it had more warmth in the whites, but I doubt I would touch it if I took it. This is another very good shot and looks much more natural than number 3. Anyone here would be proud to have this in their porfolio.

8 I don't really care for this one. Older sis looks left out.

9 Looks pretty flashy to me, and I don't think this pose does your location, or subjects justice. RELAX you are all at the beach!!!

10 Beautiful....see the warmth I wanted to see on the rock behind her!!! YES!!!( alittle red in the cheeks?)

11 Toss it, your shadow is all over the place. no good.....sorry!!! ( and dangit this was the warm one!!)

12. This has possibilities. OK as is.....would have been real interesting if you had backed off a bit, put dad's back very near the right edge, and given the kid some negative space in the frame to be walking into. I think the concept was a good idea, but the son really needs some walking room in front of him. I like the warmth of this one.

All in all, you ought to be pleased with your work. I would be. I tried to give it to you straight and be pretty picky, but at the end of the day these are only my opinion, and I am sure others will chime in with theirs. This is the best set I have seen you post. BRAVO!!!!

Afterthought....Have you tried any of these as BW or sepia? Played with vignettes? Cross process in PS? These would be a blast to experiment with in photoshop or lightroom. (why don't I have a beach nearby?)

DavidS

Jeff,

I can't say how much I appreciate your detailed critique. It means a lot coming from you. I respect your work. I have been looking at everyone elses photos and was feeling very discouraged about my work. I know I have a long way to go, but that encouraged me a little.

You don't feel the backgrounds were too light or too dark on some of them?

I used a whibal card and tweaked them a little in PP. I see what you mean about needing warmth.

Thanks

Elaine

I think Jeff's points were very well made and I agree! I also agree that these are a big improvement over your first beach set. I really like 1, 5, 6, 7, 10. Your backgrounds don't strike me as too dark or light. I think some subtle vignetting would be a nice finishing touch. Very nice job!!

jeffreaux2

DavidS wrote:

Jeff,

I can't say how much I appreciate your detailed critique. It means a lot coming from you. I respect your work. I have been looking at everyone elses photos and was feeling very discouraged about my work. I know I have a long way to go, but that encouraged me a little.

You don't feel the backgrounds were too light or too dark on some of them?

I used a whibal card and tweaked them a little in PP. I see what you mean about needing warmth.

Thanks

I think the BG is fine in all but the one of the couple that looked so stiffly posed. The flash was too strong here, and BG too dark. Doesnt look naturally lit whatsoever. The balance looked convincing on the others. I think the BG and sky is fine in everything else. You captured cloud detail which we all know is tough in a portrait. Of course, I am no hater of blown BGs as long as the subject is right, but these are very well balanced.

Pixel Popper

You know, I'm not one who has enough technical expertise to comment on the fill flash levels, so I'll leave that to those who do. Over all, I think this is a very nice shoot of which you should be proud.

The two points I would make have to do with the backgrounds you asked about, and composition.

As for the backgrounds, the lightness of them doesn't concern me, although if they were mine, I would see what I could do to attain a little more contrast in the colors behind the subjects. Not that the background needs to be darker, but perhaps more saturated.

Secondly, in terms of the composition, my personal opinion is that a face in absolute profile is not the strongest choice a photographer could make. To be sure, they don't need to be looking dead straight into the lens. Their angle away from the camera can be extreme and still be effective, but the general rule of thumb I try to follow is no matter how far their face is turned, try to at least include a view of both eyes instead of just one eye.

Of course, rules are meant to be broken, and I'm sure people can show you a million examples of how shots in absolute profile can be powerful imagery. I'm just saying, for my taste, there could be a stronger visual choice made than profile.

Keep up the good work, and I join the others in looking forward to more of your posts!

jeffreaux2

Pixel Popper wrote:

Secondly, in terms of the composition, my personal opinion is that a face in absolute profile is not the strongest choice a photographer could make. To be sure, they don't need to be looking dead straight into the lens. Their angle away from the camera can be extreme and still be effective, but the general rule of thumb I try to follow is no matter how far their face is turned, try to at least include a view of both eyes instead of just one eye.

I partly agree with this, but I do not think it very important in one of your profile shots. That is the one with the son walking away from Dad. I still believe with a little more space on the left it could have been a very classic type PJ photo.

DavidS

Thanks Elaine for the nice words, comments and tip. I will try a vignette on some.

Thanks Howard for the nice words and advice. I will be mindful of the profiles next time.

Thanks Jeff for taking the time to comment again.

saurora

David these are super! Much better than your last post. I agree 100 percent with Jeff's commentary, so I won't repeat except to say to definitely warm these up. Regarding the background, not all will agree, but I prefer the ocean to be 'subtle' for the most part. Sometimes the color of the ocean can be too bold and overpowers your subjects. To me these are fine. One thing you mentioned was the time spent shooting. I ran into exactly the same thing on my last beach shoot. Got there too early and the couple ran out of steam by the time the 'good light' was coming. Next time for sure, I won't get started until shortly before the light hits right. For #12 you could extend your canvas on the left and clone the water and sand to give the little boy some breathing room. Water and sand are pretty easy to clone. The only time I noticed your flash was in #9, so you did well in that dept. One other thing I would mention is to try to get your subjects to have a little fun and relax more. Toes in the water....drawing with sticks in the sand...try to make them forget you are there. Usually once they get started and just enjoy the experience of being there, you can capture some treasured moments. So add 'sticks' to your gear supply...haha. Over all very, very nice!

Icebear

Nice Work
I won't repeat the good CC by others, and I really like the work. I do think though that many of the shots look a tad oversharpened.

DavidS

Thanks Saurora and Icebear for taking the time to look. I appreciate your kind words and helpful advice.

I will try cloning the sand and water in that picture Saurora. I had not thought of that. Thanks. I agree about capturing them having more fun. They wanted to have posed shots, so that is what I focused on. Hopefully the next family I shoot will want some of both the PJ style shots as well as posed. I have a lot to learn.

I use i2e for my sharpening as well as helping with skin tones Icebear. I will cut the sharpening back a tad.

DavidS

I warmed one up a bit. How does it look? Is it too much to little or about right?

jeffreaux2

DavidS wrote:

I warmed one up a bit. How does it look? Is it too much to little or about right?

I like it better, but the warmth (like many other things) is subjective. I just think it looks more natural, and could possible take some more. Also, you have a lot of light colors as well as white in the frame, so the histogram is probably heavy to the right. At the risk of over doing some areas, you might could really make these POP.

I have had mixed feelings when using a white card and CWB on my Canon( not sure what you use). The whites usually are stark white, yet too cool for my tastes in my experience. It still helps to get a good baseline, but I am constantly warming temperatures up to try to match my memory of the light and tones at the location.

If you'd like, I would be willing to give a PP example.

DavidS

Here is some warm and a bit more contrast. I use the Whibal card and auto white balance. In PP I use the whibal as a reference. I'm still getting the hang of white balance. Adding warmth scares me, so I probably error on the side of making my images to cool. I do agree that to some extent it is a matter of taste. Did I overdo this one?

ziggy53

DavidS wrote:

Here is some warm and a bit more contrast. I use the Whibal card and auto white balance. In PP I use the whibal as a reference. I'm still getting the hang of white balance. Adding warmth scares me, so I probably error on the side of making my images to cool. I do agree that to some extent it is a matter of taste. Did I overdo this one?

FWIW, I love the flesh tones on this version, but I think the contrast is a now too high for the kids, although I like the contrast of the rocks better.

A very nice set overall. Quite a few "picture postcards" in the bunch.

Mitchell

David, nice job with these. I too prefer the warmer version. White balance at the beach is such a PITA for me because of the ever changing lighting. I tend to set the WB for each photo with the eyedropper tool in ACR.

I think you did a nice job with most of these poses. I particularly like the one of the family walking towards you. I have great luck with that technique also. Most people love it.

Well done!

DavidS

jeffreaux2 wrote:

I like it better, but the warmth (like many other things) is subjective. I just think it looks more natural, and could possible take some more. Also, you have a lot of light colors as well as white in the frame, so the histogram is probably heavy to the right. At the risk of over doing some areas, you might could really make these POP.

I have had mixed feelings when using a white card and CWB on my Canon( not sure what you use). The whites usually are stark white, yet too cool for my tastes in my experience. It still helps to get a good baseline, but I am constantly warming temperatures up to try to match my memory of the light and tones at the location.

If you'd like, I would be willing to give a PP example.

Jeff,

I would love a PP example. I overlooked that offer the first time I read your post. I am out of town on an uncalibrated moniter, so I won't be able to see the true result until Friday.

DavidS

Thanks for the nice words and advice Ziggy and Mitchell.

jeffreaux2

DavidS wrote:

Jeff,

I would love a PP example. I overlooked that offer the first time I read your post. I am out of town on an uncalibrated moniter, so I won't be able to see the true result until Friday.

Well, not many pixels to work with on my end. I still think the skin tones look a tad red on the adults, but I added a ton of warmth.

DavidS

Thanks Jeff. I can't wait to see it on a calibrated moniter. The moniter here is terrible.

Cuties02q

I really like #6 & #7 beautiful!

urbanaries

Beautiful series David!!! I think you have some great feedback in this thread, however I feel you have come a long way and am really impressed with this set! The colors and beach setting are wonderful, and you captured some great interaction between the family. clap

DavidS

Cuties02q wrote:

I really like #6 & #7 beautiful!

Thank you Stephanie. I really appreciate your feedback.

DavidS

urbanaries wrote:

Beautiful series David!!! I think you have some great feedback in this thread, however I feel you have come a long way and am really impressed with this set! The colors and beach setting are wonderful, and you captured some great interaction between the family. clap

Thanks Lynne. That is encouraging to hear that from you. You do some awesome work.

Mrs F

I just wanted to chime in that I agree you've received excellent feed back and I love this set. It's really beautifully done. Wow, I'd like to get lighting and skin tones that are half as nice as these.

Kari