Critiques Requested!!

KED

I am new here, and relatively new to a serious obsession with sports photography. I have quality gear that enables me to shoot mad bursts, but I seem to end up with lots of shots that are not well focused; this just came to my attention when I ordered prints of some of my shots with disappointing results. Most recently, as in the shots on my smugmug site, I have been using two selected AF points, but the results have been mixed at best. I've put in an interim fix to expand AF to up to 13 points surrounding one main point and faster AI Servo, but woud appreciate any insight on what I am generally doing wrong.

Y'all are fantastic. Thank you.

kuzzy

Just a quick observation. I looked at a few of your shots ( I do not have time to look at the whole slide show, IMO if you want critiques it would be easier if we could change to one of the other formats) and you seem to be focusing on the ball and not the players. With no camera or lens info it is hard to say much of anything else. Try to watch the players more and focus on their faces.

sirsloop

I briefly looked at the galleries, but just based on what you wrote I think I have a pretty good idea whats going on. In order to fix the problem, first thing you need to do it turn off multi shot mode and get the camera in single shot. Yes yes, I know that 8fps looks great on paper and you want to use it, but you can't see what the heck is going on when the mirror is up. Next, turn off all of those crazy AF points and use just the center dot (I know... you paid for all 45 and want to use those too!). If you are shooting something where the target is off the side maybe setup just a couple of the points on the middle line. Use like..idk... 3 maximum.

Time to shoot...

Now looking through the camera just remember that you only have one shot. Look through the viewfinder and acquire your target. If this is a soccer player watch the player and prepare yourself for taking the shot. This may mean watching them for just a second to see what they are gonna do. If they are running down the field with the ball, concentrate on keeping that AF dot on their body, and watch for any signs that they are going to do something like kick the ball, get tackled, etc. Now this is the part where I think you are having problems. Instead of pressing the 8fps button down at the first sign of anything and hoping for a good photo, actually watch the player and time the shot with the action. There should be no question to you on if the shot was in focus because you saw it in focus an instant before the shot was taken.

By using single shot you are going to force yourself to concentrate on the action. Its going to help you predict the shot. After a while, you will see movements that you know make good photos. Experiment shooting different movements and see what you like best. I shoot horses and have "bread and butter" shots that I can nail all day long (using single shot, 1 center AF dot, and AI Servo). After getting those shots I play around a little and try to get something different.

By using only a few AF points you will force yourself to keep an eye on where the AF point is and if you are in focus. By using a lot of AF points you are allowing the camera to decide what is in focus. In a lot of cases there is stuff in the shot that can throw off AF. Something high contrast in the background may look juicy to the AF sensor and it'll jump over to it. In soccer terms there may be a player with a ball and a defender behind chasing him. Who is the camera going to pick for AF? Use few AF points, get the dot on the target, and you'll be set.

Try it out for a little while! I guarantee if you use single shot with fewer AF points you will have a MUCH higher keeper ratio. At first it may be tough to get the timing down, but that will improve with seat time. Try to stop relying on the camera to do your part. That camera has a nice big/bright viewfinder and blazing fast AF. Use it! After you are able to get great shots using single shot, then turn multishot or all/some of the 45 AF points back on where needed. After shooting as described above, you will know when you actually need those features too! Best of luck! thumb

KED

sirsloop wrote:

I briefly looked at the galleries, but just based on what you wrote I think I have a pretty good idea whats going on. In order to fix the problem, first thing you need to do it turn off multi shot mode and get the camera in single shot. Yes yes, I know that 8fps looks great on paper and you want to use it, but you can't see what the heck is going on when the mirror is up. Next, turn off all of those crazy AF points and use just the center dot (I know... you paid for all 45 and want to use those too!). If you are shooting something where the target is off the side maybe setup just a couple of the points on the middle line. Use like..idk... 3 maximum.

Time to shoot...

Now looking through the camera just remember that you only have one shot. Look through the viewfinder and acquire your target. If this is a soccer player watch the player and prepare yourself for taking the shot. This may mean watching them for just a second to see what they are gonna do. If they are running down the field with the ball, concentrate on keeping that AF dot on their body, and watch for any signs that they are going to do something like kick the ball, get tackled, etc. Now this is the part where I think you are having problems. Instead of pressing the 8fps button down at the first sign of anything and hoping for a good photo, actually watch the player and time the shot with the action. There should be no question to you on if the shot was in focus because you saw it in focus an instant before the shot was taken.

By using single shot you are going to force yourself to concentrate on the action. Its going to help you predict the shot. After a while, you will see movements that you know make good photos. Experiment shooting different movements and see what you like best. I shoot horses and have "bread and butter" shots that I can nail all day long (using single shot, 1 center AF dot, and AI Servo). After getting those shots I play around a little and try to get something different.

By using only a few AF points you will force yourself to keep an eye on where the AF point is and if you are in focus. By using a lot of AF points you are allowing the camera to decide what is in focus. In a lot of cases there is stuff in the shot that can throw off AF. Something high contrast in the background may look juicy to the AF sensor and it'll jump over to it. In soccer terms there may be a player with a ball and a defender behind chasing him. Who is the camera going to pick for AF? Use few AF points, get the dot on the target, and you'll be set.

Try it out for a little while! I guarantee if you use single shot with fewer AF points you will have a MUCH higher keeper ratio. At first it may be tough to get the timing down, but that will improve with seat time. Try to stop relying on the camera to do your part. That camera has a nice big/bright viewfinder and blazing fast AF. Use it! After you are able to get great shots using single shot, then turn multishot or all/some of the 45 AF points back on where needed. After shooting as described above, you will know when you actually need those features too! Best of luck! thumb

Thank you so much for taking the time (a) to look and (b) to provide this very thoughtful and very helpful reply. Believe it or not, those shots were all taken using only 2 AF points. but I've dropped it down to one now for this weekend, with the custom setting that lets the camera expand to 7 if it needs to. I will [gulp] try single shot!

JohnEBongo

Hey KED, that is some great advice from Sirsloop!! The only thing I would say different is to not spend too much time in single shot mode. You dropped some serious coin to be able to shoot at 8 fps, so go ahead and use it. You can learn how to anticipate and learn how to recognize when something is about happen just as easily in multi shot mode. I am not advocating "spray and pray", but if you anticipate well, fire off a quick burst(doesn't have to 8-10 shots, but can be 4-5) you have a better chance of capturing THE peak action shot, IMHO.

OK, now to shooting: As Sirsloop said, use the center AF point and plant it right in the mid-section of your target. Use the widest apeture you have available to you and look for a shutter speed of 1/1000 or faster. Use ISO to get there if necessary. Shoot vertically most of the time. You can get good shots horizontally, but the best shots typically come from a vertical orientation. Shoot tight, make sure you get faces and in sports that utilize a ball, get the ball in the shot as well.

Remember that these are just guidelines and there are people that are great shooters that do things quite differently so keep shooting, find your style, and keep sharing your work.

Thanks

John

KED

JohnEBongo wrote:

Hey KED, that is some great advice from Sirsloop!! The only thing I would say different is to not spend too much time in single shot mode. You dropped some serious coin to be able to shoot at 8 fps, so go ahead and use it. You can learn how to anticipate and learn how to recognize when something is about happen just as easily in multi shot mode. I am not advocating "spray and pray", but if you anticipate well, fire off a quick burst(doesn't have to 8-10 shots, but can be 4-5) you have a better chance of capturing THE peak action shot, IMHO.

OK, now to shooting: As Sirsloop said, use the center AF point and plant it right in the mid-section of your target. Use the widest apeture you have available to you and look for a shutter speed of 1/1000 or faster. Use ISO to get there if necessary. Shoot vertically most of the time. You can get good shots horizontally, but the best shots typically come from a vertical orientation. Shoot tight, make sure you get faces and in sports that utilize a ball, get the ball in the shot as well.

Remember that these are just guidelines and there are people that are great shooters that do things quite differently so keep shooting, find your style, and keep sharing your work.

Thanks

John

You guys are terrific. You have an interesting range of views, so with four games to shoot this weekend the recipe will be single point AF head shots and gut shots, some with the rifle and some with the machinegun. Figuratively speaking, of course! Thanks so much!

rwells

As stated, everybody does it a little differently...

Center focus & single shot, AI servo with back * focus button for me


Let us know how the changes worked out for ya'

KED

rwells wrote:

As stated, everybody does it a little differently...

Center focus & single shot, AI servo with back * focus button for me


Let us know how the changes worked out for ya'

Okay . . . three games this weekend, lots of opportunities to try out all the suggestions. I DO like the back focus button! Thank you!

KMCC

It looks to me like you're on the right track.

I always have my cameras set to AIServo and burst mode, but I have to admit that I take very few bursts. I tend to try to anticipate the action and catch what I'm after on a single exposure.

The only other suggestions I'd make is to shoot a little tighter in on the action. The wide shots show the action in context, but also bring in a lot of distractions in the background. The old axiom is shoot tight, crop tighter (a lesson I'm still trying to learn).

I'm not sure what kind of lens you're using, but shoot in aperture priority mode with as large an aperture as possible to minimize the DOF and blur out the background.

My last suggestion would be to make sure you're keeping your shots level; a few seem to be tilted just a bit.

KED

KMCC wrote:

It looks to me like you're on the right track.

I always have my cameras set to AIServo and burst mode, but I have to admit that I take very few bursts. I tend to try to anticipate the action and catch what I'm after on a single exposure.

The only other suggestions I'd make is to shoot a little tighter in on the action. The wide shots show the action in context, but also bring in a lot of distractions in the background. The old axiom is shoot tight, crop tighter (a lesson I'm still trying to learn).

I'm not sure what kind of lens you're using, but shoot in aperture priority mode with as large an aperture as possible to minimize the DOF and blur out the background.

My last suggestion would be to make sure you're keeping your shots level; a few seem to be tilted just a bit.

KMCC, rwells, John, sirsloop, kuzzy: Better today (nothing posted yet)!! I shot the first half of soccer (3:30 - 4:30) with my big lens, paid attention to focal point (the chest) and mixed it up between single shot and burst. I got some really nice shots, but focus wasn't the issue even on the not-so-great ones. Second half, in fading light, was iffier -- used 70 - 200 zoom with 2x extender, so my widest aperture was 5.6. I was in aperture priority, but had to increase ISO radically as the half wore on I was up to 1000 at the end and still getting only occasional shutter speeds up to 500. There's a lot of noise, so it's hard to say for sure that the focus issue was better, but I think so.

I'm a work in progress, but you guys definitely have given me a huge boost up the learning curve. Thanks again.

sirsloop

lose the 2x TC... use a 1.4 and crop the photo down. You'll get a stop of light back and have better final image quality, even cropped.

wizzy

KED wrote:

I am new here, and relatively new to a serious obsession with sports photography.

Well, I have the same addiction And i love it.
I do similar session at the soccer games frommy kids.
I always use the same settings if i can.

I use af-c (continues focus) set the camera in Speed priotity @ 1/800 or higher and set ISO to auto. That way i can shoot the action almost allways, and the better the light the better the picture.

I had a lense that was somewhat out of focus and it showed in bad light conditions @ F2.8 it wasn't in focus.
Lookin at your pictures i think motion is the key so keep the shuttertime as high as possible, like 1/800 orhigher, and you'll be safe.

In my gallery under Voetbal are the soccer games, similar shoots as you do, might wanna take a look there for the results of my settings.

KED

wizzy wrote:

Well, I have the same addiction And i love it.
I do similar session at the soccer games frommy kids.
I always use the same settings if i can.

I use af-c (continues focus) set the camera in Speed priotity @ 1/800 or higher and set ISO to auto. That way i can shoot the action almost allways, and the better the light the better the picture.

I had a lense that was somewhat out of focus and it showed in bad light conditions @ F2.8 it wasn't in focus.
Lookin at your pictures i think motion is the key so keep the shuttertime as high as possible, like 1/800 orhigher, and you'll be safe.

In my gallery under Voetbal are the soccer games, similar shoots as you do, might wanna take a look there for the results of my settings.

Nice shots -- you have many years of this to look forward to and I only wish I had started when my kids were the size/age of yours - perhaps I'd have it figured out by now!

I don't have an auto-ISO option with my Canon - bummer, except that I have found that once ISO is pushed much past 400, you can't tell where lack of focus ends and the noise begins. These cameras are so "smart" that anybody who can (a) push a button and (b) anticipate where the action will be in a particular sport, ought to be able to get mostly satisfactory and occasionally spectacular results. That's not happening for me yet, and while I would LOVE to find out that there is an actual problem with my lens, I 'm not ready to blame the lens just yet. Although I must say, I had much more consistent results this weekend with my 300 lens even though at the moment I find fixed focal length challenging for sports where the action can be taking place anywhere on a 100 yd field, including right in my face in which case I'm out of luck.

Ann McRae

Hi KED

I am late to this thread, but will chime in any way. I shoot soccer primarily, and have for about 7 years now. The best shooting advice that I was given was:
1. Shoot tight, crop tighter
2. Face, Action, Ball, Contact - the 4 elements of a good shot. Now, many parents will choose shots missing some of these elements, but it is a good guideline.

I shoot with a 20d and 70 - 200mm f2.8. I use single (center) focus, AI Servo, burst, and the back * focus button. I also use CFn 4 -3 on the 20d, a left over from indoor sports shooting, but it allows focus lock on your moving subject and for exposure to change with each shot. I shoot manual and have become very adept at changing shutter speed and apeture on the fly. I start with the 'best' combination light will allow - fast shutter, f5.6 (sweet spot on the 70 - 200) and ISO 100. I will bring the shutter down first, ISO up bit by bit then apeture up as light fades.

When I started, I parked myself at the 18 yd box and concentrated on action in the goal area. As I've become able to anticipate the game, I find I can move around and be successful.

I can handhold that lens, but typically use a monopod.

This summer, I have been able to buy both a 1DmkII and a 300mm f4.0IS and really like that combination for soccer.

Hope some of this is useful to you.

ann

KED

sirsloop wrote:

lose the 2x TC... use a 1.4 and crop the photo down. You'll get a stop of light back and have better final image quality, even cropped.

I did lose it on Sunday in favor of the 1.4, and it's permanently lost in anything other than bright, sunny conditions. Still struggling however, even though I think I adhered pretty faithfully to your (and others') advice and shot right on the player's number most of the time. As I said in a reply below, I used my 300 fixed lens on Saturday with a better hit rate than I had on Sunday in cloudy condtions with the 70-200 x 1.4. This isn't rocket science -- I know how to put the red square on somebody's number and I know the sports that I am shooting. I'm not ready to throw the lens under the bus just yet but I have reached out to Canon just to be sure.

I put up a sequence here:

http://BrownGreenSports.smugmug.com/gallery/3614273/1/205747534

that was shot in burst mode, and to me there is surprising variance in the sharpness frame-to-frame.

KED

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi KED

I am late to this thread, but will chime in any way. I shoot soccer primarily, and have for about 7 years now. The best shooting advice that I was given was:
1. Shoot tight, crop tighter
2. Face, Action, Ball, Contact - the 4 elements of a good shot. Now, many parents will choose shots missing some of these elements, but it is a good guideline.

I shoot with a 20d and 70 - 200mm f2.8. I use single (center) focus, AI Servo, burst, and the back * focus button. I also use CFn 4 -3 on the 20d, a left over from indoor sports shooting, but it allows focus lock on your moving subject and for exposure to change with each shot. I shoot manual and have become very adept at changing shutter speed and apeture on the fly. I start with the 'best' combination light will allow - fast shutter, f5.6 (sweet spot on the 70 - 200) and ISO 100. I will bring the shutter down first, ISO up bit by bit then apeture up as light fades.

When I started, I parked myself at the 18 yd box and concentrated on action in the goal area. As I've become able to anticipate the game, I find I can move around and be successful.

I can handhold that lens, but typically use a monopod.

This summer, I have been able to buy both a 1DmkII and a 300mm f4.0IS and really like that combination for soccer.

Hope some of this is useful to you.

ann

I'm beginning to feel selfish with this thread, but appreciate your chiming in. I am doing so much of what you are -- C. Fn. 4-3, *, same zoom, although given my issues would not even think about manual focus yet. I am using aperture priority and pushing ISO to keep shutter speed up (am now finding that 800 is minimum acceptable to be sure of eliminating motion blur), but as I have stated in other posts today, at a certain point (somewhere around ISO 400) I can't tell where bad focus ends and noise begins.

I had been using a monopod with the zoom but decided this weekend to start handholding it, relying on the IS. With so many variables it is difficult to conduct a controlled, shoot vs. shoot test to determine what is going on. As I have also said in other replies today, I know how to position a red square on a player's number, I know how to push a button and I know these games well enough to anticipate where the play will be, so I am really frustrated -- out of 100+ shots on Sunday, I only had ~15 keepers and that was a stretch after sharpening.

rwells

KED,

I went to the 6 shot burst that you posted on your site.

#1 - nothing in this shot is in focus

#2 - the player behind the main player is in perfect focus (face, helmet)

#3 - again, the player behind your main player - his left shoe is in focus

#4 - looks like the focus is between both players (plane of focus)

#5 - main players right leg and shoe are in focus

#6 - jersey and straps under arm are in focus

What I would do is pull the original images up in Canon's Zoom Browser EX. (should have come with your camera) You can enable the active focus square to show on the image. Take a look at that and compare to where the focus is on the pics above.

I think you'll find two things.

#1 - Even though the 1DMkIIn has about the best record out there for focus tracking, sometimes it can still loose it during a burst.

#2 - It wouldn't surprise me if you might have "just" missed on the intended target. Just a tad off would put the focus square on the player behind your main intended subject. Remember that if your a tad off and another player is next to your main subject, the focus will be shifting between the two. (or between your subject and the background)

Sometimes with a fast burst rate you'll catch shots of that "in between" state. That's one reason I don't shoot burst, the mirror is working so you can't see a continuous view of your fast, erratic moving subject. Can be very hard to be consistent with exactly where your active focus square is at all times.

The Zoom Browser EX software doesn't care if you thought you were on your subject or not, it will show where it indeed was when the shot was taken.

This will help you narrow down possible causes to your issue.

Hope that helps...

KED

rwells wrote:

KED,

I went to the 6 shot burst that you posted on your site.

#1 - nothing in this shot is in focus

#2 - the player behind the main player is in perfect focus (face, helmet)

#3 - again, the player behind your main player - his left shoe is in focus

#4 - looks like the focus is between both players (plane of focus)

#5 - main players right leg and shoe are in focus

#6 - jersey and straps under arm are in focus

What I would do is pull the original images up in Canon's Zoom Browser EX. (should have come with your camera) You can enable the active focus square to show on the image. Take a look at that and compare to where the focus is on the pics above.

I think you'll find two things.

#1 - Even though the 1DMkIIn has about the best record out there for focus tracking, sometimes it can still loose it during a burst.

#2 - It wouldn't surprise me if you might have "just" missed on the intended target. Just a tad off would put the focus square on the player behind your main intended subject. Remember that if your a tad off and another player is next to your main subject, the focus will be shifting between the two. (or between your subject and the background)

Sometimes with a fast burst rate you'll catch shots of that "in between" state. That's one reason I don't shoot burst, the mirror is working so you can't see a continuous view of your fast, erratic moving subject. Can be very hard to be consistent with exactly where your active focus square is at all times.

The Zoom Browser EX software doesn't care if you thought you were on your subject or not, it will show where it indeed was when the shot was taken.

This will help you narrow down possible causes to your issue.

Hope that helps...

OK, I will say it publicly: it is just flat-out embarassing that I am incapable of putting that red rectangle where I want it, and I am humbled to be so indulged by accomplished shooters such as yourself and the others who have offered me so much great advice here. I certainly do see the logic of getting off fewer shots but having a much higher "hit" rate. I think I may try staying with that for a while until I learn to shoot straight.

rwells

KED wrote:

OK, I will say it publicly: it is just flat-out embarassing that I am incapable of putting that red rectangle where I want it, and I am humbled to be so indulged by accomplished shooters such as yourself and the others who have offered me so much great advice here. I certainly do see the logic of getting off fewer shots but having a much higher "hit" rate. I think I may try staying with that for a while until I learn to shoot straight.

KED,

I certainly hope I didn't say nor suggest anything that made you feel embarrassed

We ALL have to learn. NO ONE knows it all. Please don't go down that path.


Now, does your statement mean that you did look, and your focus points were off? If so, that's good news on it's own, as that would eliminate any hardware issues. It's good also that if that is indeed the problem area, that it has been identified so that now you can take measures to correct the issue.

That's part of the fun of photography isn't it --- getting better

KED

rwells wrote:

KED,

I certainly hope I didn't say nor suggest anything that made you feel embarrassed

We ALL have to learn. NO ONE knows it all. Please don't go down that path.


Now, does your statement mean that you did look, and your focus points were off? If so, that's good news on it's own, as that would eliminate any hardware issues. It's good also that if that is indeed the problem area, that it has been identified so that now you can take measures to correct the issue.

That's part of the fun of photography isn't it --- getting better

You most certainly did not say anything intended to embarass me -- I sort of embarassed myself. But you are right, it's a learning experience and if it were easy there would be nothing magical about great photography.

That Digital Zoom is a great tool -- too bad it's so balky on a Mac (it's not even called that on my version). I'm TRYING to do the exercise you went through with lots of my stuff, and will get there eventually; in any case it does not surprise me, in the lacrosse context, that oftentimes when I thought I had my subject squarely on his number, I ended up getting his defender's hand instead (if that!). Single shot may help; so will practice on my part.

rwells

KED wrote:

You most certainly did not say anything intended to embarass me -- I sort of embarassed myself. But you are right, it's a learning experience and if it were easy there would be nothing magical about great photography.

That Digital Zoom is a great tool -- too bad it's so balky on a Mac (it's not even called that on my version). I'm TRYING to do the exercise you went through with lots of my stuff, and will get there eventually; in any case it does not surprise me, in the lacrosse context, that oftentimes when I thought I had my subject squarely on his number, I ended up getting his defender's hand instead (if that!). Single shot may help; so will practice on my part.

KED,

Glad to hear that, and I'm also glad that we were able to find the source of your issue. Like you say, now you can work on it

Keep shooting and have fun!

JohnEBongo

KED wrote:

OK, I will say it publicly: it is just flat-out embarassing that I am incapable of putting that red rectangle where I want it

I think that I can help with this.......one of the pieces of advice that has been given from many people in this thread is to "shoot tight". Your example shots are a little to loose which gives you a smaller target for your focus point, making it more difficult to keep the red box on your subject. Get tighter on your subject, which will give you a bigger target for the focus point, and reduce the chance of the camera locking focus on an un-intended subject.

mercphoto

When I started shooting karts I had a hard time following the subject. I usually didn't realize how bad I was until I started looking at the shots after. Karts were randomly scattered through the frames, rather than consistently centered, or purposefully off-center. Another common item was cutting off parts of a tire, or rear bumper, etc. It took practice and determination. After you learn that skill, though, it becomes second nature, and you can start worrying about other chores.

Motocross threw me a second loop, mainly because those guys jump, and it can be hard to guage at times how high any given rider is going to go. Again, determination, discipline, and eventually it becomes second nature.

You'll find the same with football shots. A running back can be very hard to follow. Think of it this way, a race kart pretty much has a standard racing line to follow. Its relatively easy to guess where the kart is going to go. But predictable running backs tend to get tackled easily. So it will be a bit harder for you to learn to follow the runner. But you'll get the hang of it eventually.

Take an afternoon and concentrate solely on your framing. Get that done. Next target would be to focus on when to fire the shutter. Once your composition is good worry about if you can see the player's face or not, can you see the ball or not, etc. One thing at a time.

KED

JohnEBongo wrote:

I think that I can help with this.......one of the pieces of advice that has been given from many people in this thread is to "shoot tight". Your example shots are a little to loose which gives you a smaller target for your focus point, making it more difficult to keep the red box on your subject. Get tighter on your subject, which will give you a bigger target for the focus point, and reduce the chance of the camera locking focus on an un-intended subject.

You know, now that I look back at those shots with your comment in mind, you (and everyone else) are 100% right about the lack of tightness. I now realize that it's a different mental discipline -- as a spectator you care about the goalie and the other defenders who may slide up to double, but thinking as a photographer they have no business in the frame! I was getting pretty stressed about this, but I'm excited about my next opportunity to shoot now.

I've had better success with my long fixed lens (based on pretty limited experience) than with the zoom, but clearly it will be easier to get tight with the zoom. I love that long lens, but feel like I'm in handcuffs when I use it -- in terms of tightness, I guess it is what it is.

Thanks (again)!

KED

mercphoto wrote:

One thing at a time.

So many things though!! Thanks for your thoughts. I may get to shoot football under the lights this week; don't think cars of any type are in my future. Great point about predictable running backs -- !

sirsloop

Keep up the good work!!

Ya know, it may be a good thing for you to visit a local race track and pan on some cars. I'm a drag racer and live like 10 minutes from raceway park. Tracking racers is EXCELLENT practice and its lots of fun too! I'm actually pretty lucky... they have all sorts of stuff there now from drag racing, road course, moto, karting, drifting... lots of cool stuff. Find a track and make a day trip... well worth it both for pure pleasure shooting and a day outside relaxing! thumb Its one of my favorite things to do.