Lacking Sharpness - Lens, camera, or ME?

boulderNardoboulderNardo Registered Users Posts: 180 Major grins
edited October 11, 2007 in Cameras
Let me start by saying that (a) I had never shot a 70-200 2.8L before, (b) I was out of the photography hobby for over a year, and (c) I'll be posting more samples as I have time throughout the day. Also, I'm posting the link to high-res originals as I believe they will make it easier to determine sharpness/softness of the image.

I've been having, what I thought to be, serious front-focusing problems with my 70-200 2.8L (non-IS) on my used 20D. I will be sending the lens in for a check-up, but would like to get some words of advice on here first. I bought the lens used, the prior owner assured me the last time he used it he got A+ photos (and being a good friend of mine, I don't doubt his words).

The following shots are from that lens:
(high-res originals here: http://my.fit.edu/~bfanti/Pics/Photography/HighRes/)

1. Canon 70-200/2.8L
IMG_0020.jpg

However, I've noticed that a lot of my other shots (with 50/1.8, 35/2, and recently a 24-70/2.8L) lack sharpness. Some samples:
(high-res originals http://my.fit.edu/~bfanti/Dgrin/)


2. Canon 35/2 at f/2.0
IMG_0328.jpg

IMG_0331.jpg


Am I expecting too much at f/2.0? Am I doing absolutely obvious user mistakes? I've read in many places that the 70-200 needs getting used to - anything there I might not know about? Or am I right to believe that, rather than my lenses, my body might be damaged?

I'll be posting some more meaningful samples in a bit - trying to sort through my recent shots. Input appreciated!
Thanks,
bernardo
Canon 1D MkII, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L, Canon 50 f/1.4, Canon 100 f/2
Bogen 055XPROB
Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS, FreeLite A, Skyports, 3x Vivitar 285HV

Comments

  • sirsloopsirsloop Registered Users Posts: 866 Major grins
    edited October 5, 2007
    Well first of all teh 35/2 is not that great at f/2. The lens really starts to shine past f/2.8... up towards f/5.6. I do have some nice f/2 shots with mine, but most of the sharp ones all come from f/2.8 up. Retest those flower shots at f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, and f/8 and see what it looks like. If you have a UV filter on there, take it off and shoot the sequence again... compare between the two.

    Now on to the 70-200... I think there's DEFINITLY something wrong with it and its not a forward focus issue.

    http://my.fit.edu/%7Ebfanti/Pics/Photography/HighRes/IMG_0039.jpg

    This photo tells the tale. Notice the grass. You can clearly see where the grass starts come into focus, where it should be in focus, and where it blows back out the other side. There is no section of grass thats actually sharp here. There's definitely some sort of diffraction/alignment issue with this lens... no good.

    Do you have a UV filter on that 70-200? If so, take it off and reshoot.

    Here's a similar example. Granted, in limited time I don't quite know where a f/2.8 shot w/ grass like that is but you get the idea. Where its in focus it should be tack sharp. Heck, this one is even with a kenko 1.4 tc on there (and a hoya shmc uv filter)!!!!

    http://photos.tallmanphoto.com/photos/170970629-D.jpg

    xti, 70-200/2.8L, f/10, 1/500th, 280mm
    170970629-L.jpg
    http://www.tallmanphoto.com
  • gryphonslair99gryphonslair99 Registered Users Posts: 182 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2007
    sirsloop wrote:
    Now on to the 70-200... I think there's DEFINITLY something wrong with it and its not a forward focus issue.

    Hate to disagree with sirsloop on this one, but at f2.8 the 70-200 is generally a tad bit on the soft side. Try that same shot at f4 and you should definately see a difference. If you think you have focus issues try this test to be sure. http://focustestchart.com/chart.html It says Nikon, but it works for any lens. Great little test tool.
  • sirsloopsirsloop Registered Users Posts: 866 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2007
    IDK... it may be your copy cause my 70-200/2.8L is sharp as hell at 2.8... same w/ my 70-200/4L at f/4. Out of all my lenses my 70-200/2.8L is my favorite...its SOOO forgiving!!

    original - http://www.jdhaesloop.com/IMG_3086.JPG eek7.gif

    70-200/2.8L - XTI, 1/640, f/2.8, 140mm, iso100, through a hoya shmc UV filter
    IMG_3086s.JPG

    I kinda hate to bring this site up, but it is great for raw data for lens comparison -> http://photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70200_28/index.htm
    http://www.tallmanphoto.com
  • claudermilkclaudermilk Registered Users Posts: 2,756 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2007
    The example 70-200 shot does look quite soft for that lens. I noticed how darn sharp mine was the first time I used it. Now, if you really look at the photozone data, all the 70-200's suffer wide open, stop down to f4 and things look much, much better. But, like I said, that shot looks a bit soft even for wide open.

    BTW, in agonizing over the super-tele zoom I want to get I've become quite familiar with their data & all the 70-200's data from photozone. deal.gif
    Chris
    http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
  • boulderNardoboulderNardo Registered Users Posts: 180 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2007
    Thanks for the replies people! Appreciate all the input.
    Really seems that my lens is damaged... I've taken more shots this morning with both the 70-200 and the 24-70 - pics are tack-sharp with the 24-70, but soft even opened up with the 70-200.

    I'll be running the Nikon focus test in a moment, as soon as I find a tripod (don't own one yet ;))! Thanks for the link!

    Sending the lens in for repair on Monday. Hopefully the repair won't break the bank...
    Canon 1D MkII, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L, Canon 50 f/1.4, Canon 100 f/2
    Bogen 055XPROB
    Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS, FreeLite A, Skyports, 3x Vivitar 285HV
  • boulderNardoboulderNardo Registered Users Posts: 180 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2007
    Ok. I've read through the Focus Test document and attempted my first try.
    No tripod, but managed to use chairs and tables to stabilize the camera and shot around 1/200 shutter. Here's the results:

    http://my.fit.edu/~bfanti/Dgrin/IMG_0359.jpg
    http://my.fit.edu/~bfanti/Dgrin/IMG_0360.jpg

    What say you? The proper spot seems to be in focus, so definitely no front/back focusing issues. But it seems real soft.... Send the lens in, repeat with a tripod, or what?

    EDIT: Taken a few shots with the 24-70. Here's a sample:

    http://my.fit.edu/~bfanti/Dgrin/Canon24_70_2_8.jpg

    Even though it's handheld, I think it look SIGNIFICANTLY sharper than the shots taken with the 70-200... Off it goes to Canon!
    Canon 1D MkII, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L, Canon 50 f/1.4, Canon 100 f/2
    Bogen 055XPROB
    Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS, FreeLite A, Skyports, 3x Vivitar 285HV
  • Vette74Vette74 Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited October 8, 2007
    70-200 @2.8
    I use my 70-200 @2.8 all the time. Seems sharp to me.
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Registered Users Posts: 1,751 Major grins
    edited October 8, 2007
    sirsloop wrote:
    Now on to the 70-200... I think there's DEFINITLY something wrong with it and its not a forward focus issue.

    http://my.fit.edu/%7Ebfanti/Pics/Photography/HighRes/IMG_0039.jpg

    If you look closely at the hand which is holding the basket, you'll see an echo to the left of his hand. That is usually an indication of motion blur and in this case I am betting that camera shake is the culprit.
    Liquid Air - Gallery - Blog
  • sirsloopsirsloop Registered Users Posts: 866 Major grins
    edited October 8, 2007
    I'd have to go back and look at the shutter speed on it... but the one I mentioned w/ the grass was like 1/1600th. You'd have to have one hell of a shake to get a blur that bad!
    http://www.tallmanphoto.com
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,079 moderator
    edited October 8, 2007
    sirsloop wrote:
    I'd have to go back and look at the shutter speed on it... but the one I mentioned w/ the grass was like 1/1600th. You'd have to have one hell of a shake to get a blur that bad!

    Here is what I read:

    http://my.fit.edu/%7Ebfanti/Pics/Photography/HighRes/IMG_0039.jpg
    Exif IFD0

    * Camera Make = Canon
    * Camera Model = Canon EOS 20D
    * X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
    * Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
    * X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
    * Last Modified Date/Time = 2007:09:22 15:08:51
    * Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = co-sited / datum point (2)
    * Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
    * Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
    * White Balance = auto (0)
    * Scene Capture Type = standard (0)

    Exif Sub IFD

    * Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/1600 second = 0.00063 second
    * Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 28/10 = F2.80
    * Exposure Program = aperture priority (3)
    * ISO Speed Ratings = 100
    * Exif Version = 0221
    * Original Date/Time = 2007:09:22 15:08:51
    * Digitization Date/Time = 2007:09:22 15:08:51
    * Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
    * Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 697556/65536
    Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/1600.00 second
    * Aperture Value (APEX) = 194698/65536
    Aperture = F2.80
    * Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/2 = 0.00
    * Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
    * Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
    * Focal Length = 200/1 mm = 200.00 mm
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Registered Users Posts: 1,751 Major grins
    edited October 9, 2007
    sirsloop wrote:
    I'd have to go back and look at the shutter speed on it... but the one I mentioned w/ the grass was like 1/1600th. You'd have to have one hell of a shake to get a blur that bad!

    Yes indeedy. Given how funky the blur in that image is, I have to agree then. Its a sick lens and needs the kind of help that only Canon can give it.
    Liquid Air - Gallery - Blog
  • MartynMartyn Registered Users Posts: 112 Major grins
    edited October 9, 2007
    Are there any reported problems with the 40D and soft images?

    I have the Canon 70-200 f4 IS USM and the Tamron Sp AF28-75 f2.8 XR Di LD
    and i can't seem to get a sharp image with either.
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,079 moderator
    edited October 9, 2007
    Martyn wrote:
    Are there any reported problems with the 40D and soft images?

    I have the Canon 70-200 f4 IS USM and the Tamron Sp AF28-75 f2.8 XR Di LD
    and i can't seem to get a sharp image with either.




    I've not heard of any problems. In fact, quite the contrary, people seem pretty happy with that camera.

    Do you have any full-res samples with EXIF that we can look at to help determine a likely culprit?
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • MartynMartyn Registered Users Posts: 112 Major grins
    edited October 11, 2007
    ziggy53 wrote:
    I've not heard of any problems. In fact, quite the contrary, people seem pretty happy with that camera.

    Do you have any full-res samples with EXIF that we can look at to help determine a likely culprit?

    After looking at more images it is very apparent that the Tamron (Sp AF28-75 f2.8 XR Di LD) is soft. It also developed a problem with the zoom which became very stiff and felt like it was going to lock up. I've taken it back but have to wait a week for replacement stock to arrive.

    I now feel the Canon 70-200 f4 IS USM is OK and I was probably expecting pixel perfect images from it (I think I got carried away with the reviews of both the 40D and this lens). However, I have posted some images and would appreciate somebody taking a look and giving me some reassurance.

    Please note - all images:
    shot in Jpeg Faithful,
    Stabilizer on (mode 1),
    AF at centre of image (back of mini bus - emergency exit handle),
    posted at original size.

    Exif intact.

    Links:
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/01_f4_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/02_f5.6_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/03_f8_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/04_f11_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/10_f4_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/11_f5.6_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/12_f8_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/13_f11_138mm.JPG

    Many thanks
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,079 moderator
    edited October 11, 2007
    Martyn wrote:
    After looking at more images it is very apparent that the Tamron (Sp AF28-75 f2.8 XR Di LD) is soft. It also developed a problem with the zoom which became very stiff and felt like it was going to lock up. I've taken it back but have to wait a week for replacement stock to arrive.

    I now feel the Canon 70-200 f4 IS USM is OK and I was probably expecting pixel perfect images from it (I think I got carried away with the reviews of both the 40D and this lens). However, I have posted some images and would appreciate somebody taking a look and giving me some reassurance.

    Please note - all images:
    shot in Jpeg Faithful,
    Stabilizer on (mode 1),
    AF at centre of image (back of mini bus - emergency exit handle),
    posted at original size.

    Exif intact.

    Links:
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/01_f4_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/02_f5.6_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/03_f8_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/04_f11_70mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/10_f4_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/11_f5.6_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/12_f8_138mm.JPG
    http://www.martynandjanet.com/_tmp_imgs/13_f11_138mm.JPG

    Many thanks

    I only spot checked a couple of the f4 images, but sharpness does not appear to be a problem. Both images showed what appeared to be prime focus on the pavement much closer than central in the image.

    I suggest more tests with a subject like a brick wall and a fence row or guard rail at an angle to determine if the focus is accurate on the prime subject.

    Try both multi-point and single-point focus dot selection to see if both methods are accurate.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • MartynMartyn Registered Users Posts: 112 Major grins
    edited October 11, 2007
    ziggy53 wrote:
    I only spot checked a couple of the f4 images, but sharpness does not appear to be a problem. Both images showed what appeared to be prime focus on the pavement much closer than central in the image.

    I suggest more tests with a subject like a brick wall and a fence row or guard rail at an angle to determine if the focus is accurate on the prime subject.

    Try both multi-point and single-point focus dot selection to see if both methods are accurate.

    Many thanks Ziggy.
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