color mode?

magicpic · October 16, 2007

should my color mode be rgb and my color profile be srgb and resolution be 300? thanks janis

jfriend · October 16, 2007

Need more information

magicpic wrote:

should my color mode be rgb and my color profile be srgb and resolution be 300? thanks janis

We need more information:

Are you asking about camera settings or are you asking about Photoshop settings for a given image?
Are you shooting and manipulating RAW files or JPEG files?
What software are you using?
What do you do with most of your images (put them on the web or send in email, print yourself, print online, print at local shop?
How would you describe your general level of color management training (beginner, basic understanding, advanced understanding, expert)?
When you ask about resolution at 300, what context is this in: when cropping? when resizing images? something else?

magicpic · October 18, 2007

jfriend wrote:

We need more information:
Are you asking about camera settings or are you asking about Photoshop settings for a given image?

Are you shooting and manipulating RAW files or JPEG files?

What software are you using?

What do you do with most of your images (put them on the web or send in email, print yourself, print online, print at local shop?

How would you describe your general level of color management training (beginner, basic understanding, advanced understanding, expert)?

When you ask about resolution at 300, what context is this in: when cropping? when resizing images? something else?

photoshop settings
raw file
cs3 photoshop
put them on the web
color management training trying to understand
300 resolution what resolution do you have for the smugmug
thanks janis

Travis · October 18, 2007

magicpic wrote:

photoshop settings
raw file
cs3 photoshop
put them on the web
color management training trying to understand
300 resolution what resolution do you have for the smugmug
thanks janis

Hi Janis,

It sounds like some simple questions but there has been volumes written on color management. Discovering the perfect formula is akin to finding the holy grail hidden in the back of your closet. But there are some things that will help starting off...

RAW vs. PSD vs. JPEG: RAW captures are fairly close to straight data about the image. They contain all of the information about the image with minimal or no compression and color compensation. Most serious photographers (although someone will debate this) shoot in RAW so that they have as much image information to manipulate in their photo editing software as possible. With Photoshop CS3, RAW files are usually processed in Adobe Camera RAW or Adobe Lightroom.

After the RAW "processing" is complete, the file is exported to another format - generally a PSD or JPEG. If you are content with image as is, you can go ahead and convert directly to JPEG. Most prefer to convert to PSD (a photoshop layered document) to make any fine tuning adjustments to the image. By utilizing layers, you can edit the image without degrading the original in the event that you have to revert. JPEGs on the other hand are flat files that are also compressed. Any edits to a JPEG will inevitably reduce image quality. So basic flow is RAW -> PSD -> JPEG.

Resolution: This really depends on what the intended output is to be. Resolution is measured in dots per inch (DPI), the amount of ink laid down on the medium. It is recommended that if you are going to print an image, the optimum DPI is 240; however, it really depends on image size and viewing distances. Oddly enough, very large images may have a relatively small DPI because there is a large distance between the viewer and the print. For sake of argument, lets say that 200 - 240 DPI is suitable for printed images up to 20 x 30. I just got done reading an article on Gary land where he said that he prints everything at 150 DPI because the quality of the printers has gotten to the point that you can no longer tell the difference between 150 and 300.

Images viewed online, though, are a different story. You really only need the image to be 72 DPI to be perfectly viewable on a monitor. Your not laying down ink so it is not necessary have as high a resolution.

So what does this mean.... Before you convert the photo to a JPEG, you need to determine the primary use for the photo. Is it for the web only or for web and print? Then adjust the output accordingly. You load high resolution images to the web and they'll look the same but their larger file size will increase the amount of time it takes to upload/download the image. One note of warning, create a copy when you change resolutions in case you want to create a printable version.

Color Mode and Space: For all practical purposes, RGB is the mode in which you should be working (you will eventually discover reasons to work in others but lets keep it simple at first). Now you have to decide between Adobe RGB and sRGB. The difference is in the size of the color gamut. Adobe RGB has a larger gamut (more shades); however, most output devices (smugmug for one) only accept sRGB. You can work in Adobe RGB and then convert the working space which may or may not cause a color shift or keep it simple and use sRGB as your color space.

The bottom line is that there really isn't a truly right answer for any of these questions, so I would suggest starting out as simple a possible and building as you learn more. I also recommend reading up on it. CS3 Essential Skills is a good book to start out with.

Hope this helps,

magicpic · October 18, 2007

Travis wrote:

Hi Janis,

It sounds like some simple questions but there has been volumes written on color management. Discovering the perfect formula is akin to finding the holy grail hidden in the back of your closet. But there are some things that will help starting off...

RAW vs. PSD vs. JPEG: RAW captures are fairly close to straight data about the image. They contain all of the information about the image with minimal or no compression and color compensation. Most serious photographers (although someone will debate this) shoot in RAW so that they have as much image information to manipulate in their photo editing software as possible. With Photoshop CS3, RAW files are usually processed in Adobe Camera RAW or Adobe Lightroom.

After the RAW "processing" is complete, the file is exported to another format - generally a PSD or JPEG. If you are content with image as is, you can go ahead and convert directly to JPEG. Most prefer to convert to PSD (a photoshop layered document) to make any fine tuning adjustments to the image. By utilizing layers, you can edit the image without degrading the original in the event that you have to revert. JPEGs on the other hand are flat files that are also compressed. Any edits to a JPEG will inevitably reduce image quality. So basic flow is RAW -> PSD -> JPEG.

Resolution: This really depends on what the intended output is to be. Resolution is measured in dots per inch (DPI), the amount of ink laid down on the medium. It is recommended that if you are going to print an image, the optimum DPI is 240; however, it really depends on image size and viewing distances. Oddly enough, very large images may have a relatively small DPI because there is a large distance between the viewer and the print. For sake of argument, lets say that 200 - 240 DPI is suitable for printed images up to 20 x 30. I just got done reading an article on Gary land where he said that he prints everything at 150 DPI because the quality of the printers has gotten to the point that you can no longer tell the difference between 150 and 300.

Images viewed online, though, are a different story. You really only need the image to be 72 DPI to be perfectly viewable on a monitor. Your not laying down ink so it is not necessary have as high a resolution.

So what does this mean.... Before you convert the photo to a JPEG, you need to determine the primary use for the photo. Is it for the web only or for web and print? Then adjust the output accordingly. You load high resolution images to the web and they'll look the same but their larger file size will increase the amount of time it takes to upload/download the image. One note of warning, create a copy when you change resolutions in case you want to create a printable version.

Color Mode and Space: For all practical purposes, RGB is the mode in which you should be working (you will eventually discover reasons to work in others but lets keep it simple at first). Now you have to decide between Adobe RGB and sRGB. The difference is in the size of the color gamut. Adobe RGB has a larger gamut (more shades); however, most output devices (smugmug for one) only accept sRGB. You can work in Adobe RGB and then convert the working space which may or may not cause a color shift or keep it simple and use sRGB as your color space.

The bottom line is that there really isn't a truly right answer for any of these questions, so I would suggest starting out as simple a possible and building as you learn more. I also recommend reading up on it. CS3 Essential Skills is a good book to start out with.

Hope this helps,

so if I am uploading photos to smugmug what should I have the resoution in? it sounds like they convert to 302...thanks travis..janis

jfriend · October 18, 2007

magicpic wrote:

should my color mode be rgb and my color profile be srgb and resolution be 300?

photoshop settings
raw file
cs3 photoshop
put them on the web
color management training trying to understand
300 resolution what resolution do you have for the smugmug
thanks janis

OK, thanks for the context. Here's some suggestions.

First, if you are shooting RAW, you don't have to worry about the color mode in your camera. It's a RAW capture. The color mode is specific to the camera's sensor and not something you change. You probably already know that, but I thought I'd mention it for completeness.

Second, the web requires sRGB. So, if your images are generally headed to the web, then you should probably set your RAW processor to generate sRGB images (it will convert the RAW image to the sRGB colorspace when you make a JPEG). More than 90% of the online labs for printing also require sRGB. Since Smugmug is for web display and uses EZPrints (which requires sRGB), all Smugmug images should be in sRGB. In fact, if you upload an AdobeRGB image by mistake, Smugmug will convert it to sRGB for you.

Third, Smugmug, your viewer's browsers and Smugmug's printer don't care what the ppi resolution is labelled at all. You can completely ignore it. I have uploaded thousands of images and my viewers have ordered hundreds of prints and I've never once concerned myself with the labelled ppi resolution. The ONLY thing that Smugmug cares about is how many pixels your image has and the quality of those pixels.

Since they offer us unlimited storage, if you want the best print quality, you should be uploading the higest resolution possible from your camera. For a RAW workflow, you would shoot in RAW, open them in the RAW processor, make your changes, then convert them to JPEG preserving the original pixel count (no resampling at all). If you are using Adobe Camera RAW, you can just leave the ppi setting on it's default (my installation defaults to 240ppi). What you set this to doesn't change the pixels of the image at all. I just changes a metadata label on the image (which is not used by Smugmug or it's printer) so it doesn't matter for Smugmug at all.

If you really want to know what the ppi setting does, here's a techy explanation. In an image that Photoshop generates, there are three interrelated properties. The number of pixels your image has, the labelled size of the image (like 4"x6") and the labelled ppi of the image (like 300ppi). These three are all related by formula. Pick any two and the third can be calculated. The number of pixels is the only one that directly affects your image and is the only one that Smugmug cares about. The other two are simply metadata labels applied to the image. When you generate a JPEG from your RAW for upload to Smugmug, you will usually preserve the original pixel count from your camera. That means that value is fixed. You can then specify one of the other two values (image dimension or ppi). Whichever you set, the other will be calculated based on the other two values. For example, if you have a 2000x3000 pixel image and you pick 300ppi for a label, Photoshop will calculate your image dimension as 6.66"x10" (3000/300=10).

I'll repeat. I've uploaded thousands of images to Smugmug and never once worried about the ppi setting. You can safely ignore it.

I am often asked when folks should use a colorspace other than sRGB. There certainly are legitimate reasons for using larger colorspaces than sRGB, like AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB. The simplest advice is that it is generally only valuable to use these larger colorspaces when your image is destined for an output device that supports more colors than sRGB can render and you understand things like color management, device color profiles and soft proofing well enough to really take advantage of it. Some home printers can print more colors than sRGB holds (deeper reds, greener greens, brighter yellows, perhaps). But, to see any difference, your image has to contain these extra colors and you have to know how to use the other colorspaces properly. Mistakes in color management can mess up your image much more than you can hope to gain so it's something to really learn if you want to give it a try.

Rock · October 18, 2007

The information here is great. Thanks for all the break downs and information. I have been reading about shooting raw and I think I am finally understand the different color space and raw thing......

color mode?

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