Jon fixing my waterfall

Dogdots

Jon,

Will you show me how you fixed my picture. I'd really like to know---craving knowledge

Thanks----Mary

SloYerRoll

Try going here first Mary. Post your results after you follow the tutorial then we'll go from there.
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/2292454/1

There are some post pro's in here that are way better than I at this. We'll see what happens though.

For the rest of the world, this is the shot that mary wants to pop. I did a few minutes of post here. But nothing extensive.


-Jon

SloYerRoll

Here's what I did.
Here's what I did.

BinaryFx

Mary, Do you shoot raw camera files or direct into in-camera JPEG?

As Jon points out with the tutorial link - the first thing that your image needs is better dynamic range, as it is a little flat. There are many other things that can be done, but setting good tonal range and increasing the apparent exposure will improve the image dramatically (good tonal range can make an image appear sharper).

The process starts with making the darkest areas that contain detail darker and the lightest areas that contain detail lighter. Levels or curves are commonly used to perform this task.

Above and beyond the shadows and highlights, how one allocates tone/colour in the other tonal ranges will play a critical role (quarter tones, midtones and three quarter tones). This is where one finds the tonal ranges for the key area of interestand creates more contrast in these areas, at the expense of other areas using steep curves that isolate this tonal range.

An example of basic tonal edits as described above in this image. I was "conservative" with the endpoints, but more aggressive with the quarter tones and midtones in my curves:


Regards,

Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

Dogdots

Hi,

I shoot in Raw and Jpeg combined. This photo was the jpeg I played with--I think. Have to check it out tho to make sure. I see what your saying. Nicely explained. Thank you.

Tomorrow I will play with it and then post it to see what you may think.

---Mary

BinaryFx

Dogdots wrote:

Hi,

I shoot in Raw and Jpeg combined. This photo was the jpeg I played with--I think. Have to check it out tho to make sure. I see what your saying. Nicely explained. Thank you.

Tomorrow I will play with it and then post it to see what you may think.

---Mary

Thanks Mary, I was attempting to be brief in my words, let me know if more detail is required. The histogram will be a good guide as you go, although I personally prefer the info palette and colour samplers above histograms (both have their place in image/image editing analysis but one should always keep in mind that it is the image that is important, not the histogram). Some links to editing curves and setting range and other related topics can be found here (scroll down to the curves and levels section):

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/links.html#C

There are other things that one can do, such as shadow/highlight tonal altering, midtone sharpening (over and above the natural effect that good curves produce), channel blends, creative high radius/low amount sharpening etc.

As you shoot raw camera files, that is often the best place to start. Presuming Adobe products, one would try to use the exposure slider to set the white point without clipping and the shadow slider to set the black point without clipping data. Then the brightness, contrast and tone curves can be used to allocate the appropriate tones in between these two extreme endpoints (with the addition of highlight recovery or fill light for shadows etc).


Hope this helps,

Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

Dogdots

Stephen you have been a great help.

Tomorrow is d-day on my fixing the picture and reading everything I need to know before I try to fix it.

I think I'm going to hate waterfalls by the time I'm done with it

Thanks!

----Mary
PS....I will let you know if I need help. I've saved your post

Dee

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/links.html#C
Stephen Marsh.

What a great list! I've bookmarked it for review later! Thanks.:D

Dogdots

Ok....I have worked on this some. Not the best of course. My color is even different. I kept losing the red of the rocks. Please tell me what else I need to do to get it up to what it could be. Maybe this picture is delete ready ----Mary

BinaryFx

Dogdots wrote:

Ok....I have worked on this some. Not the best of course. My color is even different. I kept losing the red of the rocks. Please tell me what else I need to do to get it up to what it could be. Maybe this picture is delete ready ----Mary

Mary, was this new version produced with the raw converter, or on the camera JPEG? I will stick with the Photoshop edits to the JPEG file as discussed previously in this thread.

Going back to your original image from earlier in thread, I will walk you through step by step. This will be a brief explanation, so if some key info is missing please don't hesitate to ask so that things can be fleshed out.

1. Add a curves adjustment layer.

2. Double click the set black point eyedropper in the curves interface

3. Enter 25r 25g 25b as the target colour. Hit OK.

4. With the black eyedropper still selected, click on an area of the image that you wish to be this new black target value. I clicked on the dark area of the rocks in the upper centre section of the photo.

You should notice that the image darkens slightly, as one is making the dark area of the rocks darker, without forcing the RGB values to no value (still holding some detail).

5. Double click the set whitepoint eyedropper in the open curves dialog box interface. Set each RGB value to 245. Hit OK.

6. With the white eyedropper still selected, click on an area of the image that you wish to force to this new highlight value. I clicked on the whitest part of the white water in the upper/centre left section.

The picture should lighten a bit now, it will have more contrast and a greater stretch of tones between these new extreme shadow/highlight regions of the tonal scale. Not only contrast is being affected here, colour balance is being altered slightly too. Optionally, you could experiment with the middle grey eyedropper, and click on something that should be neutral (the gray water in the waterfall perhaps).

This is an improvement in itself, but only subtly so. The image still needs to be brighter, in my opinion.

7. With the curves dialog still open, click on the curve to place a control point for editing. Change the input number to 100 and the output number to 128. This will lighten the image.

This is not exactly how I would do things Mary, but it is what I would recommend for you to try as a first step in learning these moves and will provide similar results to my posted example.


Regards,

Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

GREAPER

My attempt:

New adjustment layer, levels, adjust levels ubtil histogram covers right to left and then a little farther to brighten the water (did not worry about blowing out the brightest spots)

Use the eraser tool on the adjustment layer to erase the blown out spots in 20 percent increments.

New adjustment layer, curves, mover slider tothe right at the bottom and the left at the top (small amount)

again use eraser tool to erase this layer anywhere it is blown out.

Flatten image.

Dogdots

Stehphen thank you for the step by step. As you can tell I'm so new to this.

Anyway, I followed your steps till I got to #7. That step I couldn't follow. If you could give me alittle more infor for this step.

I was amazed on how the photo had changed. I had never used the eyedropper before. Just amazing . Many Thanks Yous!!!

I do have some questions if you don't mind.

1. When you enter you target colors -- how do you know to put in the number 25? Why not a different number? (from step 3)

2. When you set the whitepoint eyedropper how did you know to put in the 245 for the RGB?

I really want to learn all this so much. I don't live where they offer classes on Photoshop so I try to do it myself. I did get Scott Kelbys CS3 book so hopefully that will help me some. But what you have just showed me has really opened a door for me.

I don't know if it was the jpeg I pulled up or the Raw photo to do this last pic I did. I"m thinking Raw. Sorry that I don't know for sure.

Greaper----I haven't tried your way yet....will soon.

Gotta go---hubby is taking down a wall and he is calling for help .

----Mary

SloYerRoll

Told you there were some smart cats in here on post Mary.

I subscribe to the KISS philosiphy. (keep it simple stupid) Maybe that's because I don't want to think allot.

This is just a thought.. But using Photoshop for basic editing is like driving a Maserati to 7-11 to get milk. If you don't want to jump through so many hoops. Maybe try out Lightroom? It's a free trial for 30 days. It's a little bit to learn. Once you get settled into a groove though. It's cake!!

If you like PS though. More power to you! I use PS all the time, just not for photo editing.

Just a thought though.

All the best,
-Jon

Dogdots

Jon,

You are so right. They do know their stuff. I've been playing with the eyedropper like its a new toy .

Now I just have to learn and teaching ol' ladies new tricks can be hard. Well....I'm not that old yet .

As I'm typing this I'm downloading the trail for Lightroom. I've been thinking about it for awhile, but bought CS3 instead. May have made a mistake. I will find out.

Thanks for leading me to this section of dgrin.

----Mary

SloYerRoll

content removed to maintain continuity in thread...

Posted in correct thread.

cheers,
-Jon

Dogdots

Jon....

-What came first---CS3 or Lightroom?

My thread is coming in just a second. You were reading my mind

----Mary

BinaryFx

Dogdots wrote:

Stehphen thank you for the step by step. As you can tell I'm so new to this.

Anyway, I followed your steps till I got to #7. That step I couldn't follow. If you could give me alittle more infor for this step.

Mary, I am glad that you could follow the steps and that your questions are related to theory, rather than the steps as posted!

I was amazed on how the photo had changed. I had never used the eyedropper before. Just amazing . Many Thanks Yous!!!

It may not be the best way of the many ways to do this task, but it fast and good for beginners and even old hands alike!

I do have some questions if you don't mind.

Not at all, ask away Mary and I will do my best to answer.

1. When you enter you target colors -- how do you know to put in the number 25? Why not a different number? (from step 3)

It could be a different number...

A solid neutral black is 0r 0g 0b. I did not wish the shadow this dark as other tones plug in. Reasonable people may disagree and come to different aimponts for the darkest areas that contain detail. But each would likely be increasing the contrast, making the existing values in these key areas more extreme.

2. When you set the whitepoint eyedropper how did you know to put in the 245 for the RGB?

255rgb is pure white, blown out - no detail.

245 provides a minumum or near to minimum highlight dot in many settings (detail).

Where one clicks makes all the difference, as well as the target values. One may set the target values to be 0rgb and 255rgb and click on different but similar areas of the image and receive simialar results to my less aggressive figures.

I really want to learn all this so much. I don't live where they offer classes on Photoshop so I try to do it myself. I did get Scott Kelbys CS3 book so hopefully that will help me some. But what you have just showed me has really opened a door for me.

The previous links at my site will help a lot, if you can find the time to read through them! I handpicked the links to curves, levels and colour correction as they go into all this in much more detail and make these types of forum explanations so much easier.

I don't know if it was the jpeg I pulled up or the Raw photo to do this last pic I did. I"m thinking Raw. Sorry that I don't know for sure.

My explanation has been for Photoshop edits to rendered JPEG data, not for raw camera files and ACR/ALR edits.

The theory can be similar (what one wants to do), but the controls are rather different (how one goes about getting the result).


Hope this helps,

Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

BinaryFx

Mary, if you have CS3, then you have the same editing functions as available in ALR.

Learning to render raw images or edit rendered images in ACR/ALR is different than doing things in Photoshop.

It often depends on your workflow, if you do more work in/on raw camera data than rendered camera data you would put in more effort on learning how to do all this in the raw converter.

Learning how to work a raw converter is a different thread than this one, which has been about editing rendered images in Photoshop.


Regards,

Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

Dogdots

Hi Stephen,

I played around some more with the settings in curves---it was a lot of fun--and I changed the numbers to see what it would do to the photo--wow--it can really do some damage .

I saved your link and will spend some time tomorrow reading it. My mind is craving the knowledge to learn all this, but going numb in the process:D .

My photos were jpegs. May have started out as Raw, but after Raw I went into CS3 with them and played around. Does that make sense?

I did post a new thread about the difference with CS3 and Lightroom. As I downloaded the trail for Lightroom. I really like the sliding histogram. Amazing. Just Amazing what it could do to a picture of a church I took on a misty night.

Maybe you will see that post and can give me some info on it? It would be appreciated by me and others.

Thanks Stephen for all your help. Lookin' forward to my reading/lesson tomorrow.

---Mary

BinaryFx

Mary, I forgot to answer your question about point #7 from my brief tutorial on page 1 of this thread.

7. With the curves dialog still open, click on the curve to place a control point for editing. Change the input number to 100 and the output number to 128. This will lighten the image.

You have just set the black and white point via the eyedroppers.

Now it is time to make the image lighter/brigther.

Move your mouse anywhere along the default linear diagonal RGB master/composite curve in the main curves window interface. Click. A new edit point will be added to this spot on the curve, in addition to the original two endpoint control points that default to all curves.

Below the curve, there will be two boxes, named input and output. With the new control point still targeted (indicated via solid black) change whatever the number is in the input field and make it read as 100. Change the output field to read as 128.

Or just simply move the new curve control point up/down until the image is lighter/darker (depending which way it is moved and how the curve axis is set-up).

One can also cmd/ctrl click on the tonal area of the image to set an edit point on the curve.

The once linear curve will now bend when the third control point is moved up/down, creating more contrast in one area of the tonal range for all three channels than the other, which will be compressed (with the 'midpoint' being this new control point, which does not have to be at the mathematical tonal midpoint as one is restricted to with levels).

If all this is too hard to follow, then simply skip this step. Add a new levels adjustement layer above the curves. Move the middle RGB composite/master middle levels slider until the image is brighter.

As you have CS3, so the latest version of ACR can do the same edits as ALR, to raw or rendered files, so don't stress when the demo expires. If you prefer the ALR way over Photoshop CS3 ACR and Bridge, then perhaps purchase it. I would recommend that you explore your current purchases first though.

If you can host a copy of the raw camera file, we can start a new thread about ACR/ALR edits, as this thread is more about working rendered files in Photoshop and is wordy enough (the raw camera file edits will need new thread of their own as they too will become rather wordy!).

Until then, my original brief instructions are still good to follow for a start:

As you shoot raw camera files, that is often the best place to start. Presuming Adobe products, one would try to use the exposure slider to set the white point without clipping and the shadow slider to set the black point without clipping data. Then the brightness, contrast and tone curves can be used to allocate the appropriate tones in between these two extreme endpoints (with the addition of highlight recovery or fill light for shadows etc).

The above was presuming that you have started from setting white balance correctly first (one may need to tweak WB and Exposure in tandem, as there can be some cross-talk).


Stephen Marsh.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

Dogdots

BinaryFx wrote:

Mary, I forgot to answer your question about point #7 from my brief tutorial on page 1 of this thread.

Stephen I noticed that, but figured you wanted me to figure it out
myself .

Wow....back to playing with my waterfall again. That picture is starting to rub me the wrong way, but know its the perfect learning tool, so with it I will learn . I shouldn't have been taking it on such a misty, dreary day and using my telephoto lens. Should have kept my 24-105 on. Stupid me!

I understand your information for me was with the jpeg file. And that is good. I know with RAW it would be different. I feel I do need to learn the CS3 program as I see it as a challenge I'm determinded to conquer. Not to a professional level, but as a person who doesn't feel intimidated by just opening this program up. After that I would think RAW would be a piece of cake--but know I am wrong in that thought.

So....I will go back to the waterfall and if it shows inprovement I will post it in a few days. If not I will post questions.

----Mary