Problem in my workflow

Dogdots

I have a problem I hope someone can help me with. After I edit a photo, be it a RAW or Jpeg I always like to print out a 4x6 to check it for editing problems which may need to be corrected.

Now comes my problem. I have cropped my photo and if its a good one I don't have a photo that hasn't been cropped.

Should I save my original edited photo to a disk before cropping...which I think(?) is the right thing to do. But I have to convert it to jpeg for it to print so I can't save it to psd to re-edit if I need to. (Thats right isn't it?)

I'm so confused

---

:scratch

I know I'm missing something here on what needs to be done so if someone could please help me. I want to be able to edit a photo, print the photo in a 4x6 for inspection, but still have the photo in original size in case I want to do a large print in the future.

---Mary

BradfordBenn

Howdy Mary-

In my work flow the first thing I do is back up my originals, just in case. I then work on the "copies" of the files so that when I mess up (not if, but when) I can go back and get a new copy.

My entire work flow is written down here...http://blog.bradfordbenn.com/?p=108

Dogdots

BradfordBenn wrote:

Howdy Mary-

In my work flow the first thing I do is back up my originals, just in case. I then work on the "copies" of the files so that when I mess up (not if, but when) I can go back and get a new copy.

My entire work flow is written down here...http://blog.bradfordbenn.com/?p=108

Brad...

I make copies of the originals. Then I go into the file that is left on my computer and work off those images.

But what I could do is copy my edited version to a file. Then crop the photo to a 4x6 and print it out. If its a keeper I have it already copied to a disc in full size. Does that sound right?

----Mary

PS....I copied your workflow

jfriend

Dogdots wrote:

I have a problem I hope someone can help me with. After I edit a photo, be it a RAW or Jpeg I always like to print out a 4x6 to check it for editing problems which may need to be corrected.

Now comes my problem. I have cropped my photo and if its a good one I don't have a photo that hasn't been cropped.

Should I save my original edited photo to a disk before cropping...which I think(?) is the right thing to do. But I have to convert it to jpeg for it to print so I can't save it to psd to re-edit if I need to. (Thats right isn't it?)

I'm so confused

---

I know I'm missing something here on what needs to be done so if someone could please help me. I want to be able to edit a photo, print the photo in a 4x6 for inspection, but still have the photo in original size in case I want to do a large print in the future.

---Mary

If you're using Photoshop (you don't say what tool you are using), then there's absolutely no reason to convert it to JPEG before printing. You can print your layered work-in-progress. So, I'd just work on your photo using your normal workflow, save to disk as a temporary PSD just so there's no chance you will lose your work, crop if needed for the test print, print your test print, undo the drop, then do some more editing if need be, print another test print if needed. If you want, you can also do a non-destructive crop which doesn't actually remove the cropped out pixels so it can be changed or undone at any time.

If you don't like cropping, printing and then undoing the crop, you can always just generate a duplicate image with Image/Duplicate, crop that one, print it, then get rid of the duplicate.

Dogdots

jfriend wrote:

If you're using Photoshop (you don't say what tool you are using), then there's absolutely no reason to convert it to JPEG before printing. You can print your layered work-in-progress. So, I'd just work on your photo using your normal workflow, save to disk as a temporary PSD just so there's no chance you will lose your work, crop if needed for the test print, print your test print, undo the drop, then do some more editing if need be, print another test print if needed. If you want, you can also do a non-destructive crop which doesn't actually remove the cropped out pixels so it can be changed or undone at any time.

If you don't like cropping, printing and then undoing the crop, you can always just generate a duplicate image with Image/Duplicate, crop that one, print it, then get rid of the duplicate.

John thank you so much. Sorry I should have said I was using Photoshop. This information helps me a lot. So simple, I should have been able to figure it out.

How do you do a non-destructive crop?

---

Mary

jfriend

Dogdots wrote:

John thank you so much. Sorry I should have said I was using Photoshop. This information helps me a lot. So simple, I should have been able to figure it out.

How do you do a non-destructive crop?

---

Mary

On any layered image (it isn't enabled for some reason on a single layer JPEG), select the crop tool, drag out your crop, the pick the radio button "Hide" in the crop toolbar before applying the crop. You can reverse it at any time later with Image/Reveal All. The result is a non-destructive crop that saves all your image bits, but prints and displays only the cropped area. This is a well hidden feature.

claudermilk

One hard-and-fast rule with digital imaging is you never, ever edit you original file. Always save any changes to a duplicate file so you have the untouched original to go back to.

To aid in this, I have my download utility flag all files as read-only when they are moved. That way I cannot accidentally save over an original.

Dogdots

jfriend wrote:

On any layered image (it isn't enabled for some reason on a single layer JPEG), select the crop tool, drag out your crop, the pick the radio button "Hide" in the crop toolbar before applying the crop. You can reverse it at any time later with Image/Reveal All. The result is a non-destructive crop that saves all your image bits, but prints and displays only the cropped area. This is a well hidden feature.

Thanks a bunch---so many tricks to learn.

---Mary

DJT

After I edit a photo and go to save it, I'll rename it with just adding an "e" to the end to let me know it was an edited file. Then I burn all the photos to a DVD; including the "e" files.

Then I'll burn another DVD; I'll do a batch rename of the files:
Kylebirthday10-2007-001 being the "001" is the sequence number. use at least 000 and not 00.

Okay, lunch time over, back to work. laters dogdots

BradfordBenn

I took an online seminar from Ed2Go.com that helped a lot. I also watch the Adobe Creative Suite Podcast. I figure though that just as soon as I get this version of software figured out, there will be an upgrade....

Dogdots

DJT wrote:

After I edit a photo and go to save it, I'll rename it with just adding an "e" to the end to let me know it was an edited file. Then I burn all the photos to a DVD; including the "e" files.

Then I'll burn another DVD; I'll do a batch rename of the files:
Kylebirthday10-2007-001 being the "001" is the sequence number. use at least 000 and not 00.

Okay, lunch time over, back to work. laters dogdots

It better be your lunch break . Gotta bring home the bacon---the wife will want another purse if she's like me .

I like the idea of just adding a "e" next to the photo.

So if I'm getting this right---each photo should have its own folder? Right?
That sounds the simplest to me.

----Mary

claudermilk

Each photo in it's own folder? Nah, that's a lot of directories. Just append a version notation. What I do is group the photos first by shoot date so: YYYY\YYYYMM\YYYYMMDD-Shoot Name is the root. Then within that I have RAW, Working, and Done directories. The files are initally downloaded to RAW. Then any in-process files go in Working and finished files go into Done. Each directory can be holding anywhere from one to several thousand files. The main thing is to not save over your original out-of-camera file.

Dogdots

claudermilk wrote:

Each photo in it's own folder? Nah, that's a lot of directories. Just append a version notation. What I do is group the photos first by shoot date so: YYYY\YYYYMM\YYYYMMDD-Shoot Name is the root. Then within that I have RAW, Working, and Done directories. The files are initally downloaded to RAW. Then any in-process files go in Working and finished files go into Done. Each directory can be holding anywhere from one to several thousand files. The main thing is to not save over your original out-of-camera file.

Sounds very easy and simple.

claudermilk

What makes it especially easy is that it's all done automatically. I use Downloader Pro & it's set to create all those directories, do the file renaming, put them in the appropriate directory, and set the read-only flag. All I have to do is insert the card, give a job name & hit go.

I also have the batching setup on other apps to append a version tag automatically, and some to save the files in the appropriate directory. A bit of extra groundwork up front has saved me an amazing amount of tedious grunt work in managing files down the line.

Dogdots

claudermilk wrote:

What makes it especially easy is that it's all done automatically. I use Downloader Pro & it's set to create all those directories, do the file renaming, put them in the appropriate directory, and set the read-only flag. All I have to do is insert the card, give a job name & hit go.

I also have the batching setup on other apps to append a version tag automatically, and some to save the files in the appropriate directory. A bit of extra groundwork up front has saved me an amazing amount of tedious grunt work in managing files down the line.

You do have a system that seems to flow well. Now I have to just get started on mine

LiquidAir

I do all my cropping in Lighroom even if I do my processing in Photoshop (Lighroom can import a PSD as long as it is in an RGB color space). Normally I just save a snapshot for each crop, but occasionally I'll make a virtual copy. One way or the other, each crop is just a database entry rather than a file on disk.

Dogdots

LiquidAir wrote:

I do all my cropping in Lighroom even if I do my processing in Photoshop (Lighroom can import a PSD as long as it is in an RGB color space). Normally I just save a snapshot for each crop, but occasionally I'll make a virtual copy. One way or the other, each crop is just a database entry rather than a file on disk.

When you do your cropping at what size do you crop at in LR?

Icebear

Lightroom
This discussion epitomizes why I went ahead and bought Lightroom. I really don't have the volume problems of a wedding or sports photographer who needs Lightroom just to import and catalog bazillions of RAW images. I just like it because it's SO easy to make snapshots or print from a prior state without having to save or save as or export or any of that crap. Lightroom just makes the whole process more enjoyable.

Dogdots

Icebear wrote:

This discussion epitomizes why I went ahead and bought Lightroom. I really don't have the volume problems of a wedding or sports photographer who needs Lightroom just to import and catalog bazillions of RAW images. I just like it because it's SO easy to make snapshots or print from a prior state without having to save or save as or export or any of that crap. Lightroom just makes the whole process more enjoyable.

Yes, I noticed in my trial of LR that it does seem so easy, but don't you ever take your photos from LR to another Photoshop to do any editing? Then just save as from there?

---Mary

colourbox

If I'm editing in Photoshop and I want a test print, I run an Action that uses the Image > Duplicate command to make a flattened second document of the one I'm working on. The action can even be recorded to resize the image if I always want a certain test size. That allows me to do anything to the duplicate, including crop it or utterly wreck it, and it doesn't affect the original since my first step was to make a duplicate. I often don't even save these test duplicates.

LiquidAir

Dogdots wrote:

When you do your cropping at what size do you crop at in LR?

I am not sure I understand the question, but here's a go a it:

A RAW file from my camera is 4368x2912 pixels. I edit that file in Photoshop, Lighroom converts it to a 16 Prophoto RGB .psd file with the same 4368x2912 resolution. I don't to any scaling or cropping in Photoshop, so that .psd file is still the same size when is reimported into Lightroom so I then specify a crop rectangle. That crop, along with any interpolation, bit depth change or color space conversion I want, gets applied when I export the file from Lightroom.

Icebear

Well, sure . . .

Dogdots wrote:

Yes, I noticed in my trial of LR that it does seem so easy, but don't you ever take your photos from LR to another Photoshop to do any editing? Then just save as from there?

---Mary

All the time. If you're editing a copy and go into PS, edit and "save", LR stacks your saved image with the original thumbnail. If you "save as" from PS, it doesn't go back into LR, but is just saved in wherever folder you specify. Once you have the TIF (or whatever format you use) back in LR, you can continue to play with it in LR without affecting your "original" edited image.

dmmattix

Dogdots wrote:

Yes, I noticed in my trial of LR that it does seem so easy, but don't you ever take your photos from LR to another Photoshop to do any editing? Then just save as from there?

---Mary

Mary,

That is another of the 'easy' things about LR. You right click the image and click "Edit in Photoshop" or what ever other editor you setup and it just goes to Photoshop. Even nicer, when you save the edited image in Photoshop it is automatically put back into LR and 'stacked' with the original raw image. Now you can configure it not to do the stacking but that seems to be the way it comes configured out of the box so to speak.

Regards,

Mike

Dogdots

Thanks everyone for you insight. Seems like LR is a pretty nifty thing for helping in the workflow

---

----Mary

Dogdots

LiquidAir wrote:

I am not sure I understand the question, but here's a go a it:

A RAW file from my camera is 4368x2912 pixels. I edit that file in Photoshop, Lighroom converts it to a 16 Prophoto RGB .psd file with the same 4368x2912 resolution. I don't to any scaling or cropping in Photoshop, so that .psd file is still the same size when is reimported into Lightroom so I then specify a crop rectangle. That crop, along with any interpolation, bit depth change or color space conversion I want, gets applied when I export the file from Lightroom.

You understood Thanks!

----Mary

Dogdots

colourbox wrote:

If I'm editing in Photoshop and I want a test print, I run an Action that uses the Image > Duplicate command to make a flattened second document of the one I'm working on. The action can even be recorded to resize the image if I always want a certain test size. That allows me to do anything to the duplicate, including crop it or utterly wreck it, and it doesn't affect the original since my first step was to make a duplicate. I often don't even save these test duplicates.

So my understanding is that after you do all your edits you can just do Image>Duplicate and crop the image and print it out to see if you like it. Then just delete the duplicate or keep it if you want that size in your file....Hey....if I ever want to print out a certain size then I can just pull the image up into PS and do an Image>Duplicate and crop it to size--Then just put my photo away for another day. Right?

No damage done to the original edited photo?

----Mary

jfriend

Dogdots wrote:

So my understanding is that after you do all your edits you can just do Image>Duplicate and crop the image and print it out to see if you like it. Then just delete the duplicate or keep it if you want that size in your file....Hey....if I ever want to print out a certain size then I can just pull the image up into PS and do an Image>Duplicate and crop it to size--Then just put my photo away for another day. Right?

No damage done to the original edited photo?

----Mary

Image duplicate will certainly work.

You can also do a non-destructive crop (one that crops for printing and viewing purposes, but doesn't throw any image bits away).

You can also save, crop, print and then undo the crop or just close without saving. For a quick print, I often just open the image, crop, print and close without saving (throwing away the crop and not changing my main version).

The safest is image duplicate since you never run the risk of accidentally saving a cropped version over your other edited version (because the duplicate gets a new filename), but it isn't the only way to do it.

Dogdots

jfriend wrote:

Image duplicate will certainly work.

You can also do a non-destructive crop (one that crops for printing and viewing purposes, but doesn't throw any image bits away).

You can also save, crop, print and then undo the crop or just close without saving. For a quick print, I often just open the image, crop, print and close without saving (throwing away the crop and not changing my main version).

The safest is image duplicate since you never run the risk of accidentally saving a cropped version over your other edited version (because the duplicate gets a new filename), but it isn't the only way to do it.

Awesome:ivar