Surprising Info on Lacie Monitor

Mrs F

I'm an amateur photography enthusiast and I have $1000 to spend on a new monitor and colorimeter. I've been researching monitors for months and there's a lot of conflicting information on the internet. I've also run into the problem of finding old info, where recommended models have been discontinued. I've seen brands/models that are highly recommended in one forum and trashed in the next forum. :scratch

I contacted the sales department at B&H to narrow my choices and the very nice guy there confirmed that I can't go wrong with Lacie or Eizo. When I mentioned Dell, he actually laughed and said, "no, no, no, no, no you don't want a Dell" (maybe because the problem of bate and switch panels?). The lowest price monitor that I could find in that category was the Lacie 319 or 320 with Blue eye.

I haven't bought the monitor yet because I read a review on a forum from a guy that needed nonwarranty repair on his new Lacie and he couldn't get it repaired. He said he clumsily dropped his new monitor and broke it. When he contacted Lacie, they said he could not get it repaired even if he wanted to pay for it. His new monitor had become a very expensive paper weight. I contacted Lacie sales directly and they indeed confirmed that they will not do any nonwarranty repairs on their monitors. I've also read some bad reviews about Lacie customer service.

My questions are: should this deter me from purchasing a Lacie 320 LCD with Blue Eye (I don't plan on dropping my monitor)? Has anyone out there ever needed to get a Lacie monitor repaired or dealt with their customer service? How long do LCD's usually last anyway?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Kari

cmason

Just a comment: I bought an expensive LCD HDTV. Part of my analysis was how the warranties work. The truth is this: These things are little more than a screen, and a small electronic board. If anything at all goes wrong, it is basically cheaper to buy a new TV, since there are few replaceable parts. In general, this is the way the warranty works: they just ship you a new one.

So its not surprising that there is no non-warranty repairs: there aren't any to be done. They don't stock parts. Even if they could the cost would be equal to a new TV.

My advice: buy the monitor that you need. Because there are fewer parts, fewer things to go wrong. CRT monitors have more bits, so more to go wrong. If you are worried about dropping it or damaging, make sure you have replacement insurance.

D_C_NC

Only real bad luck dropping a monitor as I would expect it to be as you said a very expensive paper weight. I do not think any company out there would try to rescue a severely damaged monitor , just not cost effective. Also NEC makes Lacie's monitors from what I have gathered. I am also looking to get a monitor and am , as you are , reading what I can to discern which monitor I wish to have sitting on my desk for the digital darkroom as there are so many. I have not checked out the customer service side of buying a monitor actually just still just trying to sort it all out... That said customer service is an important aspect but , I would not let it scare me away if I found a monitor that suited me.. http://www.necdisplay.com/AboutNEC/ http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/index.asp Sometimes I have been told the stores have refurbished monitors with warranties...... I am most likely will be getting an Eizo monitor....

Maldon

Eizo owner

D_C_NC wrote:

Only real bad luck dropping a monitor as I would expect it to be as you said a very expensive paper weight. I do not think any company out there would try to rescue a severely damaged monitor , just not cost effective. Also NEC makes Lacie's monitors from what I have gathered. I am also looking to get a monitor and am , as you are , reading what I can to discern which monitor I wish to have sitting on my desk for the digital darkroom as there are so many. I have not checked out the customer service side of buying a monitor actually just still just trying to sort it all out... That said customer service is an important aspect but , I would not let it scare me away if I found a monitor that suited me.. http://www.necdisplay.com/AboutNEC/ http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/index.asp Sometimes I have been told the stores have refurbished monitors with warranties...... I am most likely will be getting an Eizo monitor....

I am retired, been taking photos for 50 years. Researched printers, papers, cameras, lenses and screens. Had a lovely time. The best screen is Eizo. I have one in New Zealand and one in my home in Australia. Boy, are they expensive. But if you want the best, that's it. Use an EyeOne for calibration. You must match the monitor to the paper to the printer. Hope this helps.

Mrs F

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

CMason: my husband told me that was probably the case, that the warranty is simply shipping a new monitor. The warranty has to be part of the analysis for me when I'm plunking down that kind of cash for a monitor.

D_C_NC wrote:

Also NEC makes Lacie's monitors from what I have gathered.

Yes D_C_NC, I've heard this too. The guy that dropped his new Lacie monitor mentioned that the Lacie 320 is basically the same as the NEC Multisync 2090UXI, just repackaged with some customizations. However, according to this guy, NEC does do nonwarranty repairs. I have not confirmed this with NEC.

Maldon: I appreciate your advice also. The least expensive Eizo in the size I want goes a little over my budget, but when I hear glowing reviews like yours and others, it really makes me want to take the plunge. I've had my eye on the Eizo ColorEdge CE210W.

I was wondering about the average life of these LCD's. I found on B&H the panel life on the Eizo I mentioned above is 30,000 hours. The panel life of the NEC 2090UXi is 50,000 hours.

Kari

jogle

I was wondering about the average life of these LCD's. I found on B&H the panel life on the Eizo I mentioned above is 30,000 hours. The panel life of the NEC 2090UXi is 50,000 hours.

Kari

LCD pannels will start dimming from the minute they are turned on, The CFL backlight fades slowly and that's why some makers are starting to make screens with LCD backlights (the new macbook pros for example)

So you have to know how each maker measures "life". For the high end ones it can be untill the pannel is 70% as bright as when new and for the consumer level ones it can be 50% or lower.

Mrs F

jogle wrote:

LCD pannels will start dimming from the minute they are turned on, The CFL backlight fades slowly and that's why some makers are starting to make screens with LCD backlights (the new macbook pros for example)

So you have to know how each maker measures "life". For the high end ones it can be untill the pannel is 70% as bright as when new and for the consumer level ones it can be 50% or lower.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know there wasn't a standard for the "life" measurement. That makes comparisons of different brands a little more difficult. I'm thinking that the warranties on the Lacie and Eizo monitors cover the expected "life" of the monitor.

colourbox

One good thing about LCD life is that you may not need anywhere near the maximum brightness for correcting photos. When I calibrate my Apple display, the brightness level recommended by the calibration software is probably around 20% of full brightness. I understand that other brands are similarly bright. I hope that means that if the lamp lost over half its original brightness, it would still be able to reach the optimum brightness for calibration and color-correcting images. That might mean that an LCD could last long enough to see us through to when affordable LED-backlit monitors get here.

Dimming would only be a problem if the lamp started exhibiting nonlinear color response or uneven brightness.

D_C_NC

Mrs F wrote:

Thanks everyone for the feedback.





Yes D_C_NC, I've heard this too. The guy that dropped his new Lacie monitor mentioned that the Lacie 320 is basically the same as the NEC Multisync 2090UXI, just repackaged with some customizations. However, according to this guy, NEC does do nonwarranty repairs. I have not confirmed this with NEC.

Maldon: I appreciate your advice also. The least expensive Eizo in the size I want goes a little over my budget, but when I hear glowing reviews like yours and others, it really makes me want to take the plunge. I've had my eye on the Eizo ColorEdge CE210W.



Kari

Stay within your budget , it is too easy to sway over the line in this new to me world of digital... Good example here, I want but , do I need... No .... http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=d61cea64-a46e-4095-85b6-ed62136d058e

Mrs F

colourbox wrote:

One good thing about LCD life is that you may not need anywhere near the maximum brightness for correcting photos...
Dimming would only be a problem if the lamp started exhibiting nonlinear color response or uneven brightness.

Thanks for the info colourbox. All of this is new to me.

D_C_NC wrote:

Stay within your budget , it is too easy to sway over the line in this new to me world of digital

Wow, that's quite a monitor in the link! I'd only make a purchase like that if it could drive me to work too. You are so right about how easy it is to spend too much. I can talk myself into buying anything. I'm going to take your advice and stay within my budget.

eoren1

Hey Mrs F,
I just purchased a 20" widescreen LCD monitor from NEC that will be $375 after rebate. It has an S-IPS panel (best for photo editing) and I just calibrated it with the Monaco Optix XR (a good but discontinued colorimeter). Having come from a TN Dell panel, I was blown away. Colors and contrast don't change at all from any viewing angle. I am only at 20% brightness after calibration by the way.
The reason not to go with Dells is the bait&switch (aka "Dell lottery"). They bring out S-IPS monitors and then substitute in lower-grade panels without notice.
Here's the link for my monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002319
Hope this helps,
E

Mrs F

eoren1 wrote:

Hey Mrs F,
I just purchased a 20" widescreen LCD monitor from NEC that will be $375 after rebate. Here's the link for my monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002319
Hope this helps,
E

This looks like a nice monitor. I didn't see your suggestion until I already pulled out my plastic on the B&H website. I finally decided on the Lacie 320 with Blue Eye. Thanks everyone for the great advice.

Kari

cabbey

jogle wrote:

LCD pannels will start dimming from the minute they are turned on, The CFL backlight fades slowly and that's why some makers are starting to make screens with LCD backlights (the new macbook pros for example)

I think you meant LED backlights.

Pindy

The main reason I don't buy LaCie drives is that they don't do non-warrantee repairs on them as well. As a consumer of firewire drives, I've seen close to a dozen bridge boards or ports go bad in 10 years of buying these things, from all brands. They die, plain and simple. That kind of policy is not worth supporting.

arodney

LaCie is an OEM, they don't make any of their displays.

All displays (CRT, CCFL or LED) will wear out over time. The LED will last a lot longer but it will wear out. And there's a huge difference between the backlight LED's using one or three colors. The MacBook LCD's using LED's are nothing like the three color LED found in the NEC unit.

Luminance is based on ambient light conditions and how you'll view the print. Anyone calibrating over say 150cd/m2 needs sun glasses. Out of the box, most modern CCFL LCD's can do 250, maybe 300. So you have plenty of extra horsepower. And in three years, you'll wonder why you are using a CCFL LCD anyway.

Mrs F

pindy wrote:

As a consumer of firewire drives, I've seen close to a dozen bridge boards or ports go bad in 10 years of buying these things, from all brands. They die, plain and simple. That kind of policy is not worth supporting.

I'm crossing my fingers that this monitor will last me a long time (and I'll keep my toddler's sticky fingers off of it).

arodney wrote:

...Luminance is based on ambient light conditions and how you'll view the print. Anyone calibrating over say 150cd/m2 needs sun glasses. Out of the box, most modern CCFL LCD's can do 250, maybe 300. So you have plenty of extra horsepower. And in three years, you'll wonder why you are using a CCFL LCD anyway.

Good point, thanks Andrew!

I got my new Lacie display in the mail on Friday and I carefully set it up and tried to calibrate it. I must have spent more than 10 hours trying to get it to calibrate but no dice. I was so disappointed...and my images on the new monitor looked terrible. I suspected that it might be a problem with my wimpy video card (even though it was supposedly compatible with this monitor) so I bought and installed a new video card the next day (another $150, on sale ) and now it works beautifully! This Lacie display is a great piece of hardware and the calibration (after getting a new video card) was super easy with the Blue Eye. I'm very happy with my purchase.

Kari

jeffmandell

Recommended Large Display?
Andrew,
I can't quite follow your post, but no one has better credentials than yours. What do you recommend these days for a top display?
I currently have a 23" Cinema Display, but would likesomething larger.
My online research has turned up the LaCie 5256 (which I've read may be the same as one of the NEC displays); the Apple 30"; the new Eizo 30" (coming soon, and less expensive than prior Eizos, but it looks like it may need two graphic cards) and the Dell 30".
Naturally at these prices I'd like the display to be as accurate as possible for soft proofing fine art photography.

It's really hard to figure out what's what out there. I'd really appreciate some help.
Thanks.

(p.s. At what brightness level would you suggest calibrating my current cinema display?)

arodney

jeffmandell wrote:

Andrew,
What do you recommend these days for a top display?
I currently have a 23" Cinema Display, but would likesomething larger.
My online research has turned up the LaCie 5256 (which I've read may be the same as one of the NEC displays); the Apple 30"; the new Eizo 30" (coming soon, and less expensive than prior Eizos, but it looks like it may need two graphic cards) and the Dell 30".


(p.s. At what brightness level would you suggest calibrating my current cinema display?)

Best bang for the buck are the pro LCD's from NEC being driven by their SpectraView II software. That would be the NEC 2640 or 2690 (wide gamut display).

Just because NEC OEM's an NEC, doesn't mean its the same quality! They don't get first pick, they may not have the necessary bundled software and colorimeter.

I calibrate my 2690 to 150 cd/m2.

jeffmandell

Just because NEC OEM's an NEC, doesn't mean its the same quality! They don't get first pick, they may not have the necessary bundled software and colorimeter.

Andrew,
Wow. I never thought of that!
They keep the good stuff and OEM the rest?
Sheesh.
OK, a couple of follow up questions, if I might:
1. What colorimeter are you using? Theirs? And do you use NEC's calibration software (as opposed to Color Eyes)?
2. I can't find a 2640. Do you perhaps mean the smaller 2490? If so, I don't think that would give me anything of a size bump up.
3. Finally, do you think this is a worthwhile upgrade from my Apple Cinema Display?
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer these.

arodney

jeffmandell wrote:

OK, a couple of follow up questions, if I might:
1. What colorimeter are you using? Theirs? And do you use NEC's calibration software (as opposed to Color Eyes)?
2. I can't find a 2640. Do you perhaps mean the smaller 2490? If so, I don't think that would give me anything of a size bump up.
3. Finally, do you think this is a worthwhile upgrade from my Apple Cinema Display?
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer these.

I'm using an EyeOne Display-2.
The correct model (I messed up) is 2490. That's a 24 inch unit, sRGB.
Yes, you should use their software! That's key. It fully controls the calibration of the unit (DDC). Skip ColorEyes!

jeffmandell

Andrew,
There's just one question you didn't answer:
Do you think I'll see much difference (or perhaps I should say, get an appreciable increase in accuracy) if I replace my three year old Cinema Display with one of these?
Thanks for all this. It's much appreciated.
Jeff

arodney

jeffmandell wrote:

Andrew,
There's just one question you didn't answer:
Do you think I'll see much difference (or perhaps I should say, get an appreciable increase in accuracy) if I replace my three year old Cinema Display with one of these?
Thanks for all this. It's much appreciated.
Jeff

I also have a 23" Cinema for the business machine. Nice but its not 2690!

What the NEC does very well is control purity, its pretty darn even for an LCD. As for calibration with the SpectraView II software, its a lot better in terms of results and ease of use then the software that comes with the EyeOne Display Colorimeter since you have to do this all manually with that product.

jeffmandell

Whoops.
Wild card entry: I just found the new Eizo 30" that's about to become available.
It's very expensive, but not that much more than the comparable Cinema Display, and it's claiming a whopping 98 or 99% of Adobe RGB.
I can't quite tell if you can run it on one graphic card or not. It looks like it's intended to run two different inputs at once, or at lest two pages at once - kind of a specialty display.
Any comments on this one?

arodney

jeffmandell wrote:

Whoops.
Wild card entry: I just found the new Eizo 30" that's about to become available.

Any comments on this one?

My comment would be, unless you have big bucks burning a hole in your pocket, don't rush out and get one. Others, probably as good and less expensive are coming....

jeffmandell

Others, probably as good and less expensive are coming....[/quote]

Hmmm...
What kind of time frame might we be surmising about?
I just sent off for your book, btw.

arodney

jeffmandell wrote:

Others, probably as good and less expensive are coming....

Hmmm...
What kind of time frame might we be surmising about?
I just sent off for your book, btw.[/QUOTE]

First quarter next year give or take.