Andi's unofficial 1MP printing test

photogmomma

I have been telling my clients that a 1MP digital download was fine for 4x6 and even up to 5x7. This was after looking at SM's suggested minimum resolutions for printing. This was quite a long time ago, but I believe I also printed something to see how it looked at 5x7 and I was satisfied...

So a few days ago, I saw it mentioned that a 1MP download was suitable for online, but not for printing - that wasn't the intention of SM. So I started to second guess myself. Was it suitable? Could I print up to 5x7? Or had I been lying to my clients all along? (My intention IS to give them a file that will print at 5x7 but NOT at 8x10 without major pixelization.) Was I going to have to go back to all my clients and email them the images I promised them? What would I do in the future....

So I did another test yesterday. This test was unscientific and just a quick one to see if I was right/wrong/otherwised. Here are the steps I took using my home printer (HP 7500) and PSCS2 to crop my image and Lightroom and PS to print them:

• Selected a photo that had a low ISO as well as some very fine detail. (Note: This photo was NOT optimized for color - I just converted it in LR quickly so there is lost detail in the shadows of the hair.)
• Opened it in PSCS2 and printed it to 5x7 at full resolution (about 10MP)
• Cropped it using PSCS2 to about 1MP (850x1190) - this is the resolution images I send to my clients after I've fully edited the photo if they've purchased a download
• Printed that cropped image at 5x7
• Shocked at the nice print I got so I....
• Saved it and went back to LR.
• Printed again at 5x7 - same results.
• Printed it again at 8x10

So my thoughts on the prints? Both 5x7's were perfect. Although this could have been done more scientifically, I was very pleased with the results - the images were definitely printable at this resolution and I know my clients will be happy with what they get (printing house needs to be good, obviously).

But my shock was the 8x10. I expected at least a little pixelization. Something that might be acceptable to others and heinous to me. But that's not what I got - I got a very acceptable print. Unfortunately.

Do I think it's professional quality? No. Would *I* sell an 8x10 printed from a 1MP file? No, I wouldn't. But when I asked two non-professional people, they felt that it was perfectly fine and would be happy to hang that print on the wall.

A FEW OTHER NOTES: You have to remember that I printed this on a low end printer (it's about 3 or 4 years old) and that I didn't optimize my image. And I actually am not sure of the exact resolution that SM sends my clients (I should, but since I usually replace them, I doubt it's an issue.) I also don't know how they resize the images - LR or PSCS2 may have better algorithms - or may not. And I used an image that probably wasn't perfect for this.... I hadn't really intended on posting this here, but realized it might be helpful for others.

CONCLUSIONS: But my final conclusions are that I will just continue business as I have. I will put a disclaimer that the images will print to 5x7, but not larger and hope that my clients don't realize it. (But they might.) I will continue to hope that SM will eventually allow us to provide custom sized digital downloads from watermarked images. (I know there are probably 100 FR for this!) And I just accept the fact that 8x10 prints from a 1mp image are probably acceptable to most non-professionals.

But I would like for SM to realize that a 1MP image *IS* printable larger than they "recommend". I'm not upset about the size, but I'm a little annoyed that they say it's not intended for printing that large. Well, no, it's not intended, but it *does* print decently. Why do I want them to admit it to the pros? Because I'm sure there are some that are thinking, "Well, gosh! SM said that it's not intended to be printed larger than X (4x6?) so that means I don't have to worry about it! It's not really worth that much." Or whatever. People make business decisions when they trust someone (SM) and I would hate for people to realize that it *is* printable to 8x10 acceptably and have them realize they made a HUGE business mistake.

Here is a shot of the 3 images together. I was looking mainly at the detail in the hair on the forehead. Click on the image to see the original (about 4MB - just under 12MP).


I would love to hear other comments - has anyone else done this? If not, please do - I am perfectly willing to admit that I messed up somewhere along the way and achieved bogus results.

I think i will eventually order a few prints from the 1MP images I'll upload at some point, but that's probably a ways away. I would like to see how SM/EZ Prints will print them... Probably better than me! :rofl

Thanks so much!

dhlewis

thanks for sharing this information, although not "scientific" it is still very helpful. I just assumed that the 1mp file would not even make a good 4" x 6" now I have to rethink if I'm even going to offer this size.

SM, really need to help customers with pro accounts; the whole print pricing and download needs a big upgrade.

Andy

http://www.smugmug.com/prints/digital-downloads
http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

are two places we talk about resolution. Am I missing something somewhere - quite possible - please let me know? I'm not aware of a place where we say 1 megapixel won't make a print of any quality - but we do say that more pixels makes a better print.... Again, it's quite possible as our help pages have grown, that there might be something out there that I'm missing - please let me know

dhlewis

Andi, no hijack intended.

I am probably the person "missing something" but although I really like and promote SM I find it to be a royal PITA to keep track of where to look for everything or something I saw once. Now where did I see that ?? was it in the forums (if so which one), the WIKI, SM help. I am sure for the folks that are focused on helping others they can put their finger on everything within seconds but for me it often turns into 10 minutes of hunting.

Regarding the Low-Res (1Mpix) download I stated "I assumed" that 4x6 would not print well. Maybe we need a really low res download that will only look acceptable if viewed from the web. I shoot a lot of high school sports and kids want downloads for their myspace pages. I cannot offer them a low cost download without jeopardizing the 4x6 and 5x7 sales.

photogmomma

Andy,

It was in this thread: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=74150&highlight=print that I got freaked out... When you say "you can print a 4x6, but...." it lead me to believe that the quality would be really crummy. and anything larger would be even worse! I really stressed about this for several days before I had time to actually test that....

Sure, I know that as PROS we wouldn't print from something at such a low rez, but as a consumer, that happens all the time. And to know that selling a 1MP image could cut into my sales larger than 5x7, well.... I may rethink my pricing!

While I am ambivalent if it's not in the help files (mainly because customers are much more likely to see it agree!), I would like to hear something from SM in the forums that talks a bit more in depth about this - not something implying it won't print well...

Thanks so much!

photogmomma

dhlewis wrote:

Regarding the Low-Res (1Mpix) download I stated "I assumed" that 4x6 would not print well. Maybe we need a really low res download that will only look acceptable if viewed from the web. I shoot a lot of high school sports and kids want downloads for their myspace pages. I cannot offer them a low cost download without jeopardizing the 4x6 and 5x7 sales.

I know what you mean. I assumed for a long time that a 1MP print would be bad.... And I know that not all pros have the time to test this out - heck, I only found the time because i have customers that could be directly affected by this! Good luck in your decision.

One thing you could consider - create a google checkout "Buy It" button and allow them to choose the number of downloads they want and YOU email them a small version that won't print - they could put a comment below the images they want to purchase. Not a pretty workaround, but something I've considered.

Andy

dhlewis wrote:

Andi, no hijack intended.

I am probably the person "missing something" but although I really like and promote SM I find it to be a royal PITA to keep track of where to look for everything or something I saw once. Now where did I see that ?? was it in the forums (if so which one), the WIKI, SM help.

We have lots of info. Official word and help is always in our help pages http://www.smugmug.com/help

Lots of useful info is in our Forums, here, and on our Wiki.

As always, you SHOULD NEVER BE AT SEA just ask, anytime, anywhere (here or at the help desk) if you aren't finding what you need.

We are constantly trying to improve the organization, searching, layout, faqs, etc. There's a lot of stuff

aktpics

Andi,

Thanks for doing all that research! I am still a ways away from getting my site up and running. This is one of the things I am still debating, whether I offer downloads, what size, how much etc.

A couple of things come to mind. First, image quality is so subjective. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an 8.5 x 11 print from an inkjet printed on plain laser paper on someones fridge. Most likely from a 480x640 image, but who could tell.

Second, isn't a mega pixel 1,048,576 pixels (1024x1024)? I only assume it is because I am a computer geek. If so, then the minimum for an 8x10 (800x1000) is less than that.

Also, photoshop does a really nice job of upsampling...

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about what you told your clients. Most of the time a 1mp will not print a suitable 8x10, in your (and my) opinion.

Good luck...

photogmomma

aktpics wrote:

Andi,

Thanks for doing all that research! I am still a ways away from getting my site up and running. This is one of the things I am still debating, whether I offer downloads, what size, how much etc.

A couple of things come to mind. First, image quality is so subjective. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an 8.5 x 11 print from an inkjet printed on plain laser paper on someones fridge. Most likely from a 480x640 image, but who could tell.

Second, isn't a mega pixel 1,048,576 pixels (1024x1024)? I only assume it is because I am a computer geek. If so, then the minimum for an 8x10 (800x1000) is less than that.

Also, photoshop does a really nice job of upsampling...

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about what you told your clients. Most of the time a 1mp will not print a suitable 8x10, in your (and my) opinion.

Good luck...

Of course! You're right about 1MP... I've been screwing my customers. Doh! Thanks for pointing that out...

Yeah, I think that I'll just stick with what I'm doing - telling 'em not to print above 5x7 - I may add something that says it's intended for 4x6, though....

It took me a long time to decide whether or not to offer them. But I felt it was "part of the deal" for doing portraits. The question is always pricing. I have sold a decent amount of them, but not tons and tons. So I think my pricing is accurate. ($30 for a download.) But that's a tough question for everyone! Good luck with your decision!

dogwood

So I used to tell my customers they could print "up to an 8x10" from the 1MP download, but then I saw something about it really being better for a 5x7. So I changed my wording to say the downloads will print 5x7's.

Since most of my print/download sales are from events, how I handle the downloads now is to charge more for a 1MP download than I do for a 5x7 print AND they only get the jpeg straight from the camera -- no retouching at all.

I offer retouching on all my prints and make it VERY clear that if they want any retouching, color correction, etc, they need to order a print.

And yeah, it's been an oft repeated request for a web res only download. Still crossing my fingers on that one and I'm sure SM has it on their to do list. Unfortunately, if SM's "to do" list is as long as mine, I can understand all too well why it's still on the list and not crossed off!

photogmomma

dogwood wrote:

Unfortunately, if SM's "to do" list is as long as mine, I can understand all too well why it's still on the list and not crossed off!

Ahhh! So very true!

bham

I won't sell digital download until I can offer a smaller version than the 1MP size.