On a more serious note, everything about MS is disgusting. Let's sell our souls to Devil! Monopoly never stops, does it? :nah
Not everything. Their r&d lab is doing some really cool stuff. Unfortunately Microsoft has a habit of getting in their own way and much of that stuff gets bloated or absorbed on its way up the chain. Think of a bill going through Congress.
Everyone has a price for "things," but Smugmug is more than a thing. I think, from what I've ready from these guys before there are two key reasons we don't have to worry about a sale:
1) This company is their dream, and the dream isn't complete until the name and brand-recognition rivals that of the greats (Starbucks, Apple, MS, etc.) They want Smugmug to be THE name everyone thinks of when they're talking about photography and the internet.
2) They're way too young to retire, so what would they do with their time? They'd have to work or they'd go nuts with boredom. If you have to work, why not work in your dream company with some of your favorite people around you and customers who are as passonate about your product as you are?
Maybe the day comes when they do sell. But I would bet it's a long, long way off when none of them have the ability or the desire to work here anymore. Even then I bet they don't sell out to MS or Google until after they give all of us first right of refusal.
Just my two cents, but I think its pretty accurate.
...and that's why I found the concept laughable. Sometimes "not for sale" really means just that. It's jsut part of the attraction of being a customer here.
No -- no they don't. There are plenty of things I would not do for any amount of money from anyone. Money can be nice, but being able to sleep at night is nicer.
Vista was the straw the broke this Microsoft analyst back
I have supported corporate servers and clients for 10 years, all unfortunately Microsoft products. Recently I purchased windows Vista Ultimate $399.00 (need to stay ahead of the curve). Vista was the straw the broke this Microsoft analysts back. I have purchased a use G4 laptop and am currently in some what of a learning curve. I still have to keep my PC up an running for Remote access to work for now….
“I love not man the less, but Nature more.”
— Lord Byron
... Vista was the straw the broke this Microsoft analysts back. I have purchased a use G4 laptop … .
Cool. I'm slowly moving away from the Windows env't as well. And I've been using it since DOS days. Was a Mac user in the begining too. (In fact the Apple Lisa was the first real box I fell for.)
So I thought I'd throw my two cents in here and mention that -- if you're going to invest in a new learning curve anyway -- you might want to check out the Linux world. It is a very valid alternative. All kinds of very cool and functional applications.
And you don't have to put the family jewels on the table to keep it running.
I have supported corporate servers and clients for 10 years, all unfortunately Microsoft products. Recently I purchased windows Vista Ultimate $399.00 (need to stay ahead of the curve). Vista was the straw the broke this Microsoft analysts back. I have purchased a use G4 laptop and am currently in some what of a learning curve. I still have to keep my PC up an running for Remote access to work for now….
odd....do like the rest: ignore Vista and sit on XP, Server 2003. They make life good, compatible, robust and easily supportable. It's the MS way.
This isnt a serious threat to anyone & I'll tell you why. Has Microsoft ever taken the lead of any product that has already been established in the marketplace?? They may have some semi-successful ones here & there (Zune, Xbox, etc), but never (to my knowledge) have they crushed a leader in an established market. And I dont see them doing it in the photo market because there are already some VERY good options out there currently. They seem like they are always playing the catch up game.
MS mostly rely on what they've done in the distant past & their current user base to push their new stuff. I always said that if MS was a brand new company, not nearly as many people would ever consider using their products, because truthfully, they're 3rd rate. Some are good, but most are mediocre.
Not bashing them. Im a Mac user most the time, but I do use some of their stuff (including Windows), but its true.
This isnt a serious threat to anyone & I'll tell you why. Has Microsoft ever taken the lead of any product that has already been established in the marketplace?? They may have some semi-successful ones here & there (Zune, Xbox, etc), but never (to my knowledge) have they crushed a leader in an established market. And I dont see them doing it in the photo market because there are already some VERY good options out there currently. They seem like they are always playing the catch up game.
MS mostly rely on what they've done in the distant past & their current user base to push their new stuff. I always said that if MS was a brand new company, not nearly as many people would ever consider using their products, because truthfully, they're 3rd rate. Some are good, but most are mediocre.
Not bashing them. Im a Mac user most the time, but I do use some of their stuff (including Windows), but its true.
you a netscape user? why not? because they were crushed. Use Ami Pro lately? Lotus 1-2-3? Quattro Pro? Wordperfect? Novell anyone?
you a netscape user? why not? because they were crushed. Use Ami Pro lately? Lotus 1-2-3? Quattro Pro? Wordperfect? Novell anyone?
Very true, but in fairness all those were back in Microsoft's hayday when all this personal computer stuff was in its infancy. A lot of those you mentioned were pushed (while competitors were basically forced out, like Netscape) onto Windows users in very monopolistic fashion. In the instances there was a choice, people usually didnt know any better at that time or didnt care to use anything that didnt come on their computer.
But I did say "ever" when I guess I should have said "lately", as in the last 8-10 years or so.
Very true, but in fairness all those were back in Microsoft's hayday when all this personal computer stuff was in its infancy. A lot of those you mentioned were pushed (while competitors were basically forced out, like Netscape) onto Windows users in very monopolistic fashion. In the instances there was a choice, people usually didnt know any better at that time or didnt care to use anything that didnt come on their computer.
But I did say "ever" when I guess I should have said "lately", as in the last 8-10 years or so.
Very true, but in fairness all those were back in Microsoft's hayday when all this personal computer stuff was in its infancy. A lot of those you mentioned were pushed (while competitors were basically forced out, like Netscape) onto Windows users in very monopolistic fashion. In the instances there was a choice, people usually didnt know any better at that time or didnt care to use anything that didnt come on their computer.
But I did say "ever" when I guess I should have said "lately", as in the last 8-10 years or so.
Just a couple of observations from someone paid to track MSFT professionally (not a fanboy or a hater, just an observer).
1) Most recently: XBOX is the newest "real-deal" when just a couple of years ago Conventional Wisdom scoffed at MSFT's ability to compete in this arena. They made the big $$ investments... now they can compete effectively and make profits over the long-term.
2) Most under-the-cover: their Server & Tools division is new-ish gem (not been around as long as Office or OS, but does materially meet your 8-10 year target). Most folks with a consumer perspective are relatively unaware of this business line. In 2007, just this division racked up $11b in sales and $3.8b in operating income. As a point of reference, in 2007 Apple had US sales of $11.6b and had operating income of $2.95b. A more relevant reference point, in 2007 SUN had sales of $13.3b and only $625m of operating income. And not too long ago, Conventional Wisdom said MSFT just COULDN'T be a player in this space.
Sure, there are plenty of reasons to dislike MSFT; whatever, I hate Vista too from a user-POV. My only point here is that MSFT has a long history of being told by the market that they "cannot" do something. They don't always get it right, but they are unafraid to try, have the money to burn, and (usually) learn from their mistakes.
All that being said, don't sweat a potenial SM buy-out. Likely won't happen unless MSFT gives the owners enough money to cure cancer...in which case I hope they take the money and cure the disease.
I dunno how the rest of you feel about smuggy but for me, I cant help the feelings that come over me when im on some site and some says something like.. Blahh blahh blahh is better than smug mug... look they are only $50.00.. or they offer more than smug mug.. they have a better interface, they look cooler..blahh blahh blahh.. i just wanna reach through the screen and choke the life out of the litter buggers... i cant believe anyone would even say that.. i havent come across any site like smuggy that can even come CLOSE to what Smug mug offers. I have said it before and ill say it again and again and again.... i have had nothing but greatness from smuggy, i have never heard any smug mug member talk bad of it and i have never seen any other site offer as much and even look as good. folks, this site is worth waaay more than MS or anyone would have... if the owner sells it, he is short changing himself BIG TIME!!
I'm not trying to derail the thread - really - but in response to the above thread, competition is good. SM isn't perfect. They still to my knowledge don't have proof delay for digital downloads, and don't allow us to customize our product lists, nor have built in self-fulfillment features. (One would have to circumvent their entire shopping cart, which IMO would be silly considering SM's already relatively high yearly pro fee.) The point is, SM can stand to learn a few things from the competition and vice-versa. I do love SM's display options above all others I've seen and their customer service is truly second to none -but there are features missing availible elsewhere. Please don't choke me, I'm just looking for the best overall value. Competition keeps things moving forward and holds prices in check. SM probably benefits as much or more from people vocally speaking about its shortfalls than continuous praise.
I'm not trying to derail the thread - really - but in response to the above thread, competition is good. SM isn't perfect. They still to my knowledge don't have proof delay for digital downloads, and don't allow us to customize our product lists, nor have built in self-fulfillment features. (One would have to circumvent their entire shopping cart, which IMO would be silly considering SM's already relatively high yearly pro fee.) The point is, SM can stand to learn a few things from the competition and vice-versa. I do love SM's display options above all others I've seen and their customer service is truly second to none -but there are features missing availible elsewhere. Please don't choke me, I'm just looking for the best overall value. Competition keeps things moving forward and holds prices in check. SM probably benefits as much or more from people vocally speaking about its shortfalls than continuous praise.
well, i find its perfect for me, i have experienced no issues at all with it. I agree, competition is a great thing, esp for us consumers but I honestly dont think any one of the competition even comes close to Smuggy.. not at all. You remind me though, i gotta go make sure i turned off my digital DL feature... i really dont want to sell my digital files except for stock.. well, at least for images i dont want used as stock. I dont like to give up the files..
I'm not trying to derail the thread - really - but in response to the above thread, competition is good. SM isn't perfect. They still to my knowledge don't have proof delay for digital downloads, and don't allow us to customize our product lists, nor have built in self-fulfillment features. (One would have to circumvent their entire shopping cart, which IMO would be silly considering SM's already relatively high yearly pro fee.) The point is, SM can stand to learn a few things from the competition and vice-versa. I do love SM's display options above all others I've seen and their customer service is truly second to none -but there are features missing availible elsewhere. Please don't choke me, I'm just looking for the best overall value. Competition keeps things moving forward and holds prices in check. SM probably benefits as much or more from people vocally speaking about its shortfalls than continuous praise.
Good points. SM definietely has some things to improve, and if you look in the support areas (I know you do...), you'll see they hear plenty about where they fall short. The good thing is I see SM staff actively participating in those threads & some of the new features seem to be direct results of those threads.
If MS does get it right, well, competition is always good.
Eugh, Ars is so smug. I like the way they accuse MS of copying the iPhone within the first paragraph, even though touch screen Windows Mobile devices have been around for 5+ years.
Good points. SM definietely has some things to improve, and if you look in the support areas (I know you do...), you'll see they hear plenty about where they fall short. The good thing is I see SM staff actively participating in those threads & some of the new features seem to be direct results of those threads.
If MS does get it right, well, competition is always good.
I have to say, having just ordered my xmas merchandise from SM, mousepad, xmas cards, mugs, and fridge magnets, I am completely impressed. Not only was the interface for ordering a masterpiece of elegance and simplicity, the merchandise showed up within just a few days and the quality exceeded my wildest hopes. The competitor to which I've been comparing SM provides a couple of extra services, but holy moly.. SM couldn't have possibly been any more polished on this order. I've really been wanting to defect but (now especially) I just can't pull myself away. Great job on the Christmas order, guys. Chances are very high I'll extend my subscription another year and more importantly I'll let fellow photographers on my native message board know. It's cheaper over there for the seller, and the quality is as high, but the purchasing experience over here is far and away the superior of the two.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited December 9, 2007
Thanks for the kind words, Hindsight.
Between the lab we use and ourselves, we decided awhile ago that the most important thing we could do is ship orders faster. There were competitors faster than us and customers have become addicted to the fast fulfillment they see at Amazon.
Fortunately, the guys at EZ Prints made fast shipping their mantra.
I have to say, having just ordered my xmas merchandise from SM, mousepad, xmas cards, mugs, and fridge magnets, I am completely impressed. Not only was the interface for ordering a masterpiece of elegance and simplicity, the merchandise showed up within just a few days and the quality exceeded my wildest hopes. The competitor to which I've been comparing SM provides a couple of extra services, but holy moly.. SM couldn't have possibly been any more polished on this order. I've really been wanting to defect but (now especially) I just can't pull myself away. Great job on the Christmas order, guys. Chances are very high I'll extend my subscription another year and more importantly I'll let fellow photographers on my native message board know. It's cheaper over there for the seller, and the quality is as high, but the purchasing experience over here is far and away the superior of the two.
Well, I didnt wanna say "I told ya so" But.......
lol...
I just absolutly LOVE smuggy and their customer service. Yes compitition is good, even great but, ya gotta give credit to the champ! I recently AGAIN had to email cust svs and not only did they reply back within the huor, they reshipped my order ( it seems the USPS either beat someone over the head with my print or used it to hold their truck up whilst changing the tire!) lol
I appreciate the corps and not corporate loyalty shown by baldy, et al.
However, it might not be such a bad idea to sell out to the Redmond boys, and then open up shop somewhere else. Let's look at the strengths of microsoft:
1. They know how to copy
2. They know how to leverage a strong market position to crush potential rivals.
3. hmmmm... that's really about it.
Microsoft will, inexorably, muck up the works because what they don't know anything about is customer service. And this kind of site is all about service.
Move your site to www.mugsmug.com, wait 18 months, then buy the original site back from a chastened Msft.
As this is my brilliant idea, it would be a mitzvah if you would kick over 10% or so of the Msft purchase price to me.
Comments
http://www.smugmug.com/aboutus/jobs.mg
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www.intruecolors.com
Nikon D700 x2/D300
Nikon 70-200 2.8/50 1.8/85 1.8/14.24 2.8
Can I still apply even if I don't have an accounting background?
www.tednghiem.com
...and that's why I found the concept laughable. Sometimes "not for sale" really means just that. It's jsut part of the attraction of being a customer here.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
An oversweetened fashion accessory actuated by pushrods?
(sorry sir, no disrespect, I just.... had to. )
Canon 40d | Canon 17-40 f/4L | Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 | Canon 50mm f/1.8 | Canon 70-200mm f/4 L
No -- no they don't. There are plenty of things I would not do for any amount of money from anyone. Money can be nice, but being able to sleep at night is nicer.
Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
website blog instagram facebook g+
Will
________________________
www.willspix.smugmug.com
I have supported corporate servers and clients for 10 years, all unfortunately Microsoft products. Recently I purchased windows Vista Ultimate $399.00 (need to stay ahead of the curve). Vista was the straw the broke this Microsoft analysts back. I have purchased a use G4 laptop and am currently in some what of a learning curve. I still have to keep my PC up an running for Remote access to work for now….
— Lord Byron
Link to my Smugmug site
ouch. did you just compare us to Phil Askey? :cry
Cool. I'm slowly moving away from the Windows env't as well. And I've been using it since DOS days. Was a Mac user in the begining too. (In fact the Apple Lisa was the first real box I fell for.)
So I thought I'd throw my two cents in here and mention that -- if you're going to invest in a new learning curve anyway -- you might want to check out the Linux world. It is a very valid alternative. All kinds of very cool and functional applications.
And you don't have to put the family jewels on the table to keep it running.
Certainly looks that way. But is that a bad thing?
www.tednghiem.com
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
odd....do like the rest: ignore Vista and sit on XP, Server 2003. They make life good, compatible, robust and easily supportable. It's the MS way.
Not lately... I guess I haven't really paid any attention at DPR lately.. haha!
www.tednghiem.com
MS mostly rely on what they've done in the distant past & their current user base to push their new stuff. I always said that if MS was a brand new company, not nearly as many people would ever consider using their products, because truthfully, they're 3rd rate. Some are good, but most are mediocre.
Not bashing them. Im a Mac user most the time, but I do use some of their stuff (including Windows), but its true.
you a netscape user? why not? because they were crushed. Use Ami Pro lately? Lotus 1-2-3? Quattro Pro? Wordperfect? Novell anyone?
But I did say "ever" when I guess I should have said "lately", as in the last 8-10 years or so.
oh yea, and, uh, Yahoo
Just a couple of observations from someone paid to track MSFT professionally (not a fanboy or a hater, just an observer).
1) Most recently: XBOX is the newest "real-deal" when just a couple of years ago Conventional Wisdom scoffed at MSFT's ability to compete in this arena. They made the big $$ investments... now they can compete effectively and make profits over the long-term.
2) Most under-the-cover: their Server & Tools division is new-ish gem (not been around as long as Office or OS, but does materially meet your 8-10 year target). Most folks with a consumer perspective are relatively unaware of this business line. In 2007, just this division racked up $11b in sales and $3.8b in operating income. As a point of reference, in 2007 Apple had US sales of $11.6b and had operating income of $2.95b. A more relevant reference point, in 2007 SUN had sales of $13.3b and only $625m of operating income. And not too long ago, Conventional Wisdom said MSFT just COULDN'T be a player in this space.
Sure, there are plenty of reasons to dislike MSFT; whatever, I hate Vista too from a user-POV. My only point here is that MSFT has a long history of being told by the market that they "cannot" do something. They don't always get it right, but they are unafraid to try, have the money to burn, and (usually) learn from their mistakes.
All that being said, don't sweat a potenial SM buy-out. Likely won't happen unless MSFT gives the owners enough money to cure cancer...in which case I hope they take the money and cure the disease.
www.theanimalhaven.com :thumb
Visit us at: www.northeastfoto.com a forum for northeastern USA Photogs to meet. :wink
Canon 30D, some lenses and stuff... I think im tired or something, i have a hard time concentrating.. hey look, a birdie!:clap
regular site
oo
smug site
well, i find its perfect for me, i have experienced no issues at all with it. I agree, competition is a great thing, esp for us consumers but I honestly dont think any one of the competition even comes close to Smuggy.. not at all. You remind me though, i gotta go make sure i turned off my digital DL feature... i really dont want to sell my digital files except for stock.. well, at least for images i dont want used as stock. I dont like to give up the files..
www.theanimalhaven.com :thumb
Visit us at: www.northeastfoto.com a forum for northeastern USA Photogs to meet. :wink
Canon 30D, some lenses and stuff... I think im tired or something, i have a hard time concentrating.. hey look, a birdie!:clap
Good points. SM definietely has some things to improve, and if you look in the support areas (I know you do...), you'll see they hear plenty about where they fall short. The good thing is I see SM staff actively participating in those threads & some of the new features seem to be direct results of those threads.
If MS does get it right, well, competition is always good.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I have to say, having just ordered my xmas merchandise from SM, mousepad, xmas cards, mugs, and fridge magnets, I am completely impressed. Not only was the interface for ordering a masterpiece of elegance and simplicity, the merchandise showed up within just a few days and the quality exceeded my wildest hopes. The competitor to which I've been comparing SM provides a couple of extra services, but holy moly.. SM couldn't have possibly been any more polished on this order. I've really been wanting to defect but (now especially) I just can't pull myself away. Great job on the Christmas order, guys. Chances are very high I'll extend my subscription another year and more importantly I'll let fellow photographers on my native message board know. It's cheaper over there for the seller, and the quality is as high, but the purchasing experience over here is far and away the superior of the two.
regular site
oo
smug site
Between the lab we use and ourselves, we decided awhile ago that the most important thing we could do is ship orders faster. There were competitors faster than us and customers have become addicted to the fast fulfillment they see at Amazon.
Fortunately, the guys at EZ Prints made fast shipping their mantra.
Well, I didnt wanna say "I told ya so" But.......
lol...
I just absolutly LOVE smuggy and their customer service. Yes compitition is good, even great but, ya gotta give credit to the champ! I recently AGAIN had to email cust svs and not only did they reply back within the huor, they reshipped my order ( it seems the USPS either beat someone over the head with my print or used it to hold their truck up whilst changing the tire!) lol
www.theanimalhaven.com :thumb
Visit us at: www.northeastfoto.com a forum for northeastern USA Photogs to meet. :wink
Canon 30D, some lenses and stuff... I think im tired or something, i have a hard time concentrating.. hey look, a birdie!:clap
However, it might not be such a bad idea to sell out to the Redmond boys, and then open up shop somewhere else. Let's look at the strengths of microsoft:
1. They know how to copy
2. They know how to leverage a strong market position to crush potential rivals.
3. hmmmm... that's really about it.
Microsoft will, inexorably, muck up the works because what they don't know anything about is customer service. And this kind of site is all about service.
Move your site to www.mugsmug.com, wait 18 months, then buy the original site back from a chastened Msft.
As this is my brilliant idea, it would be a mitzvah if you would kick over 10% or so of the Msft purchase price to me.
Thanks in Advance!