Squash -- The Next Frontier

KED

Moving into winter sports now, and squash seems like it's going to be uniquely challenging. Apart from the usual white balance issues associated with indoor sports, there's the whole "shooting through a glass wall" thing. My assumption is that auto focus won't work at all, but would love to be corrected on that. This was one of a series that I shot casually, and I didn't bother with much PP except for white balance and maybe noise reduction. What I hadn't anticipated about the glass factor was the reflection -- I don't know how well it will show up in the post, but on my computer screen I can see myself and others in the gallery reflected off the back glass.

I know that shots of backs are not much to get excited about, but that's the geometry of this sport; I will hope to get some good faces on digs out of the back corners.

Any tips would be appreciated. PS, I will be shooting mostly with an 85 f/1.8, although this was taken with a 24 - 105 f/4.

wmstumme

I guess just before the game (match?), you could into the court and shrink down into the corner and get some shots while they were warming up. You'ld have to trust them a bit. Maybe just take your back-up body just in case...

KED

wmstumme wrote:

I guess just before the game (match?), you could into the court and shrink down into the corner and get some shots while they were warming up. You'ld have to trust them a bit. Maybe just take your back-up body just in case...

Dude, I can see that you are a laxer and there is nothing that I like better than lax, but on the court is "in play" -- couldn't happen any more than one of us sitting in the crease during a lax shootaround (as if I had ever considered that!).

photon

Squash is _hard_
Congratulations on having the only thread on squash (my favourite sport) on Dgrin!

KED wrote:

Dude, I can see that you are a laxer and there is nothing that I like better than lax, but on the court is "in play" -- couldn't happen any more than one of us sitting in the crease during a lax shootaround (as if I had ever considered that!).

I believe Will was referring to doing it during the warmup, but I agree that the way some guys hit either a) you could even be hit if you're behind the glass or b) they hit accurately but practice a variety of shots to get warmed up so there is no 'safe' corner.

To get around the glass, I've seen cameras set up on the top of the glass on the side wall... But I haven't done it myself.

Too bad we can't all shoot pro squash with the convenient transparent front wall. Any in-game pic worth anything is taken from those tiny windows.

KED

photon wrote:

Contratulations on having the only thread on squash (my favourite sport) on Dgrin!



I believe Will was referring to doing it during the warmup, but I agree that the way some guys hit either a) you could even be hit if you're behind the glass or b) they hit accurately but practice a variety of shots to get warmed up so there is no 'safe' corner.

To get around the glass, I've seen cameras set up on the top of the glass on the side wall... But I haven't done it myself.

Too bad we can't all shoot pro squash with the convenient transparent front wall. Any in-game pic worth anything is taken from those tiny windows.

I am delighted to know that for once I've broken new ground here! There's just no way of getting up front even during warmup -- especially when my kids are involved, they would be mortified!

I'm wondering whether there's a Photoshop solution to the reflection issue anyway. Right now, I'm too busy working on the shooting aspect to figure that out.

Big prep squash event coming up for me in early December -- stay tuned, if I get anything good I'll share it!

rwells

KED wrote:

reflection issue

KED,

I don't know about shooting squash, or any other food group for that matter , but you can eliminate the glass reflection if you can move right up to the glass. Put your lens as close as you can to the glass when shooting, that will not give it a chance for any reflections.


Hmmm... I might try shooting some carrots tomorrow

photon

Looking forward to it

KED wrote:

Big prep squash event coming up for me in early December -- stay tuned, if I get anything good I'll share it!

I for one will be looking forward to any shots you get...

Thanks for sharing!

Option1

Mmmmmmmmm carrotttssss.

I know some courts have seating above the back glass. Shooting from up there occasionally would give a different perspective.

Neil

KED

Option1 wrote:

Mmmmmmmmm carrotttssss.

I know some courts have seating above the back glass. Shooting from up there occasionally would give a different perspective.

Neil

I think that not many of my venues this winter will have galleries, but it will be interesting to see what could be gotten from up there. I'm kinda thinking not much but the tops of heads, but if the opportunity presents itself I will shoot it!

KED

rwells wrote:

KED,

I don't know about shooting squash, or any other food group for that matter , but you can eliminate the glass reflection if you can move right up to the glass. Put your lens as close as you can to the glass when shooting, that will not give it a chance for any reflections.


Hmmm... I might try shooting some carrots tomorrow

Well, I guess that was inevitable, but carrots aren't even in the same family! Zucchini, pumpkins . . .

Up tight to the glass is something another pro recently suggested to me. I will try that -- the players might find it annoying but it's infinitely better than the on-court alternative. Do you have a glass issue at bull riding?

rwells

KED wrote:

Do you have a glass issue at bull riding?

NO glass around bulls -- I've seen them bend 3" steel pipe many a time


Besides, I'm IN the arena with them

KED

rwells wrote:

NO glass around bulls -- I've seen them bend 3" steel pipe many a time

I was thinking more in terms of glass around the humans, like at a hockey rink.

aktse

KED wrote:

I was thinking more in terms of glass around the humans, like at a hockey rink.

If you get really close to the glass and watch where the light falls, the reflection won't bother you as much. I have more issuse with reflection from a second souce of light when I'm at the rink (i.e. a window, lights coming in from the side from another rink).

I have two hockey threads right now and they were taken through glass. Acutally, nearly all of my hockey phtos are through glass. I do have some issues at some rinks, but I just walk around until I find a position that's better.

Have you ever thought about building a plex-glass box for your camera and sticking it inside of the court? It's similar to a camera inside net behind the goalie...

KED

aktse wrote:

If you get really close to the glass and watch where the light falls, the reflection won't bother you as much. I have more issuse with reflection from a second souce of light when I'm at the rink (i.e. a window, lights coming in from the side from another rink).

I have two hockey threads right now and they were taken through glass. Acutally, nearly all of my hockey phtos are through glass. I do have some issues at some rinks, but I just walk around until I find a position that's better.

Have you ever thought about building a plex-glass box for your camera and sticking it inside of the court? It's similar to a camera inside net behind the goalie...

i checked out your threads and you sure do have the reflection issue nailed! Squash is a little harder because being up tight to the back wall could actually be a distraction to the player, but in any case I'll get as close as I can.

I don't think the on-court plexi option is viable below the pro level (certainly not HS prep or below), but it sure is appealing.

wmstumme

KED wrote:

Dude, I can see that you are a laxer and there is nothing that I like better than lax, but on the court is "in play" -- couldn't happen any more than one of us sitting in the crease during a lax shootaround (as if I had ever considered that!).

So...any shots yet?

PS: I'll get in the crease if you will...

pathfinder

A screw in rubber lens hood is a great thing to have to allow you to hold against the glass to diminish reflections too. They're cheap too

KED

wmstumme wrote:

So...any shots yet?

PS: I'll get in the crease if you will...

Saturday!! And as to your offer, I bailed out of the crease for the last time 7 years ago when my son, now a freshman D-I player, was shooting on me with a tennis ball!! I never claimed to be goalie material, but I'm WAY more fragile now!

If I get anything good (or spectacularly bad), it will be up around Tuesday. Thanks for asking.

xdetroiter

To minimize reflections see if you can minimize the light in the gallery. Turn the lights off or block the more distracting lights. Also, you might consider getting an assistant to hold up a large dark object just behind you to act as a gobo. Pressing the lens up against the glass will eliminate reflections but it will freeze your camera position. The rubber lens hood suggestion helps camera mobility slightly.

Try leveraging practice time. Lob shots drop into the back corners, players sometimes turn around and play the ball off the back wall. You can also try having them reverse and play against the back wall instead of the front. Aside from you getting a better perspective it will give them an opportunity to have some heated arguments over shots hitting the "tin". The white floors may provide enough reflection that you don't get harsh shadows on the faces from the overhead lights but you might try using your flash off-camera. Either position it on your side of the glass and deal with the reflection or clamp it above but to the side of the players. Depending on the ambient/flash ratio, the flash will either overpower (and become the main light) or "fill" the overhead lights. You will be able to get dramatic lighting using your flash if you can control the overhead lights. I'm imagining a player working the corner, wide-angle lens, hair flowing, athletic body position, racket slightly blurred, ball clearly in play.

I played a lot of squash as a youth and I've spent the last 5 years trying to get good ice hockey photos, often through glass.

KED

Great suggestions, almost none of which are in my control right now. Congrats on getting out of Detroit -- I escaped from Cleveland!