Should we feel sorry for this guy??
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Major grinsBournemouth, UKPosts: 0 Major grins
The full story is in the link below, but in short Shannon Fagan is a Stock photographer (as in stock photography - the pictures used by companies on packaging, leaflets, and websites) and he is complaining about his loss of business due to the semi pro and amatuer photographer using the growing band of Royalty Free stock photograph websites
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7107866.stm
My view is he had the market to himself and has been able to charge what he wants because nobody else could do it, now he is having to charge what his pictures are really worth because what he is doing is not as special as it was.
So whats your view??
Tim
<Tim pulls on his flameproof suit just incase>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7107866.stm
My view is he had the market to himself and has been able to charge what he wants because nobody else could do it, now he is having to charge what his pictures are really worth because what he is doing is not as special as it was.
So whats your view??
Tim
<Tim pulls on his flameproof suit just incase>
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Sounds like he just needs to step up his game if he wants to stay ahead of the reach of the amateur.
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www.tednghiem.com
and then to stop in at a wedding just to see a "pro" photog shooting with a canon or sony or samsung P/S and actaully finding out that is what they use in their "studios" and they are shooting a wedding for under $300.....if I have to send in a lens for cleaning and lube it cost nearly $300....if one of my KM7D's goes belly up well then it is off to Nikon or Canon for a replacement as I have yet to see a Sony that is the Camera the 7D is......this is our (by our I mean the Pro that either went to school for a degree or spent the time and money to learn all he/she could about their art and craft.....unfortunately digital has made it too easy for some to be a competitor with out actually knowing their craft....I have found in this area many a "pro" that does not understand apertures and shutter speeds as they only shoot in program mode and jpg........but for a lot pros that spent 15 - 40 grand on a digital back for their medium format equipment this is killing them and these "NEW"pros are giving away their digital files to the customers all included for their under $300 wedding fee.....the average joe customer doesn't care that I archive my shoots on SMUGMUG for $100 or so per year or that I spend $3-5 each on my MAM-A gold dvd's to have a archive on their digital negatives and that I have several 300 -500 gig harddrives with their memories on that unless some real major catastrophe happens then 50 or more years from now their grand children will be able to get a copy of the wedding or engagement photos that I have done and archived for them........
In the days of all film it was quite different.....usually your only competition from from another true photog that truly loved his art/craft or some wealthy spoiled brat that thought he/she could make it just cause he could buy the top line Hassy and his /her business died a horrible death cause he had no talent with the camera or a personality to deal with people on their most stressful of days and couldn't understand that the photog was there to YES make beautiful memories but also to help alleviate the stress with our personalities and helpfulness when needed...............
So yes I do feel for him.....but more than that I feel for all of us that have TRULY PAID OUR DUES with blood sweat and tears over the years.....
I also feel bad for anyone who's wedding day memories aren't worth the paper that they are printed on. I feel bad for the companys that have to pay big bucks to get their software working the way it was intented to.
Ultimately, I think change is good. Actually, better than good. I don't know where I'd be without a camera (digital or film), a computer or even the internet.
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Would Shannon show his qualifacation and level of his service to potential customers? Does he offer a price tiered service, basic level, he turns up with a reasonable camera take 200 pics and then give them to the happy couple on a disc, right up to a platimum level of service where he offer the full pro service complete with archives, backed by years of being a fully qualified photographer?
While I agree the article could well have been written with a bias against Shannon, in the aricle he come across as a spoilt little boy who has had his toys taken away. His business is no different then any other business, it needs to cut cost, the businessmen who see two picture of similar quality that meets his requirements with the only different being several thousand £ (or $) which one is he going to buy, he buys the cheaper one and save s money on his marketing budget. Shannon needs to realise that on a straight picture purchase he cannot sell his professionalism, service or qualifacations. If on the other hand he is commissioned to do a picture shoot for a company\product then that where he sells professionalism, service and qualifacations.
I appreciate anybody who has spent their time learning their craft and spending their time and money on their craft but they can't expect to compete on the same level field as they commanded yesterday because technology has caught up with them.
Goto a boat show, row after row of Glassfibre (GRP) hulled boats but put a completely wooden boat there and it will draw the biggest crowd because people can see the skill and quality. Wooden boat building is now a niche market. Shannon need to move to the niche market and stop complaining and move on otherwise he will get trampled under foot by those that can mass produce.
(sorry for waffling)
Tim
Will a monkey with a digital Hasselblad shoot nice photographs?
I think it is a good thing that more people get access to sell their images. I truly believe that good photographers will never be out worked by mediocre ones.
It is also a truth that some of the advertising photographers charged far more then what their work was really worth, as previous writers said.
I think that to be outstanding in your field, you have to have the necessary skills. In the long run, bad photographers will fall through the bottom of the basket, and good photographers will get more work. We can not underestimate the knowledge of the public. I think all of us can still see the difference between a bad or a good shot...
It is all relative... I think good work is worth its value, and to me it is obvious that photographers who did invest in good equipment coupled to knowledge and degrees will always shoot better then newbies who might have a good camera, but still don't know how to handle it outside the auto program.
Having control over the functions of the camera still is an advantage over the small automatics handled by people who don't know how to shoot.
Having said that, I am a learning photographer, and I am happy if I sell work. It allows me to take more classes and better camera's as I grow in learning. What I earn with my images goes straight back into workshops and/or material... If I would have to be perfect from the first shot, I would never get anywhere...
If people are really good in what they do, they will always swim faster and arrive sooner. In the long run.
Knowledge rules over luck... (although a bit of luck sometimes helps)
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He really has 2 options, deal with it or get out.
I agree that the recent influx of photographers has caused a better need to set yourself apart.
In the end I would hope that new photographers will understand that they are selling their time (shooting, post processing, archiving) as well as any prints, cds, etc. Some people don't value their time as much as others. Eventually they will either value their free time more (If they have full-time jobs, they may find relief in doing photography, but after a certain point it b ecomes work, because once you committ you have to do it) or consumers will learn to become more discerning and have a better idea of expection in what they are paying for. For example getting a haircut. You can pay a little or a lot and sometimes how much you spend directly relates to the end result but not always. Education is another example, you can go to a Community College or a Private University and take similar classes at both places, but the cost is drastically different. There are reasons people choose to pay different prices for something that can (on the surface) be similar.
I tend to think things will eventually settle out but may take time.
As someone who has been into taking pictures since the time I had the hand-eye coordination to look through a viewfinder while pushing a button but was never really able to afford quality equipment before now, I am selfishly happy with the camera market currently. I have no real goal in mind of selling photos, but if someone likes my site and wants me to shoot portraits for them, then more power to me. I'm not out there actively trying to steal business from honest, hard-working pros...but neither am I going to turn down a job.
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"I have been a pro Photographer for xx years etc blah blah blah." and then they go on on their diatribe about how all this influx of DSLRs are bringing out the avg. joe shooter. I am not saying a lot of them are asses who need to wake up, its just a lot of them.
I can never understand why some of them reply with such harsh overtones when someone asks them questions. As if a person who lives in Seattle is going to steal their turf... when they live in Miami, for an example.
While the repitition can be jading, the questions come from people who are trying, most likely, to break into the buisness and be like them, other than the attitude!
Sometimes not even to break into the business, but to make better photographs than what they are doing at present.
So reading an article like that is just reading about someone complaining that they might have more competition or that they are being forced to do better to justify their costs.
I am a promateur photographer for 5 years and I certify this post.
www.tednghiem.com
You hit the nail right on the head Art.
However, I believe the point of the article is not whether you should feel sorry for the guy, its using him as an example to illustrate what is happening to thousands upon thousands of photographers world wide, and to the whole business of photography. Photographers (full-time) generally work alone, so as individuals they are hit hard.
If an 'amateur' but 'great' photographer would like to make a full time career of photography that will support them and/or their family, then every time someone gives away their work for next to nothing or does cut price jobs (editorial, wedding, portrait sessions whatever) then the chances of making a decent living - as in full time occupation diminish. Its a simple economic fact. Equally giving away your copyright on your work also exacerbates the situation. If every photographer values their skill and the work they produce why would they give it away ?
There has been some discussion recently in this thread
in a similar vein.
Caroline
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The thing I feel bad about for him is that at his age, it is unlikely that he can start over in a new career, but that is what he needs to do. I think he realizes this as well, and has done tried to interview for a few jobs with little luck. I hope he can find something that he can make a living from.
Times change, and the consumer speaks. If consumers are happy with their P&S snapshots of weddings for $300 all in...well, so be it. It's up to the self-described "pro" photog to sell himself and his service. I do not feel sorry that this stuff is happening. I think a true pro would welcome the challenge of creating new and innovative photography, and I think a photog who wants to do business in this field is now being forced to do just that: BUSINESS. She'll have to develop strategy, advertising, etc to compete. And now being the only one who owns a camera that takes decent shots is not the only qualifier as EVERYONE has a camera that can do that. The self-described "pros" are actually going to have to demonstrate that they are a cut above and worth the extra $$$ for a shoot, and a $$$ camera and some piece of paper from some kind of photo school is not gonna cut it. GREAT shots will.
Shape up, or ship out.
wow... thought, if you shoot in say, a studio with the above describec P&S camera, does that make you any less pro than with the equivelent DSLR? im thinkg DSLR's shoot raw, over 7 mp's, flly manual mode, ... mmm. forget i said anthing im confused and now i have to go by a G9 quick so i can be a wedding photog!!
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Why do you think that "worth" is a static value? His photos used to be worth more in the past because he did something nobody else could. That's were value comes from. Now more people can do it, so its worth diminishes. Its just another version of supply and demand (in this case the supply of quality stock photography is going up).
But this does not mean that his photos were worth less in the past, as your statement "what his pictures are really worth" implies. They truly were worth more in the past than they are today.
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People tend to applaud change when it affects them in a positive way, and complain about change when it negatively impacts them.
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In days gone by he was able to charge for his knowledge and for the cost of his equipment he needed to be able to produce the level and quality of the picture required. But now technology has moved on and has cut the amount of knowledge required to operate the camera and produce a picture is less and the cost of the equipment has come down as well so now the good amatuer can produce an equally good shot as the professional.
And yes when you look back now, the true cost of the picture will be less because the photographer in year gone by he charged what he wanted because he was the only who could take the picture, he had to buy loads of expensive equipment to take that pictures and consequently his client paid the higher price for the pictures compared to now.
Look at TV's when the first LCD\TFT screened TV came out they cost a fortune and only the film star, millionaire or rock star could afford them, but several years later as production of these types of TV has grown, technology and production costs have got cheaper and now they are just about in the reach of the man on the street.
The when the film\rockstar bought his TV he paid for the R&D of the whole LCD\TFT TV business for that particular manufacturer because the manufacturer could get away with charging those highly inflated cost because they were the only one that could provide that product. As other manufacturers can now produce LCD\TFT TV the price has dropped because no manufacturer wants to price themselve out of the market.
I'm sorry but this guy needs to re-evaluate his business and move to a new area where he can maintain the price sturture per picture he wants or offer a service at the same level as everybody else, the goal posts have moved and he complaining about it.
Tim
regular site
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smug site
As we click away with our fancypants DSLrs, should we feel bad that Holga never bothered to make a better medium format camera?
In my experience with any kind of media generation, is that any time you lower the barrier of entry into any medium, all you're really doing is flooding the channel with more cruft. If you're head and shoulders above the rest, you're going to remain there. I'm sure that Sting and Madonna weren't all to worried about their musical careers when Apple released Garage Band.
Point being made is that progress is the lovechild of competition. Sometimes its messy and unkind to its parents, sometimes it isn't. I'm sure there are a lot of photographers here - those who have been working pros in this business for a long time - who have a number of stories about how their
business has changed as the technology has changed. If this guy really feels that his images are worth that much more than the swarm of stock photos on the interwebs, then they had better be worth that much more - and he needs to market and licesne them to businesses who will buy them. If he can't learn to do that, then perhaps he needs to rethink his business model.
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Why could I not have written it this simply <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Tim
awesome