Client saw "my" pricing

i2iSTUDIOS

My client's father just called me saying that they ordered a bunch of prints "4x6" @ $0.19 and when they went to check out it went to the pricing i setup. I checked this myself and could not get it to show the $0.19, just the pricing I setup. Anyone else experience this? What happened?

Andy

Give us the gallery link please and we'll check it out.

You've not given the client your password, or a guest password, right?

MRudland

Andy wrote:

Give us the gallery link please and we'll check it out.

You've not given the client your password, or a guest password, right?

Perhaps they just went to smugmug and looked generically at the pricing on the site, not necessarily your galleries.
Michelle

i2iSTUDIOS

Andy wrote:

Give us the gallery link please and we'll check it out.

You've not given the client your password, or a guest password, right?

There was no password given.

http://i2istudios.smugmug.com/gallery/3764591#216720158

I checked it out and didn't see anything weird but they saw it somehome and when they hit the check out button they were shocked to say the least

DJ-S1

I went to that gallery and it shows $1.50 for a 4x6. Maybe he got in there as you were in the process of setting the gallery pricing?

GJMPhoto

MRudland wrote:

Perhaps they just went to smugmug and looked generically at the pricing on the site, not necessarily your galleries.
Michelle

This is most likely what happened...they didn't even have to know they were going to smugmug, just clicking on the links on your footer....Sorry...but more fuel to this fire...

SM: why not address this flaw? This is my suggestion from the other posts:

GJMPhoto wrote:

The problem for pros is that the link at the bottom to the standard smugmug site - which everyone MUST provide - links to a page which contains the standard smugmug pricing - regardless of the prices the site owner set. This exposure of 'cost' pricing is the problem.

My suggestion is that, for pro-priced accounts, smug recognize that you are branching in from outside and hide that price sheet. If it's not a pro account, or if the users enters by typing www.smugmug.com, then the pricing is available. Wouldn't that work for you as well?

- Gary.

iklimon

GJMPhoto wrote:

This is most likely what happened...they didn't even have to know they were going to smugmug, just clicking on the links on your footer....Sorry...but more fuel to this fire...

SM: why not address this flaw? This is my suggestion from the other posts:


- Gary.

I agree, this has been brought to my attention a few times by clients.

dogwood

GJMPhoto wrote:

SM: why not address this flaw? This is my suggestion from the other posts:

I'm not SM, but why is this a "flaw"? EVERYONE knows prints are cheap as dirt at Wal*Mart or whereever. 19-cents for a 4x6 covers the cost of the paper and dye for the print-- it does not cover your photography.

Your skills as a photographer are worth much more than the price of a print and the reason you charge more than 19-cents a print is because you actually went out and shot the photo, downloaded it, coverted it from RAW or whatever, uploaded it to your website, and made it available for sale. All of this cost YOU money, and if you're going to be successful, you need to pass this cost on to your customers.

There's something called "the cost of doing business" and EVERY successful business uses that as a basis for what they charge customers. In other words, just because the ingredients for a soda might cost 5-cents, that doesn't mean you'll get a can of soda for 5-cents. You pay for the processing and canning and label and advertising and salaries, etc.

Once SM or Wal*Mart are willing to go out and shoot my photos for me, then download them, touch them up and make them available for sale, all for 19-cents for a 4x6-- well then I'll be upset about SM listing the price of prints.

Just my opinion, but you'd be better off educating your customers about the reason your prints costs more than 19-cents. They are paying for your cost of doing business-- overhead and all that. Not just the print.

GJMPhoto

dogwood wrote:

I'm not SM, but why is this a "flaw"? EVERYONE knows prints are cheap as dirt at Wal*Mart or whereever. 19-cents for a 4x6 covers the cost of the paper and dye for the print-- it does not cover your photography.

Your skills as a photographer are worth much more than the price of a print and the reason you charge more than 19-cents a print is because you actually went out and shot the photo, downloaded it, coverted it from RAW or whatever, uploaded it to your website, and made it available for sale. All of this cost YOU money, and if you're going to be successful, you need to pass this cost on to your customers.

Bottom line...there are two considerations in determining the quality of a print: one is the quality of the content of the print (lighting, composition, concept) and the other is the quality of the physical media (color balance, exposure, heft, quality). The former is addressed by your comments regarding the professional services...that's why they come to us in the first place. However, the physical media is something our customers have a perception that causes the problem we're addressing here. And it IS a problem.

Most people settle on the Walmart / Costco print because they know they're not a professional and don't expect professional results...and they're cheap. Often, these prints are balanced in florescent light, are not dust spotted, and are not under the most strict standards for chemistry replenishing, etc. SO the perception is that the .19 print is of lower quality than what you expect from a professional (note, we're talking about the print itself...color balance, archival qualities, clarity, etc. not the content of the print. They do not expect a .19 photo to be of the same quality as a pro picture.

With the new online labs, the quality of the .19 print has greatly improved...almost to the point of a custom lab (though there's still a substantial difference). For the pro-sumer, these are 'good enough' to be professional prints. But that doesn't change the perception.

This discussion is not about whether a pro print is better content-wise and therefore deserving of a markup...it's a discussion about perception of the quality of the physical media. Furthermore, there really is NO reason SM needs to show the data to people who are clicking through pro sites. Again, I have no problem if they show it through non-pro sites and smugmug directly. Please handle the click-through differently...or provide a click through location that doesn't have the prices on it and let us choose which to link to!

- Gary.

dogwood

GJMPhoto wrote:

Furthermore, there really is NO reason SM needs to show the data to people who are clicking through pro sites.

I'm not following something here. You customers already know the price for a print. You're selling them a service (your photography and photos)-- not just the prints. So why does it matter if the customer sees the cost of materials? They probably already know the cost anyway.

Why not explain (and charge) for the services you do provide? Retouching and dust spotting (which on a digital means you need to clean your lens or sensor cover) and color balancing?

MRudland

dogwood wrote:

I'm not following something here. You customers already know the price for a print. You're selling them a service (your photography and photos)-- not just the prints. So why does it matter if the customer sees the cost of materials? They probably already know the cost anyway.

Why not explain (and charge) for the services you do provide? Retouching and dust spotting (which on a digital means you need to clean your lens or sensor cover) and color balancing?

Can just a statement be added to the page in a bold setting or color that states THESE PRICES DO NOT REFLECT PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER PRICING.
Just a simple statement could save a lot of grief all the way around. Even though you and I understand why pros charge what we charge, there are a lot of people everywhere else who don't know and DON'T CARE TO KNOW what we as professionals go through and invest both finacially and time wise into our businesses and each image we produce. They all want to be the exception to the rule of pro pricing. Less time spent explaining or negotiating with a client when it could have been prevented in the first place leaves us more time to create!
Just a thought....
Michelle

GJMPhoto

dogwood wrote:

I'm not following something here. You customers already know the price for a print. You're selling them a service (your photography and photos)-- not just the prints. So why does it matter if the customer sees the cost of materials? They probably already know the cost anyway.

Why not explain (and charge) for the services you do provide? Retouching and dust spotting (which on a digital means you need to clean your lens or sensor cover) and color balancing?

Suppose I don't want to have to explain that? Suppose, it's a little complicated? Suppose my pricing is based on human tendencies - designed to increase my sales? Should I explain the psychological rule of 3s and the tendency to "pick the upper middle"? I'm sure the customer will be thrilled to hear all of that.

By the way...did you notice that Smugmug's price for a 5x7 is .99, but they're price for an 8x10 is 2.99? 3-1? Why? We all know that you get 2 5x7s out of an 8x10 sheet of paper - no additional ink, no additional printing time!!! And the great value-add they have with respect to color balancing, replenishing strategy, shipping, and customer service is the same too. I think Smugmug should explain this...don't you? Let's see their cost numbers and have them EXPLAIN to us why they've chosen this pricing scheme? Where's the link to THEIR costs? Who are THEIR suppliers?

Of course, I'm NOT asking for this...I respect their right to make a living...but, you do notice, they DON'T post this information...there's a reason. Nobody in business does. Nobody in business is forced to explain their profit margin (except some government agencies)...why should we?

Peter: If you don't mind sharing, what line of work are you in?

- Gary.

xxclixxx

When you are dealing with customers it's best not to confuse them. Just the point that multiple people have seen the "at cost" prices and gotten confused should be enough to make it not come up.

nipprdog

GJMPhoto wrote:

Nobody in business does. Nobody in business is forced to explain their profit margin (except some government agencies)...why should we?

I agree 100%.

lowflyer

Why explain anything? The customer can't purchase your prints for less than your price. I would just tell him that the price for his prints are on the website and that he likely just went to the wrong website. Why complicate it?

nipprdog

lowflyer wrote:

I would just tell him that the price for his prints are on the website and that he likely just went to the wrong website. Why complicate it?

That's nice. Just lie to your customers. You're off to a good start.

evoryware

To me that's just an unnecessary added frustration, but I'm accustomed to dealing with it.
In any case, when I worked in retail sales past 8+ years, I NEVER intentionally showed the cost of the item I was selling.
CompUSA Business Sales
Coca-Cola Bottling Co.
If I did accidently show the cost, I lost the sale because they wanted it at our cost (specifically with computers), and I was rarely going to give it at our cost (maybe for a regular customer).

So say that 2 liter of soda cost .35 cents to make and we charge .89c to the vendor to stock it and they charge $1.39 on the shelf. .35c and .99c is need to know basis. And the customer doesn't need to know that.

What the customer fails to understand is the work involved in getting that soda on the shelf. Those pallets are heavy and it can take up to 8 hours to fill one just stores shelves.

However, many customers are not idiots and do their research. Even if the customer does find out the cost, you don't have to re-negotiate the price. They can take it or leave it.

Unfortunately, you will run into these nickel-and-dimer customers that will go somewhere else and they may eventually get that cost. But if they are a customer like that, you don't necessarily want to be doing business with them anyway.

bkatz

There are always some customers that you do everything for and it will never be enough. I go as far as I can but I do not give the store away. I don't like :bash

If the customer fails to understand there's not much you can do. I find that I do well with almost all of my customers and I get great word of mouth that way.

I do sports shooting and I am lower priced then some and higher priced then others but usually when I run into parents who have their own SLR on the sideline they have no idea what they are doing. I always patiently answer questions and help them but many times they turn into customers after seeing my work on the website. The cost for them is not an issue since they cannot do it with their own SLR.

Don't lie to your customer. Just let them know that is how much it costs to print a photo if they want to join smugmug and do their own photos. If they like the service you are offering and the pictures you have taken they are free to purchase them at your cost which is calculated due to time and effort spent making the pictures memories (or 'the best they can be').

Just MHO FWIW

richW

The prints & gift link in the SmugMug footer go here: http://www.smugmug.com/prints/catalog2.mg The default prices are not listed.

You can remove most of the links in the SmugMug footer by using #16 in the FAQ http://www.smugmug.com/help/customize-faq.mg