Start of HS basketball

johng

Not my favorite gym. Catwalks create shadows at the hoop, lights don't extend past hoop so you get cycling because not enough overlap of light fields. But I'm still happy to be shooting SOMETHING.
C&C always welcome:
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dylansdigitals

Cool Shots
I have 2 boys that play basketball and am trying to perfect my shooting. Can you tell me what you use? Camera, lens, flash? Thanks

johng

currently using Canon 1dmkIII and 85mm 1.8 lens. I don't like to use flash for basketball - so I'll accept the limited range of the 85 over the 70-200 so I can avoid flash.

I shoot manual exposure. Usually around 1/400 f2.0 ISO 1600. In this particular place though I was shooting ISO 2500, f2.0 and 1/400 because of the shadows around the hoop.

What gear do you currently have?

PineapplePhoto

Nice shoots indeed.

I got my first BB game shot tomorrow... it is in fact 4 games, back to back, High School!

Anyways, I got my 30D with 85mm f1.8 and another 30D with 20mm f1.8 (sigma).

I was thinking of using the 70-200 f2.8 (sigma), I do not ever use flash though, what do you think? should I stick with the 2 above?

RandySmugMug

for no flash John these are as good as i've ever seen....
super work, i'm very impressed w/ the m3 & your skill

johng

Thanks Randy. One of the best things about the mkIII is variable ISO between 1600 and 3200. I also find it very useful to be able to record and store a custom WB. So I only need to do that once for a given gym. Just very helpful. Overall I haven't experienced the issues with the focus others reported so I count myself lucky.

Pineapple - I wouldn't count on the Sigma 70-200 2.8 being much of a help. You'd be forced into ISO 3200 to get decent exposures and the focusing is a bit slow in very poor lighting. Not so much of an issue outdoors for football/soccer at night because you can track a player a bit longer but for basketball if focus is slow to lock you've missed your chance. I'll be VERY interested to see the wide shots. That's still one thing I need to do - incorporate a wide angle into my basketball. Looking forward to seeing some samples. Good luck!

winger

Yeah for 1600 I am impressed at how low the noise is, but hey its that great canon equipment. (oh 40d...i see you coming now). I had a Mark II at one point, but really the camera is just to physically big for me and I do more than well enough with my 20d.

As for the shots, nice action, peak action and you did well with the challenging light situation. As a natural light sports photograhper myself I can apperciate the challenges of the uneven lighting you will find. Most people look at me crazy when they come into my own arena and I tell them one end is darker than the others, but when you shoot there every week you figure these things out.

PineapplePhoto

I will try
This is my first time shooting this sport... so as usual, my first shots will be "experimental"... I am sure by the forth game I would have gotten the "idea".

Either way, I will leave the 70-200 at home and bring only the 20mm and 85mm, as you said.

Of course my 30Ds are no match to your little beast (aka 1DMIII)


I will post some of the images on Saturday.

Any other tips, like... where do you stand? moments to watch for? how did you set WiBal? (i got an expo disc for the 85mm), etc.

johng

PineapplePhoto wrote:

Any other tips, like... where do you stand? moments to watch for? how did you set WiBal? (i got an expo disc for the 85mm), etc.

First off - the 30d is a great camera. I upgraded from a 20d to the mkIII. The 20d served me quite well for several years as a sports shooter so the 30d is absolutely up to the task.

Now - on to other tips:
Custom WB: just follow the directions for the expo disc and in camera manual. Take the shot and using the camera's menu set the shot as your WB. The key here is - you always want to set the WB under the lights you'll be shooting. Since most of the action is around the basket, take your WB shot under those lights - not, say at mid court.

Use center focus point only - really the only one accurate enough on the 30d for this sport.
Set manual exposure (as discussed elsewhere).

Where to stand:
For the 85, you'll move along the baseline a lot. The 85 and a 1.6x crop camera can be a tough combination - the 85 is really only good to about 20 feet. After that the focus really goes down hill in a hurry. So within 20 feet on a 1.6x crop can get very tight. So expect to clip a lot of body parts - usually legs. Plan on a lot of work from the CORNER of the baseline. The only time you slide toward the basket is to get shots toward the arc on the other side of the basket (85 really can't reach corner to corner on the baseline so if you want shots around the arc you need to slide toward the basket to get them).

If you want defensive shots get them from the sides rather than the baseline.

You can also get transition shots from the sides as well. I also recommend it for shots at the top of the arc - shooting the point guard from the baseline is tough with the 85 - either a lot of people in the way or if you're at the corners not enough reach. But most of your shots will be around the offensive basket. At higher levels the defensive shots (blocks) can be great. But they're a bit more rare in HS - most of the blocks there are with both parties still on the ground and thus often clutter of other players in the way so it's tough to get an interesting result (vs college or pros where they're in the air and thus have more separation). Also, unlike higher levels, dunks are rare so it's best to track the player rather than just sit on the rim so to speak and wait for the dunk.

For the wide angle - right behind the basket if you're allowed - get shots of layups and such. You won't have accurate focus from far away and the backgrounds will be too cluttered. The best shots I've seen WA are from right on the baseline near the basket - usually with players up off their feet (layups, rebounds).

Have fun!!

PineapplePhoto

That's for the tips... I will post the pics later... one question, do you use Ai Servo + * Focusing? (Custom Function 4:3)

johng wrote:

First off - the 30d is a great camera. I upgraded from a 20d to the mkIII. The 20d served me quite well for several years as a sports shooter so the 30d is absolutely up to the task.

Now - on to other tips:
Custom WB: just follow the directions for the expo disc and in camera manual. Take the shot and using the camera's menu set the shot as your WB. The key here is - you always want to set the WB under the lights you'll be shooting. Since most of the action is around the basket, take your WB shot under those lights - not, say at mid court.

Use center focus point only - really the only one accurate enough on the 30d for this sport.
Set manual exposure (as discussed elsewhere).

Where to stand:
For the 85, you'll move along the baseline a lot. The 85 and a 1.6x crop camera can be a tough combination - the 85 is really only good to about 20 feet. After that the focus really goes down hill in a hurry. So within 20 feet on a 1.6x crop can get very tight. So expect to clip a lot of body parts - usually legs. Plan on a lot of work from the CORNER of the baseline. The only time you slide toward the basket is to get shots toward the arc on the other side of the basket (85 really can't reach corner to corner on the baseline so if you want shots around the arc you need to slide toward the basket to get them).

If you want defensive shots get them from the sides rather than the baseline.

You can also get transition shots from the sides as well. I also recommend it for shots at the top of the arc - shooting the point guard from the baseline is tough with the 85 - either a lot of people in the way or if you're at the corners not enough reach. But most of your shots will be around the offensive basket. At higher levels the defensive shots (blocks) can be great. But they're a bit more rare in HS - most of the blocks there are with both parties still on the ground and thus often clutter of other players in the way so it's tough to get an interesting result (vs college or pros where they're in the air and thus have more separation). Also, unlike higher levels, dunks are rare so it's best to track the player rather than just sit on the rim so to speak and wait for the dunk.

For the wide angle - right behind the basket if you're allowed - get shots of layups and such. You won't have accurate focus from far away and the backgrounds will be too cluttered. The best shots I've seen WA are from right on the baseline near the basket - usually with players up off their feet (layups, rebounds).

Have fun!!

johng

yes you definitely want to use AI-Servo.
I do use back button focusing - but for basketball it doesn't give a HUGE benefit. Remember the two benefits to backbutton are: 1) disassociate focus from shutter butter and 2) disassociate focs from exposure.

Point # 1 is useful when you can pre-focus - hockey goalie, batter in baseball, base in baseball, etc. For sports like HS basketball there isn't a lot of pre-focus opportunity (except free throws which are boring).

point # 2 is irrelevant because you're setting a manual exposure.

So, basketball doesn't benefit a whole lot from back button focusing - but I use it there because it keeps my workflow the same. Rather than switching back and forth between back button and shutter I always leave the camera on back button so I'm always used to focusing that way and don't screw up and just press the shutter.

PineapplePhoto

I am trying to get used to it as well.

I just cleaned my camera, lenses and I got everything ready and set

Thank you very much for all of your help. Do you have a website (smugmug)? where I can see your work?

I also set my camera on high speed burst and center weighed metering.

Take care.,

johng wrote:

yes you definitely want to use AI-Servo.
I do use back button focusing - but for basketball it doesn't give a HUGE benefit. Remember the two benefits to backbutton are: 1) disassociate focus from shutter butter and 2) disassociate focs from exposure.

Point # 1 is useful when you can pre-focus - hockey goalie, batter in baseball, base in baseball, etc. For sports like HS basketball there isn't a lot of pre-focus opportunity (except free throws which are boring).

point # 2 is irrelevant because you're setting a manual exposure.

So, basketball doesn't benefit a whole lot from back button focusing - but I use it there because it keeps my workflow the same. Rather than switching back and forth between back button and shutter I always leave the camera on back button so I'm always used to focusing that way and don't screw up and just press the shutter.

johng

PineapplePhoto wrote:

Thank you very much for all of your help. Do you have a website (smugmug)? where I can see your work?

I also set my camera on high speed burst and center weighed metering.

Take care.,

First, if you're setting a manual exposure it doesn't matter what metering mode you use since you're overriding the camera's metering.

Second, yes I have a website:
www.jagsportsphotos.com

I've cleaned up all my spring galleries and just have some samples for those sports. I need to clean up my fall galleries. Since I sell to parents I have a lot of boring "sportrait" type shots - things I wouldn't post because they're not very interesting but they sell. In fact, most of my larger print sales are the sportrait type vs. action.

PineapplePhoto

I know the feeling... most of what I shot is because I am hired to shoot pictures that sell, rather than pictures I think are creative or cool

johng wrote:

First, if you're setting a manual exposure it doesn't matter what metering mode you use since you're overriding the camera's metering.

Second, yes I have a website:
www.jagsportsphotos.com

I've cleaned up all my spring galleries and just have some samples for those sports. I need to clean up my fall galleries. Since I sell to parents I have a lot of boring "sportrait" type shots - things I wouldn't post because they're not very interesting but they sell. In fact, most of my larger print sales are the sportrait type vs. action.