How would you respond? (i.e. is there a way to hide Smugmug pricing?)
Bill_M
Registered Users Posts: 119 Major grins
A customer sent me the below Email today...how would you respond to this one? I'm really not crazy about customers being able to see Smugmug print costs....any ideas? Seems like now when I charge anything above $.19, I'm going to have to justify the upcharge.
"Mr. xxxxxxx, I would prefer to have about 100 regular size prints (4x6), as well as 4 5x7's of photo # IMG 2575-2. I had already purchased Christmas cards and addressed some. I didn't see the 4x6 listed on your website for ordering, though, I did see it on Smugmug for .19 cents a print. What do you charge?
Thankyou, "
"Mr. xxxxxxx, I would prefer to have about 100 regular size prints (4x6), as well as 4 5x7's of photo # IMG 2575-2. I had already purchased Christmas cards and addressed some. I didn't see the 4x6 listed on your website for ordering, though, I did see it on Smugmug for .19 cents a print. What do you charge?
Thankyou, "
0
Comments
Just be up front about the charges and know that your time and equipment are worth it. If they don't want to pay it, well, then, it's time to move on, IMO.
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You are a professional - they know this.
When you need a mechanic, you go to the garage. Or, you can go to the auto parts store and try it yourself.
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I appreciate your responses. Bottom line, I'm not adding 4x6 to my selection, but I may give the customer the option of a digital download of the image for $xxx.00 so they can order $.19 prints wherever they like.
Thanks again,
Bill
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Maybe confrontational is the wrong word...sly may be another. I see no point for them to a.) go off my site & search through the Smugmug site for the pricing b.) mention the pricing to me...I feel as if they are telling me up front what they expect to pay.
I could be totally wrong...and I could even see valid arguements on both sides of this fence (be firm with your pricing VS what the heck, it's the holidays, give them $.25 prints).
I guess my whole point of the post was I wish it was harder for customers to find this pricing so I wouldn't have awkward situations like this.
Thanks again for the help guys,
Bill
I have to chime in here, because this was one of my first complaints when I arrived in SM MORE THAN 1/2 YEAR AGO !!!
Anyway...a customer's perception of your price as a pro has more than just your professional eye as a mark up. The assumption most non-pro's make is that the .19 enlargement they can get at Costco, etc. is not of professional quality. They 'know' pros go to professional-only labs where the color balance is better and the quality of the printing is better. They even feel the archival qualitites of a pro print are better.
Right or wrong, their experiences (due to the lack of quality at many of the .19/print printers) support their assumptions.
In walks web-based print sales (e.g., Smugmug) and suddenly all that high quality stuff is now available at the .19/print price point. Pros can legitimately go to a .19/print price point for their product. We know this, but our customers don't.
So when they see pro prices - (e.g., $24 for an 8x10) - they ASSUME at least part of the price is the higher cost the pro paid for his higher quality product (they 'paid for his eye' in the sitting fee). When we expose .19 cost per print, their perception is that we are no longer providing a superior product to what they can get at Costco / CVS, and they're offended.
Smugmug, to remain competitive needs to post their print prices...no question. The problem is that we have to post a link to smugmug - and indirectly, those prices, on our webpages. Our customers can too easily wander to the smugmug price page.
There is NO REASON Smugmug HAS to show print costs on a page that we HAVE to link to.
SM should implement a check to see if the visitor is linking to SM from one of our mandatory .smugmug-site links and hide the prices.
If the customer is inquisitive enough to really do their research and go to smugmug another way, then OK, let them...but to accidentally happen upon it as a consequence of exploring our sites...that's a problem.
Wow...I haven't been on that soapbox for a while!
- Gary.
I do have to agree that online pricing should be a bit harder to get, to help elivate this prob for SM pros.......
If they don't like your price, they don't get the prints... Since they can see smugmugs prices they can figure what your markup is on other sizes... I would even consider telling them that since they were ordering 100 prints that you would give them a 5 or 10% discount per print... depending on how generous you feel...
I don't get the feeling your customer is trying to strong arm you, it is simply human nature to try and get the best deal possible...:D I think you are over reacting just a tad...
For family, I send them this link. Feel free to grab from it what you will:
http://www.tippiepics.com/gallery/2157565
As you'll see when you go there, it's definitely geared towards family.
But you know what, if your client is being this way, you may be attracting the wrong kinds of clients. You really don't want to attract the walmart/target clients as they will pay the least and expect the most. Trust me!
Good luck!
www.tippiepics.com
Not only are pro photographers only a portion of SmugMug business, but to blame the transparency of their pricing for any problems you may have with your clients undervaluing your services is just plain backwards to me.
SmugMug prices have to be public, because of all the customers that aren't pros. Seems futile to me to wish for it to be otherwise.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I offered a special one-time price of $1.09 per 4x6 and the customer placed a nice-sized order.
Case closed...now on to the next customer who's insisting I use metallic paper for her order. Ha...it just never ends, does it?
Thanks.....
Bill
Smugs pricing model allows each user to inherit the previous pricing and allows you to override the pricing as you apply it. SO, a non-pro who does not choose to override smugs pricing sees smugs pricing...but a pro, who chooses to override the prices sees their own prices...and smugs are hidden. This is the way smug works and I'm not suggesting it change...I like it just that way...it works well.
The problem for pros is that the link at the bottom to the standard smugmug site - which everyone MUST provide - links to a page which contains the standard smugmug pricing - regardless of the prices the site owner set. This exposure of 'cost' pricing is the problem.
My suggestion is that, for pro-priced accounts, smug recognize that you are branching in from outside and hide that price sheet. If it's not a pro account, or if the users enters by typing www.smugmug.com, then the pricing is available. Wouldn't that work for you as well?
As for your statement: No one is blaming Smugmug for the undervaluing of photographic services. The root of that problem is, to some people, photography tends to be treated as a commodity. A photograph is often treated as a retail item rather than artwork. It's an age-old harsh reality in the photography business. As pros, our choices are limited...ignore the customer who fails to see the artist in our work, or embrace both types of clients by treating some of them as retail consumers.
The artist-appreciating customer doesn't care about our costs...they would no sooner investigate our costs than ask a painter how much his canvas and oils set him back! This conversation is moot for them...if they saw Smugs price page, they wouldn't care.
But the retail customer is very prevalent - represents a lucrative industry - and is very much more likely to shop on the web! I ask you, what retail business provides their costs to their customers? When you buy a bracelet, do you know what the store actually paid for it? Even if you buy shoes at Macy's, do you know how much they cost? How about an airline ticket or a burger at McDonalds? How much did that computer you're reading this on cost Dell, or IBM, or Apple?
No one wants to disclose this kind of info, because it's misleading. It doesn't take into account the suppliers total overhead (rent, personnel, time, supplies, training, experience, etc.), you have no way of judging the true markup - and really, it's none of the consumers business...they compare price vs. quality across providers and decide where to buy.
The problem is, as pros, we have to deal with all types. If we choose to deal with the retail consumer (and most of the pros on SM are), we NEED to be able to control the environment we put in front of them. We need to be understanding of their view and be careful not to mislead them - or open ourselves to undue criticism.
I believe the approach I outlined above solves both problems, is technically 'doable' for the Smugmug guys, satisfies your desire to leave it as it is, and also allows the pro to control the sales environment.
This does not need to be a pro vs. non-pro smug issue!
- Gary.
I may be completely off base here, but I think this line sums up completely how this situation could have been avoided in the first place.
I don't blame the customer one bit for trying to find pricing on their own. Obviously it wasn't simple enough (or non existent) for them to find the pricing on your advertised site. Given that same situation for a product I wanted, I would have ventured off on my own to find what I was looking for as well.
You've really gotta make it really simple for clients to find what they are or may be looking for. Had you had these prices already set up, I highly doubt this thread would have ever been created.
just my thoughts,
Steven
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I'm glad to see you worked out a price with them, but I think you really short changed yourself @ $1.09/print!
Seattle Photography - Nature|Portrait|Event
'The negative is comparable to the composer’s score and the print to its performance.' - Ansel Adams
Do you say, "I could buy that amount of beer in the grocery store for only $1.50."? Or, "The bar down the street offers pints for $4.00"?
Of course not. In other words, the exact same item (and not just photos) is priced differently depending on how you purchase it. Car parts, magazines, even clothes... there's always a mark-up depending on how and where you purchase them.
Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
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I'm always game for a beer analogy...In reality, I'm always game for anything having to deal with beer!!!
Take it the next step...do you expect the bar to post the $.75 they actually paid for your $4.50 beer?
This is a simple, common sense thing for SM to do...but for me, it's been 8 months of belly-aching and no indication the end is in sight ... Still, you gotta love the Smug!
Oh...and by the way...for the record, I'd rather have package pricing!
- Gary.
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Does that "Feel free to grab from it what you will" go for everyone? I get alot of complaints from friends that it takes me a long time to get shots done for them. Well, I give my shots away for free, and I have a full time day job, so sometimes it takes time before I can get around to processing. You have some nice wording in your link there and I would like to steal some...
Jamie
How on earth is it common sense for SmugMug to not post prices for all the non-pro customers they have?
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If you have never used the MPIX Kodak metallic, look here. I've used it and they turned out great.
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I ran into a problem with a "friend" she needed to have a photo asap for a gift, I trusted her to download to her computer and she sent them off to a local printer, (grocery store) to print. She asked for a bill, so I sent her the regular cost that I charge for an 8x10. She couldn't belive that I had the nerve to charge her $20/print, when it cost her less than $2 to have it printed!
Your a professional, and people want your photos for a reason, it's ok to explain to people why!:D
Yes, I use metallic from both Mpix & WHCC...I do wish it was an option here though. Thanks...
I've had people ask me why they are paying $6 for a 4X6 when they know it's only costing me .19. And then I get continuously asked "can't you cut me a deal? I know the print only costs you .19 to have smugmug print it." Stuff like that. It's not the type of client anyone attracts, it's simply human nature to try to get the lowest price possible.
Michelle
While it maybe human nature to try and get the lowest price possible, it is the nature of business to maximize profit.
The best justification I have found for prices is to look at the competition. And it doesn't hurt to quote the competition that happens to be higher. Then yours sounds reasonable or a bargain comparatively.
The statement idea is interesting idea. Not sure if smugmug will add it to their site, but some pros may choose to add it to their own site.
David,
As I wrote before: Notice the bold letters about pro-priced accounts?...and the part about non-pro accounts seeing the regular cost pricing?
Smug knows who you are and where you're coming from...it's a no-brainer to differentiate based on pro vs. non-pro account...This is what I was referring to as being common sense.
Does it make sense to you now?
-Gary.