People HELP

cdonovan · December 8, 2007

I'm by nature a very shy person, I'm fine, once I'm comfortable with people, or have known them for quite awhile. I have had troubles working with people for shoots...it's just something that I have to get over, and with some work I am sure that I will...I don't want to touch people to pose them cause all I can think of in the back of my mind is the shifty pervy jostens dude that used to take our school photos!!!:rolleyes

Anyway, anyone have any suggestions on good books to help working with people?? How I can better myself working one on one with people.

Leave me with a room full of dogs and I'm fine...but throw a person in the mix and it's like they are an alien!!!:rolleyes

Icebear · December 8, 2007

None of my beeswax, but since you brought it up . . .
Have you thought of counseling to help you with your apparent excessive shyness? Seriously.
Also, if you concentrated on the "process" of portraiture, and approached it like a physician approaches a patient, perhaps you could become more comfortable with the necessity of touching, or directing another person how to move their body. It's certainly not the best way to evoke the most genuine emotions from your subjects, but just think of it as a technical exercise. After a while you might just get used to it and enjoy it more. Then you'd really make progress. Your enjoyment would be contageous, and your subjects would relax and perform better.
Or stick with dogs.

pathfinder · December 8, 2007

I suspect that shooting portraits may be more challenging for someone who has difficulty interacting with other adults that they do not know well. I am certainly one of those persons.

Good portrait shooters seem to be able to make their subjects comfortable in an uncomfortable situation - sitting in front of a camera - and reveal their inner selves. I suspect this is easier for someone who likes to meet new people, and genuinely looks forward to meeting and interacting with new people. Some folks are really good at this and seem to enjoy it, and some of us are not. But we can get much better with effort and practice.

Some of the difficulty may be your own anxiety with the outcome of the photos. IF you KNOW you are going to get great shots, then much of the anxiety of the shoot will disappear. But if you are not certain, then you may worry a bit.

Maybe you can have an assistant do the interacting, while you limit yourself to viewing and shooting. This relieves you of having to entertain and advise the subject while shooting the camera. Having some nice music playing can be a big help in relaxing both you and the client.

Greg Gorman feeds and wines his subjects before he shoots them. I suspect this is to help get them to relax in front of his camera.

Slinky0390 · December 9, 2007

haha, i know what you mean about the high school photo dude

he almost snapped my neck.. i've never gotten the chance to actually take portraits, so take my advice with a grain of salt.. but why don't you start by taking portraits of people you're comfortable with, maybe a girlfriend or boyfriend, or a close friend.. just to get over the fear of interacting, ya know? one thing i find to lighten the mood and make people comfortable in any situation, is humor. you just need to find what works for you.

cdonovan · December 9, 2007

I don't have a studio, so my shooting takes place somewhere that is significant to the people I am shooting. If I'm familiar with the place that makes it 10times better.
I have been told that I have a great sense of humor...very dry, and that I make my clients feel at home and relaxed. (I was doing a shoot for a lady with her retired horses, we shot for over 3 hours and she said it was the most enjoyable time for a long time because I asked her to pretend that I wasn't there, she thought that I was only shooting the horses and couldn't believe all the photos that we ended up with her in them. She was relaxed comfortable and not worried about the camera cause she didn't think that she was in front of it. It was no coincidence that they are the trusest looking photos that I took this summer, she was being genuine because she wasn't posed or acting, and you can really tell in the photos.) When people have something to do, a task and aren't focused on the camera and if they are smiling or not, they are more natural and comfortable. It's more of a hang up that I have when it's a posed people shoot, kids and animals are easy peasy....teens and adults make me cringe!!!

I wondered about the etiquette of wine and cheese to be honest, if i had my own studio, I'd have absolutly no problem offering, but would people find it strange to bring that into their own homes....how does one dress up cheese and crackers and wine in a tuperware container!!!:D

Pathfinder, I think that you're on to something as well, this is still a fairly new job to me, I've always done this for my own pleasure, and when there is exchange of moula there is a certain expectation. I did a maternity shoot a few months ago that I wasn't in love with what the outcome was, however, the clients absolutly adore the photos.
I think that this is something that I will overcome with more experience, wondered also if anyone had any good book suggestions for ideas on posing people, making them look natural and comfortable. Any photo shoot that I have personally been to has been hellish, and those were school photos or the generic studio setting, that's the last thing I want my clients feeling like!!!

Here's a couple of my favs from the shoot I mentioned, no posing, just natural goodness...these are her favorites of herself and she told me that she's never had favorite pictures of herself before:D

JimW · December 9, 2007

Christine,

You’ve gotten some good advice, I think, but I’ll throw in my thoughts, too.

<<< I'm by nature a very shy person, >>>

You can use this to your advantage. Often times, our weak points can also be our strong points. A portrait photographer who talks too much makes the subject edgy sometimes. But when the subject is put at ease, and senses a shy soul, they will fill in the gaps. They will want to do this. When they start talking, and their personality emerges, shoot it. I know that’s oversimplifying it, but don’t you find people will do that?

Also, for me anyway, I found that as I become more comfortable with the technical, I can pay more attention to the pulse of the shoot. I still have to dedicate too much of my brain to the technical. But as we get more confidence with the technical, the interaction with the people will become easier. Now, if the equipment didn’t change every year, that would help.

I’ve read some posing books, which didn’t take. It’s a hard topic for me to learn from a book. What I want is time in front of people in my studio, without the pressure of a real shoot. So if a friend owes me a favor, I ask them to just pose for me for a while. I turn on the modeling lamps and just look and think. A half hour of that is more useful than reading a book on posing, in my view.

Good luck, Jim

JimW · December 9, 2007

p.s. I think that second shot is beautiful.

pathfinder · December 9, 2007

JimW wrote:

Christine,

You’ve gotten some good advice, I think, but I’ll throw in my thoughts, too.

<<< I'm by nature a very shy person, >>>

You can use this to your advantage. Often times, our weak points can also be our strong points. A portrait photographer who talks too much makes the subject edgy sometimes. But when the subject is put at ease, and senses a shy soul, they will fill in the gaps. They will want to do this. When they start talking, and their personality emerges, shoot it. I know that’s oversimplifying it, but don’t you find people will do that?

Also, for me anyway, I found that as I become more comfortable with the technical, I can pay more attention to the pulse of the shoot. I still have to dedicate too much of my brain to the technical. But as we get more confidence with the technical, the interaction with the people will become easier. Now, if the equipment didn’t change every year, that would help.

Good luck, Jim

Wow, I think there are some very good thoughts here.

I, too, think it is much easier to shoot portraits if your equipment and technique is down cold, so that you can direct your attention to the subject.

I love the pose of the second shot.

Glenn NK · December 10, 2007

Another way to think of it:

I've been the subject of extrovert, pushy photographers; frankly, I didn't react well with them.

Your shyness may actually be an advantage. Only you need know that it bothers you - it doesn't likely bother your subjects.

This may be why the shoot with the lady with the horse worked so well - you weren't dominating, and the subjects shone through. The photographer SHOULD NOT be the centre of attention - extroverts often are.

pathfinder · December 10, 2007

I was watching a series last week on the Ovation channel about a number of photgraphers - Sylvia Plachy, and Timothy Greenfield-Sanders were two of them.

Watching Timothy Greenfield-Sanders shoot portraits was almost like watching paint dry - he really said very little, and made minimal suggestions, sometimes just standing there and looking - or so it seemed at the time - but his portraits were absolutely stunning.

Maybe that relates to what you were saying Glenn. He certainly was not the center of attention, it was definitely his subjects.

Timothy Greenfield-Sanders has a number of books of his portraits - they can be found on Amazon, and are worth looking at. Very nice work indeed. All shot with an 11x14 plate view camera on a tripod, that he rarely seemed to move.

LiquidAir · December 10, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

\I, too, think it is much easier to shoot portraits if your equipment and technique is down cold, so that you can direct your attention to the subject.

Absolutely. I find that to shoot effective portraits I have to have complete confidence in my technical setup so I don't think about it at all.

Some tricks I use for posing:

Learn the poses yourself so you can demonstrate them.

Set the tone for the shot and people will naturally mimic you to some degree. Keep the expression on your face that you want from your subject. Smiles will get you smiles. Frowns will get you frowns.

I will occasionally position feet, but I let my subjects find the rest of the pose on their own.

Watch yor subjects to see how they stand when they look a ease. Use that as your guide for choosing poses.

Try a tripod and a cable release. I find I get much better poses when I am not stuck behind the viewfinder.

pathfinder · December 10, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

Absolutely. I find that to shoot effective portraits I have to have complete confidence in my technical setup so I don't think about it at all.
.
.
.
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Try a tripod and a cable release. I find I get much better poses when I am not stuck behind the viewfinder.

Interesting, LA, watching T Greenfield-Sanders shoot with an 11x14 view camera, and most of his exposures were made with him standing off to the side and not under the dark cloth looking at the ground glass.

He must focus with sufficient DOF that he does not have to refocus during the shoot very often at all. He just stood there with a quizzical look on his face and a remote release in his hand. But lovely portraits of notables, politicians, wounded veterans from Iraq, porno stars, family members, you name it.

He makes a formal portrait annually of each of his family members and has since birth - all 11x14 negatives or positives.

jeffreaux2 · December 11, 2007

I suggest working with people you know and are also comfortable with first.....gradually bringing strangers into the mix. I don't usually touch a client......I do not see the need, but I have on more than one occasion had to tell them that a bra strap or other undergarment was showing and give them time to adjust. Children on the other hand do sometimes need to be posed by actually placing their feet or hands where you want them. This is easily accomplished by asking a parent to pose them as you instruct. No big deal there. I have found though that "posing" is highly overrated. Having a client sit/stand in a position that is comfortable works best for me. Then maybe minor adjustments, and shots from different angles bring it all together. Bonus there is that THEY are comfortable.

christopherstudio · December 11, 2007

i am very shy myself. what i have found to help me is try to srike up a conversation with them about something you see around them or ask them what they would like to see in a picture and work from there. more than likely they will not bite your head off and you will gain some confidence and be able to relax around them.

willw · December 16, 2007

cdonovan: shyness can be a plus, but...

cdonovan wrote:

I'm by nature a very shy person, I'm fine, once I'm comfortable with people, or have known them for quite awhile. I have had troubles working with people for shoots...it's just something that I have to get over, and with some work I am sure that I will...I don't want to touch people to pose them cause all I can think of in the back of my mind is the shifty pervy jostens dude that used to take our school photos!!!

cdonovan, hope you don't mind a little more advice, maybe even a long reply, but I've been down your road and think I can help.

I'm basically shy too. And yet I've always loved taking peoples' pictures. For many years I flirted with the idea of being a freelance photographer but I didn't for many reasons: family financial demands, etc. But one big reason was that I just didn't have the confidence that I could interact with portrait subjects well enough to make it a decent business. So, what to do?

For twenty years, I worked in and around photography and digital imaging in a variety of business and corporate areas but never as a real portrait photographer. After many twists and turns, my corporate career came to a screeching halt a few years ago and I had to get a part-time job while I found a new career. I still didn't think of going into freelance photography because I wasn't sure I could do it right. But, although I had severe reservations about it, I started a part-time job as a photographer in one of the big chain studios at a mall.

Yeah, I know - yuck, right? Well, yes and no. It turns out, it might have been the best thing that happened in my photography career because I had to shoot so many sessions with so many people that I overcame my shyness. I shot about 1500-2000 sessions in 2+ years as a part-timer. I developed the highest repeat/referral rate of any photographer I know in the district.

BTW, I'm a 57 year old straight male. I worked with mostly young women photographers less than half my age. (The chain studios hire mostly younger women because they think they're better with all the kids that are brought into the studios. Sorry, but I proved them wrong over and over.)

Like you, I didn't feel comfortable at first with touching or handling the subjects. But I quickly got over that. As long as I am friendly and tell the subject what I need to do, they never have a problem. I really think my enthusiasm and professionalism lets the subject know that I can be trusted. Now I have no hesitation in straightening a little girl's skirt or even tucking a bra strap back back under a blouse's narrow shoulder strap. As long as I'm friendly and direct, they have never had a comment about it and actually thank me for taking the time to get things straight. Almost all of the recommendations I received at the studio mentioned my relaxed attitude and professionalism. No one ever complained that I was too touchy-feely.

I believe now that if I had worked at a studio - even a mall studio - when I was younger, I would have become a freelancer a long time ago. I have gained the confidence and the relaxed state of mind necessary to make people feel good about their session. I recently started my own business and have high hopes that it will work out well.

So, cdon, go get 'em. Your shyness will probably always come through, but if it's combined with professionlism and commitment to getting the job done well, then your shyness will be seen as a plus. It will automatically let your clients know that you are not the pushy type, even when you are telling them what to do or man-handling them into position. Don't let your shyness override your instincts about what the picture needs, and don't be shy about letting the subject know what is needed. Talk, be friendly, be open and candid, and your natural shyness will come through to work for you to relax your subjects.

Wow, I said this might be a long answer, but jeez... Sorry. Hope it's been helpful.

Icebear · December 16, 2007

That was a great response.
Thank you. You might PM the OP to make certain your response gets to the right person (not that I'm not thankful for it myself).

cdonovan · December 17, 2007

This has all been extremly helpful. My shyness does come through, but it's not a nervous vibe, I am a soft spoken lady of few words. I can strike up a conversation, but really have a hard time to keep it going.

When it comes to weddings, I am game to go, excited, and right there with the wedding party, could be something to do with the fact that I'm with these people for the better part of the day and I just need to get over it. But for shorter sessions, when the clients aren't actually engaged in doing somthing, I get a little anxious! I'm sure it's on a personal level as anyone that I have shot, is quick to recommend me to someone else!

This has all been very helpful to me, and I will reread all the posts again and again!

People HELP

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