Camera care and the cold weather

Dogdots

I live where it can get just down right bone chilling cold. While the cold doesn't stop me from going out to shoot it is causing me to wonder what do do wih my gear when I come inside.

My lenses/camera are cold and I do open my backback and and remove the lens caps to let them warm up. But should I remove the rear caps also so mositure doesn't happen when warming up from being so cold.

Does windchill effect the camera or lens...open in the elements. I've been out when the windchill was around -18. Camera worked good. Only had one problem where it got cold and stopped, but alittle warm up next the to body and it was working fine again.

I'm hoping there are others here with more experiene with how to handle the lenses and camera when coming in from the cold.

If this is posted in the wrong thread please move it---Thanks!

Dogdots/Mary

BikePilot

The camera doesn't mind the cold at all (other than battery life). What you have to be careful of is condensation when you bring it back in. Put it in a freezer bag before brining it inside and let it warm up in there:)

davev

Dogdots wrote:

I live where it can get just down right bone chilling cold. While the cold doesn't stop me from going out to shoot it is causing me to wonder what do do wih my gear when I come inside.

My lenses/camera are cold and I do open my backback and and remove the lens caps to let them warm up. But should I remove the rear caps also so mositure doesn't happen when warming up from being so cold.

Does windchill effect the camera or lens...open in the elements. I've been out when the windchill was around -18. Camera worked good. Only had one problem where it got cold and stopped, but alittle warm up next the to body and it was working fine again.

I'm hoping there are others here with more experiene with how to handle the lenses and camera when coming in from the cold.

If this is posted in the wrong thread please move it---Thanks!

Dogdots/Mary

I live next door in Minnesota, so I understand about bone chilling temps.
I've never done anything special to my camera equipment after coming in from the cold. I've had no troubles at all.
I've never put anything in a bag to bring it in and out of the house.
Do people do this when it's humid in the summer?

As far as wind chill, here's my take on it. If the temp is -5, even with a 35 MPH wind, it's still -5. No colder. I think the wind will cool things down to that -5 quicker, but I can't see how it can make it colder than that.

My 2 cents.

schmoo

There's a great thread about winter and all things photography here. Cameras, gear, metering, etc.

hgernhardtjr

Windchill does not affect non-skin. So the camera and lenses do not give a hoot about windchill, only the actual temperature.

Many years of shooting in Alaska taught me one thing. Place the cold camera, while outside and still cold, into a plastic bag, suck the bag tight, tie it off, and then bring it on in. Frost forms on the outside of the bag, not on the camera or its guts. This has worked for me in below -40° temperatures, although the cameras (film at the time) would not function at that cold a temperature!

Moreover, recently in some -15° temps, I did the same thing with my functioning digital video cam, and it, too, did not fog up by placing and sealing a ziploc bag on the camera while outside and still in the cold.

ziggy53

I too use a ziplock bag occasionally, but a camera bag works reasonably well also. Just let the camera stay inside the bag until the camera temperature is within 10 degrees if in a humid environment to about 20 degrees different in a semi-arid or arid environment.

I would not remove the caps on a lens as that promotes condentation on the lens surface. Rather, just leave it in the camera bag or ziplock until the temperature equalizes.

In both the heat of summer and the cold of winter I often use an insulated "cooler" type bag instead of a regular camera bag. This helps keep the camera from exposure to too many temperature extremes and ground wetness.

If you want to warm up a camera more quickly, use the ziplock baggy approach and either place the camera and lenses in sunlight or over a forced air heat register. I've also used a sun lamp to expedite heating both video and still cameras. Do not try to heat too quickly and rotate the items periodically to better equalize the heating process.

Dogdots

Thanks for the link to the postings on cold temps with the camera and lenses.

Ziploc bags. I've used them for dust protection when out in the prairie, but didn't even think about them with the cold weather.

So if you put your cold camera and lens in a ziploc bag and then bring it into the house you won't have any condensation inside the lens or camera? I wonder how the plastic bags prevents condensation. Just courious. Guess knowing the science behind the workings isn't important -- just the fact that it works

What about changing lenses in the cold. I need to do that. Is it ok? I have done it and haven't noticed any problems yet.

One thing I don't like is how the backpack can get hard and stiff in the cold. Makes handling it even harder. Even the zipper moves slower.

I'm going to have to go to the grocery store to buy some camera
gear

Dogdots/Mary

BikePilot

If the camera is sealed off from outside air there isn't anything to condense onto it:) For condensation you need warm air touching cold stuff. Put the camera in a bag and the warm air in the house won't touch the camera. You take the camera out once its warmed up:)

changing lenses should be fine.

Dogdots

BikePilot wrote:

If the camera is sealed off from outside air there isn't anything to condense onto it:) For condensation you need warm air touching cold stuff. Put the camera in a bag and the warm air in the house won't touch the camera. You take the camera out once its warmed up:)

changing lenses should be fine.

Thanks for the "why and how" . Makes sense to me now. I'm glad changing the lenses will be fine. Just got kinda squirmie about all that expensive glass in the really cold elements

Dogdots/Mary

Joves

Well it gets cold where Im at in Az. Also keep your extra battery in a pocket to keep it warm and, when the other drains out from cold change and, heat the other one. We were at 2F this morning. I was wanting to do some moon lit canyon shots the other night but, it was too windy and, cold. I guess im turning into a wimp in my old age.

Dogdots

Joves wrote:

Well it gets cold where Im at in Az. Also keep your extra battery in a pocket to keep it warm and, when the other drains out from cold change and, heat the other one. We were at 2F this morning. I was wanting to do some moon lit canyon shots the other night but, it was too windy and, cold. I guess im turning into a wimp in my old age.

I swear that the older I get the harder it is to be out in the cold , but 2F is cold....burrrrrrrrr. I have noticed the drain on the energizers in the cold.

pathfinder

Mary, the reason you put the camera in a plastic bag outside, before bringing it in, is that the air, outside in the cold, is VERY dry - if it is below freezing, then very little moisture is held by the air because it is all frozen and falls to the ground.

Your plastic bag put on outside, insures that there is no moisture inside, near the optical and mechanical parts of your treasured camera and lenses. The plastic bag will get condensation on its outside, safely away from your camera.

Once the camera has returned to ambient temperature inside the house, the bag can be removed without concern. It is the humid air inside your dwelling that is the concern. If you leave your camera out overnight, it will stay dry inside a closed, but unheated vehicle. Your battery MIGHT freeze however, so I do not recommend leaving your gear outside.

What I actually usually do, if I am not going to be outside for hours in below freezing temps, is just to leave my gear inside my unopened camera back pack, until a few hours have passed and the gear has warmed back up. If I am going to be outside, unprotected by a vehicle say, for hours in below freezing temps, then I would definitely use a plastic bag over my gear, or even surrounding my back pack entirely overnight or for several ours at the very least.

davev

pathfinder wrote:

Mary, the reason you put the camera in a plastic bag outside, before bringing it in, is that the air, outside in the cold, is VERY dry - if it is below freezing, then very little moisture is held by the air because it is all frozen and falls to the ground.

Your plastic bag put on outside, insures that there is no moisture inside, near the optical and mechanical parts of your treasured camera and lenses. The plastic bag will get condensation on its outside, safely away from your camera.

Once the camera has returned to ambient temperature inside the house, the bag can be removed without concern. It is the humid air inside your dwelling that is the concern. If you leave your camera out overnight, it will stay dry inside a closed, but unheated vehicle. Your battery MIGHT freeze however, so I do not recommend leaving your gear outside.

What I actually usually do, if I am not going to be outside for hours in below freezing temps, is just to leave my gear inside my unopened camera back pack, until a few hours have passed and the gear has warmed back up. If I am going to be outside, unprotected by a vehicle say, for hours in below freezing temps, then I would definitely use a plastic bag over my gear, or even surrounding my back pack entirely overnight or for several ours at the very least.

Not quite.

Just because it's cold outside doesn't mean there isn't humidity.
Right now in Minnesota, it's 19 degrees and the humidity is 79%
In my house, were the air is being heated over an open flame in the furnace,
the humidity is a whopping 30%.
Now if I were to take a hot shower, or boil water of the stove,
I would be adding humidity to the air in the house.

I was with 8 or 9 other photographers tonight and asked them if they had ever used a
bag to put their equipment in before bring it into the house.
One person says he does it only when it's colder than -20.
All said that they have had no problems.

Foochar

davev wrote:

Not quite.

Just because it's cold outside doesn't mean there isn't humidity.
Right now in Minnesota, it's 19 degrees and the humidity is 79%
In my house, were the air is being heated over an open flame in the furnace,
the humidity is a whopping 30%.
Now if I were to take a hot shower, or boil water of the stove,
I would be adding humidity to the air in the house.

I was with 8 or 9 other photographers tonight and asked them if they had ever used a
bag to put their equipment in before bring it into the house.
One person says he does it only when it's colder than -20.
All said that they have had no problems.

There is a lot of math/science content below, but I want to clear up the difference between relative and absolute humidity, as well as give a slightly more detailed explanation of why the bag method works, and why ziplock bags work especially well. If you don't care about why of all this stuff feel free to skip it. :devbobo

Humidity expressed in terms of percentages is normally "relative" humidity as in the humidity is relative to the amount of moisture the air can hold at that temperature. The air at 19 degrees can hold much less water than air at say 68 degrees. Based on the chart at http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/misc/klima.htm air at 68 degrees F (20 C) and a relative of humidity of 30% has a water vapor content of 5.2 g/m3 (grams of water vapor per cubic meter of air). If you cool that air down to 32 degrees F (0 C) without doing anything to remove the water vapor the water vapor will condense (form dew/frost). On the other hand the air at 19 degrees F (about -5 C) and a relative humidity of 80% has a water vapor content of only 2.7 g/m3. Take that same air, heat it up to 68 degrees F (20 C) without adding any water vapor and it will have a relative humidity of about 15%.

Now on to what happens when you bring your camera in from the cold. Your camera is outside and at say 19 F (about -5 C) and you bring it into a room at 68 F (20 C) and a relative humidity of 30%. The air can freely move around so the air next next to the camera is almost instantly at at these conditions, however the camera is still at 19 F (about -5 C) so it cools the air next to it down as the air warms it up. The air right next to the camera cools down to 19 F (-5 C), however it sill has 5.2 g/m3 of water vapor in it, and air at 19 F (-5 C) can't hold that much vapor, so it condenses on to the camera, not a particularly good thing, your camera is now slightly wet. On the other hand you put your camera into a sealed bag and bring it in. The air right next to the bag cools down and the vapor in the air next to the bag condenses, however the warm, moisture laden air can not get into the bag, so the amount of water vapor in the bag stays constant at 2.7 g/m3. If the camera is at room temperature when the bag is opened and it comes into contact with the room air it no longer cools that air below its saturation point and no condensation forms on the camera.

Any bag that prevents the room air from reaching the camera will work, that is why just leaving your camera in a closed up camera bag can be fairly effective, the air next to the camera is the air that your brought it in with, not the warm room air. The ziplock works best because it is completely air tight, or at least is supposed to be. What you have to be most careful of is bringing the camera in from the cold not in a bag, or of opening up the bag while the camera is still cold. Also in the summer in humid climates you can have a similar problem walking from a cold air conditioned room to the outside. If the temperate is 90 F (about 30 C) and the humidity is at 90% (not all that unusual in Washington D.C. in the summer) a camera at 80 F (about 25 C) is cold enough to end up with condensation on it.

Dogdots

Now I really understand the reasoning with the usage of the plastic bag. It makes so much sense. All one needs to do is look at their glasses when they come in from the cold---for those of us who wear glasses

And I love the science behind it. Well done on the science information I knew science class had more to offer then social hour in the back of the room ---and that was so long ago for me.

I do have another question. There are times I'm just driving around and getting in/out to shoot. Thats when the car is warm and the outside is really cold. This won't pose problems with moisture will it? And in the humid summer months you should bag your lenses and camera before going outside? But not when you are returning inside.

Maybe I'm worring over nothing and question things that are of no concern, but with gear that costs money I want to take care of it the best I can.

Thanks to all of you for helping me figure this out.

Dogdots/Mary

pathfinder

davev wrote:

Not quite.

Just because it's cold outside doesn't mean there isn't humidity.
Right now in Minnesota, it's 19 degrees and the humidity is 79%
In my house, were the air is being heated over an open flame in the furnace,
the humidity is a whopping 30%.
Now if I were to take a hot shower, or boil water of the stove,
I would be adding humidity to the air in the house.

I was with 8 or 9 other photographers tonight and asked them if they had ever used a
bag to put their equipment in before bring it into the house.
One person says he does it only when it's colder than -20.
All said that they have had no problems.

Dave, as Foochar pointed out so nicely in his post, I did not talk about relative humidity or %'s, but absolute amounts of water that air will hold - and very cold air is very dry air, even if its relative humidity sounds higher. Warmer air will just hold a lot, lot more water vapor within it before consdensation occurs.

You are correct that the relative humidity may actually be a lower number inside in a warmer room, but the amount of water present is much higher, and the air temperature is far from the condensation point. But you take that warm inside air and cool it down to below freezing, and moisture will condense, that is why your window panes get condensation on them on the inside, not the outside.

Thanks for the explanation, Foochar.

If you have a high amount of relative humidity in very cold air, you are very near seeing it begin to snow. And most snow occurs with warmer air - teens and twenties, not below zero, Below zero air is dry air.

davev

I agree, very good explanation by Foochar.

I've used my cameras in temps as low as -15 F.
I haven't had any problems with this.
Now maybe it's because I'm out using the camera in those temps for
a couple of hours, getting back into a cooler car and driving an hour to get
home. Maybe that's warming the camera up slow enough to prevent the
fogging.
Anyhow, I'm done.