New TSA Battery Guidelines

Andy

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

Be ready for TSA Agents that don't fully understand. Seems you can pack your spare camera batteries in your carryon, but don't pack the huge-normous spare batteries (8g of Lithium) in your checked bags...

ChatKat

Thanks, Andy
Well, it still beats having to buy 800 ASA film and carry it in lead bags, asking them to hand check your film and getting an arguement. Now I just have to argue that my stuff weighs less than 22 lbs if I am going through London - NOT!

BradfordBenn

Just remember a friendly smiling face while dealing with this issue will get you through the line faster....

I spend way too much time in airports and have learned that the TSA agents can make your trip really difficult if they want to.

stirfry

Andy wrote:

Be ready for TSA Agents that don't fully understand.

Chiming in after Benn, ... the TSA is like most bureaucratical environs where unfortunately sometimes (sadly) the folks aren't always up to date on the latest and greatest travel restriction.

I get briefings of new travel regs as they are instituted due to the nature of my job. It's usually a 50-50 chance that any airport I go through is aware of the updates. I sometimes print copies of information (including web URLs) to leave behind just as a friendly FYI for the agents to check out at their own leisure, in hopes it will help downline passengers and crews.

dogwood

Andy wrote:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

Be ready for TSA Agents that don't fully understand.

Or be ready for TSA agents who don't even know about it.

I work in the news media and I've been trying to do a news story on this today-- called my local international airport and no one knew what I was talking about. Called the local TSA rep, she didn't know what I was talking about (I mean, the new regulations go into effect tomorrow, so why know about it a day in advance?). Finally got a national TSA person who told me this is a DOT and/or FAA regulation, not a TSA reg, even though the TSA will be enforcing it (the agents who know about it, that is).

Okay, so my regional FAA referred me to an FAA guy in LA, who then referred me back to the regional FAA office, where I left a message for the on-duty public affairs guy an hour ago.

Keep in mind this new regulation is mostly dealing with CHECKED BAGGAGE -- so you probably won't know they've removed your spare batteries until after your flight. Also, for some odd reason, you CAN carry spare batteries in your checked baggage, they just have to have the contacts taped or be enclosed in a plastic bag

Foochar

dogdots wrote:

Also, for some odd reason, you CAN carry spare batteries in your checked baggage, they just have to have the contacts taped or be enclosed in a plastic bag

I think the issue here is more one of fire risk than it is of terrorism. What they are probably concerned about is that if a lithium battery comes in contact with a piece of metal in such a way that the terminals short out (say it bounces around and a zipper crosses the terminals) then it could get hot enough to start a fire. Remember the laptops that were catching on fire a year or two ago? It was because there were metal shavings in the battery that were causing it to short out and get really hot. That is why they care more about checked baggage than carry-on baggage, if carry-on baggage were to catch fire then it would be noticed and the crew could access it and deal with it. If it is in the cargo hold with the checked baggage then no one is going to notice it until it is a major problem. That is also why the taped terminal and plastic bag are allowed "mitigation" measures. If the batteries are each in an individual plastic bag, or the terminals are taped, then they can't come into contact with anything that would short them out. In the case of Canon batteries Canon actually supplies you with a little cap that snaps over the batteries to keep them from shorting out in you camera bag etc. The rule is "The battery terminals must not be exposed", taping is just one way of accomplishing this that they give as an example.

Sam

OK,

I have a question. If this is primarily for checked baggage, how are they going to know you have a spare battery stuffed under your socks?

Are they going to officially open every bag, or leave it to the baggage handles I saw on TV looting passenger luggage?

Sam

dogwood

Sam wrote:

OK,

I have a question. If this is primarily for checked baggage, how are they going to know you have a spare battery stuffed under your socks?

Are they going to officially open every bag, or leave it to the baggage handles I saw on TV looting passenger luggage?

Sam

At many airports, the TSA now x-rays and randomly searches all checked baggage. At my local airport, you even have to haul your own luggage from the ticket counter, wait in line again, and personally hand it to the TSA screeners. And that's just for checked baggage. I've even had them break open a lock (to be fair, it was not a TSA approved lock) after I handed my bag off. They'll leave a note in your bag if they do this or if they search it when you're not around.

The new regulations are about the fire suppression agents used on aircraft. According to the FAA (I finally got a call back yesterday), the chemicals for fire suppression used in the cargo hold cannot put out fires caused by lithium batteries.

The chemicals in the passenger cabin area, however, can put out fires caused by lithium batteries. So that's why you can carry them on, but not put them unsecured in your checked baggage.

Sam

dogwood wrote:

At many airports, the TSA now x-rays and randomly searches all checked baggage. At my local airport, you even have to haul your own luggage from the ticket counter, wait in line again, and personally hand it to the TSA screeners. And that's just for checked baggage. I've even had them break open a lock (to be fair, it was not a TSA approved lock) after I handed my bag off. They'll leave a note in your bag if they do this or if they search it when you're not around.

The new regulations are about the fire suppression agents used on aircraft. According to the FAA (I finally got a call back yesterday), the chemicals for fire suppression used in the cargo hold cannot put out fires caused by lithium batteries.

The chemicals in the passenger cabin area, however, can put out fires caused by lithium batteries. So that's why you can carry them on, but not put them unsecured in your checked baggage.

Pete,

I have more questions now than before.

Did you happen to ask the explanation for this??? Why would the airlines have a more aggressive fire retardant in the passenger compartment? Why have two totally different, and separate systems on one aircraft?

While the actual materials on fire may require different fire fighting tactics, and fire retarding agents, the ensuing fire no matter how it was initiated would require similar fire fighting, (I would think).

Why not place a complete ban on lithium batteries in the checked baggage?

No wonder I would rather drive. If my spare batteries catch fire, I'll just toss them out the window. Yes I know, there I go contributing to global warming. Al Gore will never see me from 30,000 feet in his solar powered private jet aircraft.

I bet you can't even roll down the window on one of them commercial flights!

Sam

cabbey

Sam wrote:

Did you happen to ask the explanation for this??? Why would the airlines have a more aggressive fire retardant in the passenger compartment? Why have two totally different, and separate systems on one aircraft?

For the same reason we use Halon fire fighting systems in computer labs and not in offices. There are things that are *good* at putting out fires, but they're also *really good* at killing people. Then there are things that are *really good* at not killing people, and *reasonable good* at putting out fires. One of those works well in the passenger compartment, the other in the cargo hold.

dogwood

Sam wrote:

I have more questions now than before.

Did you happen to ask the explanation for this??? Why would the airlines have a more aggressive fire retardant in the passenger compartment? Why have two totally different, and separate systems on one aircraft?

While the actual materials on fire may require different fire fighting tactics, and fire retarding agents, the ensuing fire no matter how it was initiated would require similar fire fighting, (I would think).

Yeah, a lot of people have more questions than before! There are also limits on the amount of lithium you can have-- even in properly stowed batteries. But honestly, calling around the day before this new regulation went into effect, it was pretty tough to find any officials, TSA or otherwise, who had even heard of it.

If you want to REALLY scratch your head (), read this info:

http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/01/li-ion-battery-ban-solution-for-airline.html

I imagine the different fire retardants/systems in the cargo vs. passenger cabins have to do with cost. Sort of like how they heat the cabin but not the cargo area?

And it sounds to me like it's probably cheaper to simply ban loose lithium batteries than require new fire suppression systems in the cargo holds. But again, if the public can't even figure out the new rules when they try to figure them out, how in the world is this going to be enforced? That link above actually recommends you bring a copy of the TSA rules to quote if things get weird, but if they're searching your luggage after you hand it off (and are most likely proceeding to your gate), how will you know the batteries were found and removed until after you arrive at your destination?

BradfordBenn

Any one live in Des Moines, Iowa?
I figure that on January 4th at the airport there might be some battery issues. Might be able to get some bargains

I heard that there are 2,000 rental cars expected to be returned on January 4th in Des Moines alone.

straehle

Keep in mind this new regulation is mostly dealing with CHECKED BAGGAGE -- so you probably won't know they've removed your spare batteries until after your flight. Also, for some odd reason, you CAN carry spare batteries in your checked baggage, they just have to have the contacts taped or be enclosed in a plastic bag

This is not so. If you look at the text on the DOT website, it states that spare Lithium batteries are NOT allowed in checked baggage, but suggests those procedures for batteries in carry on to prevent fires.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

dogwood

straehle wrote:

This is not so. If you look at the text on the DOT website, it states that spare Lithium batteries are NOT allowed in checked baggage, but suggests those procedures for batteries in carry on to prevent fires.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

The information on this link is new since Dec. 31, 2007 when I first started researching this issue. As I mentioned previously, my local international airport and local TSA folks had NOT EVEN HEARD of this new regulation on Dec. 31-- even though it was to go into effect the next day. The only feds who had heard of it were in the regional FAA office 200 miles from me.

As of Dec. 31, the federal gov't DOT and TSA websites were stating you COULD have lithium batteries in your CHECKED baggage as long as the contacts were taped, or they were in plastic ziplocks, or they were in their original packaging. They have obviously changed their tune on this in the last couple of days.

Then again, I remember a time in the not so distant past when I wasn't allowed to carry nail clippers in my carry-on, and now I can. Same for toothpaste. Just like photography, with the government, rules are made to be broken.

EDIT: aaahh -- proof! skip to the conclusion on this post-- see the part about ziplocks and tape? Harrington had the same info from the same website as me!

http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/01/li-ion-battery-ban-solution-for-airline.html

jdryan3

BradfordBenn wrote:

I figure that on January 4th at the airport there might be some battery issues. Might be able to get some bargains

Just like Lighters. Drop one off before you get on a plane - pick one up after you get off.

One a side note, I fly thru Baltimore and have been able to participate in their tests for carryon where you get to keep your shoes on and laptops in your luggage. All metal still comes out of your pockets, but the rest is pretty nice.

Crvtte65

You nailed it Andy

Andy wrote:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

Be ready for TSA Agents that don't fully understand. Seems you can pack your spare camera batteries in your carryon, but don't pack the huge-normous spare batteries (8g of Lithium) in your checked bags...

I flew from Boston to DC without any delays at security on 2/9 but in DC (Reagan) flying back I was flagged as an EDT (explosive detection tech) and I was brought over to a separate station where my camera bag, camera, lenses, everything was probed and swabbed down for explosives.

The tech then opened the pouch where I have 7 AA nickel-metal hydride batteries for my external flash and a spare lithium-ion battery for the camera and said there was new regulations on them. I had no idea so I was kinda pissed if I had to throw out the battery. She checked with her supervisor in another room and said it wasn't in effect yet. After reading http://safetravel.dot.gov/, I kinda understand and it was probably just an excuse for me to hear so I would say she didn't understand it fully!


Emphasis on the lithium-ion as they are very different from lithium-metal batteries which none of us probably use which are the main target of the rules. The other is the size of the spare batteries which, again, none of us probably use.