Noobie HS B-ball

bikingbets · January 2, 2008

Okay all, I'm taking the plunge. I haven't shot SLR for 20 years, so I guess I'm actually a noob.
I got a Canon 40D and a 70-200 f/2.8 IS for Christmas, and hope to do them justice one day. For now I'm tackling local girls' high school basketball. I know there's a lot of noise at ISO 1600, and next time I'll try to bring it down a little.
C & C are welcome!

bikingbets · January 2, 2008

bikingbets wrote:

Okay all, I'm taking the plunge. I haven't shot SLR for 20 years, so I guess I'm actually a noob.
I got a Canon 40D and a 70-200 f/2.8 IS for Christmas, and hope to do them justice one day. For now I'm tackling local girls' high school basketball. I know there's a lot of noise at ISO 1600, and next time I'll try to bring it down a little.
C & C are welcome!

bikingbets · January 2, 2008

johng · January 2, 2008

Welcome!

Not a bad first start.
Shot 1 - nice shot. Did you apply any USM? If not, I think you'll find it will help a good deal.

Shot 2 - focus is off. Too far off for such a tight crop. With an aperture of 2.8 her face should be crisp and clear - and so should the lettering. Just look at the face/lettering in this shot vs. the first.

Shot 3 - again soft. But I also notice you're shooting at 1/200 so you've got potential camera shake as well as motion blur to deal with. You need shutter speeds up around 1/400. That's why the 70-200 isn't a great lens for HS basketball. You either need to shoot at ISO 3200 to get proper shutter speeds AND proper exposure or you need to use external flash. But 1/200 is way too slow. Additionally the ref is still way too distracting in the shot. That's the tough thing about sports photography - plenty of shots ruined by officials or other players.

Still, for a first time - not bad at all. You just need to decide which way you want to go (ISO 3200 or external flash or buy a faster prime) in order to continue shooting HS basketball. I prefer the fast prime route over flash or ISO 3200 but that's me.

Keep at it!!

bikingbets · January 3, 2008

John:

I appreciate your help! I'm learning that it's a lot easier to get a decent shot when the players are still, but the photos tend to be more boring. I'll keep working at it. I'm also trying to figure out how to get the ISO up to 3200 on my 40D. I'll try that for my next shoot so I can get the shutter speed up.

If that doesn't work, I'm expecting a 50mm 1.4 any day in the mail, and I'll try that. Hopefully with the 1.6 sensor I'll be able to get some closeups.

I'm disappointed that I can't sharpen much at all in Lightroom! I don't have Photoshop, so I'll try to find a user-friendly program that I can use for sharpening. Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Betsy

johng wrote:

Welcome!

Not a bad first start.
Shot 1 - nice shot. Did you apply any USM? If not, I think you'll find it will help a good deal.

Shot 2 - focus is off. Too far off for such a tight crop. With an aperture of 2.8 her face should be crisp and clear - and so should the lettering. Just look at the face/lettering in this shot vs. the first.

Shot 3 - again soft. But I also notice you're shooting at 1/200 so you've got potential camera shake as well as motion blur to deal with. You need shutter speeds up around 1/400. That's why the 70-200 isn't a great lens for HS basketball. You either need to shoot at ISO 3200 to get proper shutter speeds AND proper exposure or you need to use external flash. But 1/200 is way too slow. Additionally the ref is still way too distracting in the shot. That's the tough thing about sports photography - plenty of shots ruined by officials or other players.

Still, for a first time - not bad at all. You just need to decide which way you want to go (ISO 3200 or external flash or buy a faster prime) in order to continue shooting HS basketball. I prefer the fast prime route over flash or ISO 3200 but that's me.

Keep at it!!

johng · January 3, 2008

bikingbets wrote:

John:

If that doesn't work, I'm expecting a 50mm 1.4 any day in the mail, and I'll try that. Hopefully with the 1.6 sensor I'll be able to get some closeups.

I'm disappointed that I can't sharpen much at all in Lightroom! I don't have Photoshop, so I'll try to find a user-friendly program that I can use for sharpening. Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Betsy

Hi Betsy.
On the lens - the 50mm 1.4 is a fantastic lens but don't expect many close ups at all. Expect to have a usefull range of about 15 feet with the lens. And I DONT recommend trying to shoot basketball wide open at 1.4. Stop down to 2.0 to get greater DOF.

As for editing software. Photoshop elements can be had for under $1000. Heck, I think the Canon software that came with the camera (Digital Photo Professional) has an Unsharp mask feature.

I believe Gimp is a free photo editing package I've heard used. Might want to google that.

Good luck, and keep shooting!

GP Images · January 3, 2008

Try Picasa, it's free and has some great editing features including sharpen.

bikingbets · January 4, 2008

Thanks John and GP...I shot another game last night (horrible lighting) at ISO 3200, 1/500. This bumped the aperture away from 2.8, but I think the sharpness is worth it.
I downloaded Picasa (nice program!) to sharpen, then imported to Lightroom to apply first aid.
Thanks again for your constructive criticism and thanks for looking!

Betsy

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GP Images · January 4, 2008

Keep it up Betsy, you are doing great. johng is more experienced at this than I and he has great advice. The most important thing is to keep shooting and learning. My pictures this year are far better than the ones I took last season. I shoot exclusively with a 50mm 1.8. Last year I averaged about 400 pics per game with maybe 75 keepers. This year I am averaging about 80-100 pics per game with 40-50 keepers. Post processing takes time and experience. With the 50mm I find I need to crop nearly all of my pics. Shoot and learn then shoot and learn some more.

Dalado · January 5, 2008

Hey GP, is that just 50 mm or can you zoom in or out? Forgive my stupidity... Anyhow, I recently found a 50mm 1.8 that I once used in school. Completely forgot I had it. I havent had a chance to go out with it yet, so I was wondering if its even worth going out with it since I can't zoom with it.

D.

wmstumme · January 5, 2008

Your 50mm is likely a "prime" which means one focal length--50 mm is it, no zoom. Primes generally can get more light than a zoom--hence you can find 50mm as low as f1 or f1.2 and (with Canon) pay less than $100 for a 50mm f1.8. For a zoom with that wide of an aperture, you'll be paying an awful lot more--and you might not be able to find much wider than f2.8. For indoor sports in poorly lit (high school) gyms, f2.8 may just not work.

Being a fixed focal length, it is less versatile but you can still get some good shots. With a 50, you're going get to a good spot close to the action (in basketball--likely somewhere on the end line near the basket) and wait for the action to come much down to your end. Then, with a little cropping once you've got the image on your computer, you can get some pretty good results.

Good luck

Dalado · January 5, 2008

Thanks

bikingbets · January 6, 2008

Noise?
Okay...moving on a little bit:

Is the grain/noise in the second set of pictures solely a function of the higher ISO? Or could it be due to other factors like lower/worse light?

Betsy

bikingbets · January 7, 2008

Never mind...I found a way to take care of it with the computer.

bikingbets wrote:

Okay...moving on a little bit:

Is the grain/noise in the second set of pictures solely a function of the higher ISO? Or could it be due to other factors like lower/worse light?

Betsy

j-bo · January 7, 2008

I'd try to get the yellow hue out of the photo's and they'd be a bit better. You can tell they had terrible lighting!

bikingbets · January 8, 2008

The lighting is horrible in that gym. I used custom WB, even adjusted it PP, and it is what it is. I'll try changing some hues. Thanks for looking!

j-bo wrote:

I'd try to get the yellow hue out of the photo's and they'd be a bit better. You can tell they had terrible lighting!

johng · January 8, 2008

bikingbets wrote:

I used custom WB, even adjusted it PP, and it is what it is.

How did you set your custom WB? These seem to all have a very similar color cast - so it's not like cycling lights where you have red, yellow, green hues. So the issue may be with how you set the custom WB.

bikingbets · January 8, 2008

Thanks for pointing that out. I've been at so many different games lately that I forget what I did where...
That game I used AWB.

johng wrote:

How did you set your custom WB? These seem to all have a very similar color cast - so it's not like cycling lights where you have red, yellow, green hues. So the issue may be with how you set the custom WB.

j-bo · January 9, 2008

and it is what it is

If you take just a little more time, it is what it is can turn into it's better than it was.

Some quickie stuff, you could do lots more to improve this shot and the others if you are selling or giving away. Hope you don't mind. I'm no pshop genius at all either.

Noobie HS B-ball

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