What is your volume discount philosophy?

ArchiTexas

Hi folks, I need some help here. What is your philosophy toward volume discounting? Do you believe in it/provide it? Any rules of thumb? What would seem to be a reasonable sliding scale for volume orders, ranging, say, from dozens of reprints, to a few thousand? Would your pricing change depending on the size of the order? Specifically, I'm faced with the opportunity to provide digital files and then license a limited number of prints of each one. I'm being pressured to be "aggressive" on my pricing, i.e. to lower the per-print cost since they want many. I'm having nixed feelings about trading fees for volume. All opinions are most welcome.

thnx,
ERF

~Jan~

I don't have one and don't plan to. The only "discount" they get is if they order a package. I had one client order 30-some 5x7's of the same image and she had to pay full price on all (she didn't ask for a discount and I definitely didn't offer).

Shudderz

Maybe I go against the norm...but I don't offer packages. I do everything per print. When people ask me about packages, I usually ask them about the last package they bought...did they use all the pictures? The answer has always been no. I explain that I would rather someone get exactly which size prints they want of exactly which pose/shot. They see that the savings is not in buying a "package" to save a few bucks only to have prints left over...but to buy just what they really want/need. My orders continue to average over $300...most in the $400 range for prints.

I may reconsider different pricing if someone wanted as you state "a few thousand."

I don't offer discs of my images. I feel as though I lose all quality control that way. (I have seen what my images look like printed at the local drug store 1 hour lab (awful..highlights blown, bad green tint)...it's great to show customers the difference between them and my pro lab) I have agreed on weddings as part of a package to provide a password protected gallery of all the images "at cost" instead of giving them the files. I price them all .01 over cost so that I can keep track of orders though...then at least I know where the images are being printed and I can control whether they crop the heck out of them etc.

I'm curious on how you plan on truly limiting the number of prints someone can make from a digital file once they have it, even if the license specifies only a certain number of prints? (Of course now a days, nothing really stops people from scanning if they really want to)

May I ask what the prints are for? What kind of shots are they? this info may help people give you a more specific answer/opinion.

OK, I think I've gone on too long...not sure if it was helpful or not...but more details on the decision you're facing may help a bit.

ArchiTexas

Shudderz wrote:

I'm curious on how you plan on truly limiting the number of prints someone can make from a digital file once they have it, even if the license specifies only a certain number of prints? (Of course now a days, nothing really stops people from scanning if they really want to)

May I ask what the prints are for? What kind of shots are they? this info may help people give you a more specific answer/opinion.

OK, I think I've gone on too long...not sure if it was helpful or not...but more details on the decision you're facing may help a bit.

Hi Heather, your comments ARE helpful. To answer your questions, the images will be wall art. The shots are of architecture and regional themes. Specifically the images would go to a hotel chain. Lots of copies of a series of shots. What I've done in the past to control the number of prints is to work directly with the print lab. I deliver my CD with instructions as to how many prints of each, etc. I also get to inspect the work before it is delivered for installation. I feel that by working directly with local, established, printers I minimize the risk of unauthorized prints. The CD is returned to me once the work is completed. In this arrangement the printing is paid for directly by the client and I am paid a fee for the right to reproduce the images.

Rgds,
ERF

rdlugosz

I ran into this situation very recently after a family portrait shoot. They were very happy with the pictures, but asked for a volume discount because they planned to order "25 or 30 smaller prints and a few larger ones". My normal pricing on a 4x6 is $10, $15 for a 5x7... it seemed very reasonable to cut them a deal.

What i ended up doing was lowering the price by quite a lot for the smaller sized prints & left the larger ones alone. Is this right or wrong? Dunno, but it's what I decided to do in this situation. In this particular situation, I think the idea was to give them out to friends & had I not come up with a discount they likely would not have ordered in this quantity.

My reasoning is this - if they do buy 30 & hand them out to friends I'll make $60. If I didn't & they only buy a few 4x6's, I'll likely make *less* than $60. PLUS, there's an intangible here: they'll be handing out 30 pictures to their friends that have my URL backprinted on it.

I think it all depends on the situation. Would I offer this up front? Probably not, but they asked & I think it ultimately works out in my favor.

This is where I'll add the commentary that I wish Smugmug would improve the pricing system and allow for discount codes & package deals (i.e., 4x6's = $10 each or $60 for 30 (of same image)).

Sam

ERF,

At this point I have more questions than answers. How many different images? What size? Quantity of each?

Are they looking for a turn key package, (framed, and ready to hang) or are they looking to purchase printing / usage rights?

What have you quoted that they thought was too high?

Are your images VERY unique? Do you really want to make a sale?

When dealing with business to business, and / or wholesale, motivation, and price can be a lot different than end user / retail.

Sam

ArchiTexas

Sam wrote:

ERF,

At this point I have more questions than answers. How many different images? What size? Quantity of each?

Are they looking for a turn key package, (framed, and ready to hang) or are they looking to purchase printing / usage rights?

What have you quoted that they thought was too high?

Are your images VERY unique? Do you really want to make a sale?

When dealing with business to business, and / or wholesale, motivation, and price can be a lot different than end user / retail.

Sam

Hi Sam,
I appreciate your response. I'm not really looking for an exact answer to my situation via this forum, instead I've been looking to this and other threads to help me think some issues through. The short answers are digital rights, 16x20's, a lot of 'em, not sure how many distinct images, they're unique I think, and the sale would be nice. Also, the images already exist.

Here's my take on the so-called "fine arts market": at one end is work being positioned as true "art" and marketed through galleries or art shows. I frequently see folks price 16x20's at around 5x the cost of the print at shows/exhibits I've been to, plus the cost of the frame/glass. Prices at galleries are often higher. (I'm not talking about established artists here, rather up-and-comers). At the other end of the spectrum is what I'll call the decorative market: corporate office buildings, campuses, hotel chains. What I've noted is that this end of the spectrum will often opt for "poster art", i.e. pre-printed art images that are available from a number of companies for between $10-$40 an image (poster sized). They just frame the stuff and hang it up. Another option for these clients is to go with a stock photo site. Some of the images available through that venue are priced shockingly low! I know, I know, that's not truly unique art, it's just a mass produced poster, but still many clients get used to the low prices the stock art sites and poster art folks offer their wares at. Increasingly, I'm having to choose between sticking to "art gallery" prices and move a handful of images at a time or to suck it up and carve a piece of the other end of the spectrum: accept a low per unit price with the return based on a large volume.

I'll cut to the chase (finally) - is it crazy to reduce the cost of an image from say a "normal" rate of $100 profit for one image, to say a quarter of that if they are buying hundreds of copies of it? Sure the take will be sweet but then again I'd hate to leave a load of money at the table. The artist in me says "the work is unique, its art, its worth the full price, don't be a sell-out, low fees hurt all artists" the bill paying father of six kids in me says "come on, focus on annual sales figures not on the per print take, the work is done, it's just sitting on your hard drive earning nothing, burn them the CD and deposit your check it beats selling a handful of images at full price by a long shot." Enough ranting. I'll let you guys know how it goes down.

ERF

Sam

ERF,

I was trying to get a better idea of what your looking at.

Are these images on your Smugmug site? I ask because your price there for a 16X20 is $17.99. Why doesn't your potential client just buy them off Smugmug? Or are you quoting a much higher price in person? Beware if you do this. It invariably will come back to haunt you.

At an art show or gallery, I would think it quite unlikely to find a high quality print in that size range for $100, but when you are talking about a business buying hundreds of photos to hang in hotels, you have left the fine art world.

Well unless we are talking about a 5 star hotel, or exclusive establishment charging the equivalent of a normal guys weekly, or monthly pay per night.

Seems as though all they want are the image files, and rights to print for this project. If it were me I would be very willing to negotiate terms. (With six kids, dying to negotiate.)

I am assuming you haven't been selling these images like 10 cent hot dogs.

If your asking price is lower than what your prospect is willing to pay, you will have a sale at less than the theoretical maximum profit available. If you quote too high you will have no profit. If you try quoting high, and then continue to drop your price during discussions hoping to hit the magic buy point you will again loose.

It's a game, and a little like playing poker. Negotiate with honesty and consistency. Remember what you want is a mutually beneficial agreement. While reaching an agreement with both parties leaving the bargaining table happy won't guarantee future business, you can confident that you have created an environment that will be conducive to more business, and referrals.

Try and determine what you would like, and what your minimum is. Be firm in your mind so you know at what point you need to say no and walk away. Be aware your prospect has a number he has set in his mind. Your mutual goal is get these numbers to agree. He wants to buy, you want to sell. It's not an adversarial relationship.

I think I rambled a little here, but it's late, and them's me thoughts.

Sam

ArchiTexas

Sam wrote:

ERF,

I was trying to get a better idea of what your looking at.

Are these images on your Smugmug site? I ask because your price there for a 16X20 is $17.99. Why doesn't your potential client just buy them off Smugmug? Or are you quoting a much higher price in person? Beware if you do this. It invariably will come back to haunt you.

a little here, but it's late, and them's me thoughts.

Sam

Hi Sam,
The $17.99 stuff is at my family Smugmug site - no markup there as only Grandma wants to buy my vacation pics1:D

My other site lists 16x20's at $135. I'm certain I'll end up negotiating some sort of reduced rate due to the volume. I've done this in the past for large orders. Since the image sizes are large even a reduced cost is usually a non-trivial amount when multiplied many times over. There is another thread in this forum from about one week ago where I posted some images from a recent installation of my work. It was for the Alamodome in San Antonio, if you find the thread you'll see what my stuff looks like.

I appreciate you help and interest, this forum has become my unofficial "set of advisors".

ERF

Sam

ERF,

The more information I get the more sense it makes. I looked at your other posts, and the images look much better there than the few architectual shots I saw on your Smugmhg site.

$135.00 sounds much more reasonable for an individual print than $17.99.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Sam

george-1

ArchiTexas wrote:

Hi Sam,


I'll cut to the chase (finally) - is it crazy to reduce the cost of an image from say a "normal" rate of $100 profit for one image, to say a quarter of that if they are buying hundreds of copies of it? Sure the take will be sweet but then again I'd hate to leave a load of money at the table. The artist in me says "the work is unique, its art, its worth the full price, don't be a sell-out, low fees hurt all artists" the bill paying father of six kids in me says "come on, focus on annual sales figures not on the per print take, the work is done, it's just sitting on your hard drive earning nothing, burn them the CD and deposit your check it beats selling a handful of images at full price by a long shot." Enough ranting. I'll let you guys know how it goes down.

ERF

One thing to think of - after this sale, the images will probably have less value. I would think that no one is going to say, "I want to spend $135 for a photo just like the one in the last 3 hotel rooms I've been in".

I may be wrong.

I just wish I could take photos like yours.

My 2 cents worth from right up the road.