asked for a wedding bid...help!

Elaine

An old acquaintance of mine e-mailed me today, saying she liked my Christmas card picture and checked out my website and how much would I charge for her son's wedding in September, as well as engagement pictures this spring? Eeeks! :huh

I did some on-line looking at photogs in the area and found a price range of $895-$3295, and not everyone even shows their prices, which makes me think - expensive!

I've decided to first ask some questions...
Where/what venue? (Indoor/outdoor?)
What time of day?
Reception following?
How large/how many people attending?

Anything else I should ask before giving a bid?

I know the B&G are a very young couple and they would not be looking to spend thousands of dollars.
I think by September I could have acquired another lens and maybe a bit more experience and confidence! Hah!

From what I saw, looking at other sites, it seems including the files is quite common, especially with packages over $1500. In fact, at one site, I was quite shocked to see everything they did include, but they also did not show a price. The higher end deals included things like $1500 print credits. The low end, $895, included access to an on-line album for 2 months and access to all the prints for on-line ordering.

I like the idea of including an album and maybe a few special prints. Should the engagement shoot be separate or could a deposit on an engagement/wedding package cover the engagement session?

OK...that was longer than I meant it to be. I'd love to hear some more of that to-the-point advice that people can dish out, even if that is, you should not do this!

~Jan~

Gosh, I know NOTHING about wedding photography, but congrats!! Don't sell yourself short, though. You will take literally hundreds of pics that day so make sure you charge enough of a fee (without print credit) to cover your day + your time editing.

rmcd

Hi Elaine,

I was in a similar situation about a year ago with a coworker and I turned it down. Now, I'm not suggesting you turn down the job. I'm sure you would do a really good job at it! I turned it down because I only had one body at the time. The way I see it is the wedding only takes place on one day, and if I blow it, then there will be some major disapointment all around and I didn't want to take the chance.

I now have to camera bodies, and I'm starting to think about offering my services for weddings. You might want to offer a few different packages to them. You don't know who will be paying for the photographer, so don't base your judgement on the young couple. You may have noticed in your explorations that some wedding photographers will base the number of hours they are available on a particular package. Perhaps your low end package has 4 hours included along with a bunch of prints. A middle end package would have more hours and more prints and at the high end, it might include an engagement shoot. Just food for thought:D

You might even have a really low end that includes no photos at all with the client ordering "a la carte".

Here are the variables you might want to consider when putting some packages together:

- Time spent at the wedding
- Number and sizes of prints
- Location of wedding (far from home or not)

As a former Product Manager, I can say that you can't base your pricing on what you and your friends think is expensive or not. You need to look at the market (which you are clearly doing) and price yourself according to your plan. This doesn't mean that you can't give your friend a discount, just make sure they understand that they are aware they are getting a discount and for how much.

Do a good job and I'm sure you'll get some referrals. They'll even be able to point people to your web site!

Good luck with this! I hope it all works out.

Richard

ShepsMom

First of all, i'm very proud of you, and you should be as well, because someone saw value in your work.

If you don't feel very confident, just be honest with them, find out what their expectations are, what are they willing to spend, etc. I have no doubts you can produce beautiful memories for them, it takes a lot of confidence to dive into unknown.
If i would decide to go with it, i would definately treat is as an opportunity and learn from the experience. I probably won't charge as high as pro would, but that's just me. If they like what you did for them, that would be completely priceless, and think of the possibilites this opportuniy will create for you.
I wish you best of luck, and i hope everything works out for you and them. And of course, we want to see pictures!!

bkatz

Elaine - just make sure you look at this thread too which talks about why brides don't order photos and consider it too.

Sam

Elaina,

Normally when I see a post like yours I wonder what the heck is wrong with people, and I pity the poor clients hiring them, but I don't respond.

I think you however deserve a response.

I took a look at your site, and after viewing can understand how the couple was motivated to hire you.

To me it looks like your people, camera, and post skills are certainly adequate for wedding work, and from your posts here I can see your concerned about quality, and honesty.

This is a great start!

The very best thing would be if Shay were to enter this discussion. Shay.......Shay.......

I would recommend thinking about the following:

1. Gear: You need to have two of everything. Before you have a heart attack, you can borrow or rent what you need, and rent the same gear you own. Avoid the temptation to rent better equipment, (lenses are obviously an exception). You want to be totally familiar with the equipment, not trying figure out how it works.

2. The event: Make sure you know how to shoot in low light, and or use your flash.

3. Prints, and albums: Are you going to offer prints? How about albums? Do some research here.

4. Think about a shot list:

5. Can you second shoot for a local wedding photographer? I would shoot for free in necessary to get the experience. Maybe go to the church where the couples is getting married and see if there might be some people in the service or others with limited finances that you could donate your services to while learning.

6. Do they want an engagement shoot?

7. Read all you can, and develop a plan, but remember once the first bullet is fired the original plan will need to be adjusted on the fly. This is where the practice really pays off.

I know you have what it takes to learn, study, and practice so your first real wedding will be a wonderful success.

Keep us posted!

Sam

Edited to add: Also think about insurance. You trip the MOB, she falls inro the cake, the caterer, strains his back trying to catch the cake, inadvertantly knocking a guest down. The guest losses his grip in his fork while flailing his arms to regain ballance, and the fork flys out the window striking a homeless person, who is now suing you for 50 million dollars.

Elaine

Sam wrote:

Elaina,

Normally when I see a post like yours I wonder what the heck is wrong with people, and I pity the poor clients hiring them, but I don't respond.

Sam, you're such a straight shooter...I love it! This totally cracked me up! I'm glad I passed your test for a response! Whew! I can see where you're coming from though...my post does sound a little desparate and like it would be crazy for someone to hire me, especially with some of the other questions and points I've raised in here lately. Ahh well...we gotta start somewhere, right?

I really appreciate all the pointers. I will read through them again, and then again. Thanks for taking the time to post!

Elaine

bkatz wrote:

Elaine - just make sure you look at this thread too which talks about why brides don't order photos and consider it too.

Thanks...I did see that. I'm inclined to not provide the files, unless I'm getting paid A LOT!

Elaine

ShepsMom wrote:

First of all, i'm very proud of you, and you should be as well, because someone saw value in your work.
...
I wish you best of luck, and i hope everything works out for you and them. And of course, we want to see pictures!!

Thanks, Marina! I appreciate the vote of confidence. I've been a second shooter at one wedding and experienced how much work was involved. I'm pretty sure this will be a small and simple wedding, but it would certainly be a learning experience. I'm not sure yet how much they were thinking of spending on photography. To be honest, I'm wondering if they are planning to spend any at all...maybe just have a family member take snapshots? So, I'm a little afraid that even a beginner-photog discount would be too much. But, I've decided that whatever price/package I offer, I'll stick to. If that doesn't work for them, then I'll not do the job.

Elaine

rmcd wrote:

Hi Elaine,
...

Good luck with this! I hope it all works out.

Richard

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Richard! You raise some interesting points...things I'll certainly consider.

Elaine

~Jan~ wrote:

Gosh, I know NOTHING about wedding photography, but congrats!! Don't sell yourself short, though. You will take literally hundreds of pics that day so make sure you charge enough of a fee (without print credit) to cover your day + your time editing.

Thanks, Jan! Yes, I took about 1200 pics at the wedding I was second shooter for last fall. Wow, was that an editing process! I definitely want to make my workflow much more efficient before I deal with something like that again!

bkatz

Elaine wrote:

Thanks...I did see that. I'm inclined to not provide the files, unless I'm getting paid A LOT!

Elaine - you should also think about them prepaying for a certain amount of photos - whether in an album or free - offering them a package to make sure that you actually have worked printed to your quality and displayed the way you approve of.

jcdill

Elaine wrote:

An old acquaintance of mine e-mailed me today, saying she liked my Christmas card picture and checked out my website and how much would I charge for her son's wedding in September, as well as engagement pictures this spring? Eeeks!

This past summer I had something similar happen - 2 different friends asked me to be their photographer for 2 weddings, 1 week apart.

Here are some of the things I did to make this all work:

1) Hire an assistant shooter. Do NOT do this with just one shooter, one camera. Even if the assistant doesn't really help much, you can probably hire the assistant for not-much-more (if at all) than the cost of renting pro-quality backup cameras. Having an assistant also covers all sorts of wedding-day emergencies like car trouble, flu or food poisoning, etc. The odds that an emergency like this that keeps one of you from making it to the church on time would happen to BOTH of you on the same day are very very low.

2) Both of these weddings were for people who are very technical, who wanted the full size image files. I decided to give them the full-rez images and budgeted that into my pricing. I also put together online galleries that they could order prints from "if they wanted". One party ordered a LOT of prints - total price of this order was almost as much as I charged the other party to shoot the wedding. The other party didn't order any prints but they were the ones with the lower budget, and they did pay me 1.5x their budget for my services. However one of their guests did order prints. (Don't forget to take candid/portraits of the guests!)

3) Ask them what their photographer budget is. Then put together a package that is for 1.5x to 2x MORE than the budget. Add some sizzle to that package such as albums, large prints (12x18 or 16x20), regular prints (4x6 to 8x12) etc. Have in reserve a more modest package that meets their budget. I upsold both the weddings on a package that was 1.5x to 2x over their budget by explaining what they got for that package in a way that enticed them to want it.

If their budget is more than you were thinking of charging, you can either "raise your rates" to match their budget, or add in enough extras to put together a package to fit their budget.

If their budget is less than you feel is a reasonable rate, be prepared to explain why the reasonable rate is higher than they thought. This was what I did with the party who had the lower budget. They initially wanted to hire a phtoographer for ~$500-600. When I explained all the work that goes into preparing to do the job, actually doing the job, the post processing, the rental cost of my equipment, the rental cost of backup equipment (these "fees" are covered by purchasing the equipment but you still have to account for that cost and the "rental" cost is a good way to establish what that value is), hiring an assistant, etc., then they were willing to stretch their budget to bring it up to a rate that I was willing to work within. What I did is break down why a typical wedding photographer package is ~$3500-5000, and then offer them a discount package (fewer features) that I would normally charge $1800 for, and then said I was giving them a 1/3 discount (as my friends) for a total of $1200 - 2x their initial budget.

Get a 50% deposit when they sign the contract. The remaining 50% is paid at the wedding.

4) If you don't have much experience with event photography, or with shooting people in low light - get it now. Before you even give them a quote. You need to have an idea of how much time it takes to post-process low-light and event photos. We took ~1200 photos for one wedding, ~1800 for the other. I culled to about 1/2 that number for the shots I showed them, and culled again to about 200 shots that are the "highlights" from each wedding. To upload the cards to my computer, make copies on my backup drive AND on DVD, keyword, chimp, do first-run exposure adjustments if needed (low light shots often need this) and make proofs to upload to an online gallery took more than 10 hours for each wedding. So my total time for each wedding was 3 days work even though the actual "wedding and reception" was just 4-6 hours. It took another half-day each to make full-size jpegs (I always shoot in RAW) and then burn the RAW and jpegs to DVDs and mail them off. (Most of that was computer-processing tiem rather than my actual labor, but I had to be on the computer that whole day to deal with each step as it needed to be done - changing and labeling DVDs, etc.)

5) For the party that had the bigger budget, I bid high for the wedding, and then gave them a free engagement photo session as my gift to them.

6) Google for wedding photographer contracts, then use their ideas to make your own contract. Here are some things I hadn't thought to include that I discovered and included:

A) Have the contract name all the people in the wedding party. This helps you know how big, how formal, the wedding is going to be.

What time is the service? What time (start and end) is the reception? When will the formal shots be taken? Location for each (service, reception, formals). Will you shoot preparation shots (bride getting ready) and if so, what time and where?

C) Have them name someone to be your people wrangler for the formal shots.

D) At least 2 weeks before the wedding you have a final meeting to go over details such as all the formal shots they want taken (who is in each shot), the wedding schedule, etc.

E) The color of the bride's dress, and bridesmaids dresses, etc.

F) Can you use flash during the ceremony? If not, you are not resonsible for the loss of quality due to shooting in low light conditions. (For us photographers this is obvious, for the bride and/or her mother this may not be obvious - they may expect miracles.)

I'm sure thre's a lot more that I can't remember right now but this should keep you busy for a few days. :-)

Congratulations, and good luck!

anwmn1

I'll chime in on this since I recently booked the first wedding I will do on my own.

First off congratulations and your work is definelty up to par to shoot a wedding. Low light and the fact that there is no posing during the ceremony are the real challenges you are faced with.


I have been assisting a wedding photography company off and on for a little over a year with what I consider mixed results. Recently I had two people that saw my work in different areas and asked if I would consider shooting their weddings.

I was very honest and upfront with them stating that I don't prefer shooting weddings though I assist a company on occasion (just not my cup of tea) and have not done a wedding as the primary shooter. I also told them I do not offer a package or do albulms- just charge a flat hourly rate.

I was brutaly honest not because I didn't want the work but to be sure they know in a way they are taking a chance hiring me compared to someone that does it on a regular basis. This did not detract either one so we then began discussing prices.

My questiosn to them:

1. What price range are you looking to spend?
2. What are your expectations of work at that price range?


One of the deals did not work out because there price range was just too low - even for me not having a lot of experience.

The second couple was still interested so we met one evening to discuss in a little further detail. Like your possible clients they are a young couple and these two did not have a lot of money to spend for a photographer.

I asked many of the same questions others have been mentioned:

Date of wedding
Time and location of Ceremony
Time and location of Rehearsal
Time allotted in between for pictures
Before ceremony pictures (can groom see bride or not until ceremony?)
How big is wedding party
Is flash allowed during the ceremony
Are there any other photo limitations inside the church
Couple needs to have a detailed list of requested photos- Grandparents- friends- aunt- uncles- cousins- By Name and they need to be notified they are requested to be in photos.
List of photos at reception

Bride and Groom shots at Ceremony- Reception- or another location?


Once we went through that I answered any questions they had and showed them some of my work and possibilities including some un-edited work. This allowed me to understand what they liked or didn't like. Lucky for me they like standard formals for the wedding party, artsy shots for them, and lots of b&w.

I then told them my offer which was:

1. $$$ hourly rate for the wedding day
2. Photos uploaded to website w/ order options
(print prices very cheap)
3. Website gallery can be hidden and password protected if requested
4. I sold them on the perks of this- they do not have to order photos for everyone- just send the link and everyone can order what ever they want
5. Free engagement session w/ free 11x14 to be used for mat signing (their request)
6. For $$ they can have med res files of all finished shots- engagement and wedding
7. No Albulm- but mentioned Blurb, Snapfish, Mac etc. as ways for them to create their own book
8. Half of the money is due at the engagement session (ensures they are serious)
9. Other half is due 1 week before-(don't want to have to hound anyone the day of the wedding)


My thought process for this is:
I have not shot a wedding as the primary so I am a little nervous (perfectionist attitude)
The rate is very resonable considering prep time, drive time, and editing time that is behind the scenes.
I will ask a friend that also does photography if they want to make $100 and come shoot a wedding with me.
I have 2 cameras, 2 flashes, and several lenses but it wouldn't hurt to have another person
My print prices are cheap because I will make the money I want on the hourly rate- any print sales are just cheddar (pleases them too)

I figure if it goes well than I can charge more as I get more comfortable. I want to please not only the customer but also myself.


I say book it at whatever price you are comfortable with!

Elaine

jcdill wrote:

This past summer I had something similar happen - 2 different friends asked me to be their photographer for 2 weddings, 1 week apart.

Here are some of the things I did to make this all work:
...
Congratulations, and good luck!

Wow! Thank you so much for the detailed post! What a great bunch of advice that I'm sure will benefit others as well. Thanks for taking the time to write this all down.

It's been a week since I responded to the initial inquiry about the wedding. I asked a few questions about time of day, location, how many people, etc..., but I haven't heard anything back. We'll see what happens.

Elaine

anwmn1 wrote:

I'll chime in on this since I recently booked the first wedding I will do on my own.
...
I say book it at whatever price you are comfortable with!

Another great post with great info! Thanks, Aaron! It's helpful to hear what has worked well for other people. As I mentioned above, I haven't heard anything back yet, so who knows if I'll actually do the job or not. Regardless, this information is very valuable and I thank you for sharing it.

jeffreaux2

WEll Elaine......

I know that you recently servrd as second shooter at a wedding and did a wonderful job. As far as considering the time spent at the wedding....yes...do consider it, but as you know the time spent editing is the bulk of what you should be paid for. I spent 50 hours on my first wedding that included engagement photos and bridals as well as all day coverage of the wedding and reception. You should be sure that the price you charge makes you feel comfortable about spending that amount of time. The hourly rate that you figure this out with depends on you. Next, also include the cost of any rental equipment. Lastly, you can include prints in this price. I offered 100 4x6's, 8-5x7's, and a few 8x10's. I also included a dvd containing low res files of ALL of the images. I then listed my print prices for extra prints they might want to order.

Good luck. Just remember that the prints will cost you very little in the big scheme of things and that what you are really after is being paid for your time. Giving them a better package of prints than the next guy will sell it for you.