Do you offer 4 x 6's?

thehikingdude

I've seen a thread or two that happened to include the concept of not offereing a 4 x 6 print since people have become accustomed to paying 15-17 cents for one and that more value is seen from 5 x 7 and up.

With this in mind I'm very curious to hear if any of you are not offering a 4 x 6 and how that has affected sales or customer feedback.

Thoughts?

Bill_M

I stopped offering them to avoid the hassle of spending hours of post-processing time only to have the customer order 15 4x6 prints.
So far I've had a few clients ask for them...and I will offer them if they're insistant (and I feel the total order will be worth my while), but I don't offer them as a default option.

On a side note, I still haven't established a good price for them when I do offer them. When a 5x7 is $7...what should a 4x6 be? $5??

Good luck...

DavidTO

Bill_M wrote:

I stopped offering them to avoid the hassle of spending hours of post-processing time only to have the customer order 15 4x6 prints.
So far I've had a few clients ask for them...and I will offer them if they're insistant (and I feel the total order will be worth my while), but I don't offer them as a default option.

On a side note, I still haven't established a good price for them when I do offer them. When a 5x7 is $7...what should a 4x6 be? $5??

Good luck...

Given the fact that you don't want to sell them....$7.

Bill_M

DavidTO wrote:

Given the fact that you don't want to sell them....$7.

Funny you should say that, I was researching some other people's pricing & I do see where people are offering 5x7 & 4x6 at the same price. This idea might be worth a try.

Thanks,
Bill

DrDavid

I had no 4x6 option for a while, then, turned it on... I've been pricing it at $5 - 4x6 & $8 - 5x7. I'm still in the portfolio building process, so, I can't go too nutty quite yet, but, I intend to double the prices (at least) once I have a good steady flow of customers.

The reason I turned on a 4x6 option was to allow people to order a 'bunch' of photos to put in their albums. I figure the end result is that they see how nice the 4x6's are, and fall in love with one of the prints, and order the really expensive mounted canvas

It's definately less money for essentially the same amount of work. Also, some people really like the 4x6's for scrapbooking, etc.. So, they'll order a bunch of the same one to hand out, etc..

Just my 2 cents

David

thehikingdude

Excellent feedback from all. With the thought that I'm still very new to this I think it might be best to stick with the 4 x 6. Maybe later I will consider making a change.

Thanks!

cdonovan

That is exactly what I have done, I've had emails asking if the pricing was right. I said absolutely. Everyone get's 4x6's printed off their point and shoots, but when they order from me, I want the photo to stand out in size, not only content. I have had minimal people order the 4x6's, mostly it's to fit a frame that they already have purchased. I never print anything smaller than a 5x7 for myself, so I like to get my clients to do the same.

claudermilk

Bill_M wrote:

Funny you should say that, I was researching some other people's pricing & I do see where people are offering 5x7 & 4x6 at the same price. This idea might be worth a try.

Thanks,
Bill

I've been thinking along those lines myself. It's probably time to go review pricing on my site & revise it anyway...

twincitiesphoto

wow - you all are charing $5 for a 4x6 photo - and I felt quilty charing $0.49 for one !!!

cdonovan

depending on the situation....my 4x6's generally start at $10.00! I want to be compensated for the work I do! and I havne't had any complaints!:D don't be afraid to value your work...cause if you don't...no one else will!

Shutterbugmom

I am fairly new to the "business" too and I just had my first online sale. It was for 29 4x6's at $5.49 each! I felt kinda felt bad at first, but then I realized that because I took, processed and uploaded them, I deserve to get paid for my time. I charge about double that for my fine art 4x6's.

If I'm too cheap, people will think I'm not serious about my work or that maybe I'm not very good at what I do. I am finding out that I must first believe in myself and my work. If I'm not confident in myself, my customers won't be, either.

I don't charge my family that much for our everyday family shots. I charge them just a bit over my price (for tracking), but it lets my out-of-town/state family members order prints and I don't have to keep printing and sending them in the mail anymore. Keep in mind that I don't process or scrutinize my snapshots for family the way I do my landscapes which command a much higher price, so I can run them through the image processer fairly quickly. I also have the galleries set to auto so Smugmug takes care of the color and all, if needed. However, if family wants fine art, they pay the full price for it or I give it to them for their birthday/Christmas/etc...

Blessings to you and your new business venture! :photo

eschrad

Almost all of my sales are 4x6s...
and they are typically large quantity orders. In fact, I am right now in the process of uploading images for an order of 50. Now, my sales are all in action sports and event photos, so only rarely do I get an order for larger images that would be framed. Most people who order prints want them for scrapbooking, and then everyone else is content to just look at them online.

I currently am selling my 4x6s for $1.50 and 5x7s are priced at $3.50. Now, before I get flamed for bringing the industry down, I am not a full-time pro photog who is trying to make her entire living from this work... I have a full-time job as a graphic designer (and photographer) for a non-profit. Currently, all of my freelance photo-for-money work comes under 2 categories: 1) I am paid an hourly rate to cover an event for an organization and I hand over digital files for them to do with as they please, or 2) I am shooting for a team that I have a personal connection to (for a few years it was my brother's college football team and now it is the high school baseball team my dad coaches) -- I shoot the games as a favor and because I enjoy it. I feel I am charging enough to cover my real expenses (i.e. Smugmug fees) and then some, and any amount of time I put into it is my gift to the team.

When it comes right down to it, my biggest markup IS on 4x6s... I offer the larger sizes, but beyond 11x14, I am not charging much more than cost -- just a few dollars over to cover Smugmug's percentage and give me a little something. And since I am not using the latest and greatest equipment (a 20D and a 70-200/2.8 that I stretch with teleconverters), I also feel that my prices reflect the quality of images I am currently able to provide with my limited equipment.

I know some don't want to have to PP all those images for lower price/higher quantity orders and instead would rather sell one really good image that is given the full treatment in Photoshop for a premium price, but I have to tell you... the average customer doesn't see the difference that all that Photoshop time produces. To them, it's all about the image and not how perfectly color balanced it is... they just don't see it when color or exposure is slightly off like we do. So I just try to get something close and then let Auto Color take care of the rest... if something goes awry with the Auto treatment, I know Smugmug will reprint for free. (Of course, my fine art images would be a whole other story, but I am not currently selling those online... don't really have a market.)

I do spend a lot of time (probably more than I need to) keywording and sorting and editing the photos I take, but Lightroom has greatly improved this process for me. I am able to make those minor exposure and color corrections much more simply and quickly now and then I can apply sharpening and noise reduction to the whole lot before uploading. When an image is ordered, if I feel it is necessary to fine tune the adjustments before printing, I do, but for the most part, it isn't necessary... particularly for 4x6s. At that small size, the print actually looks better than the digital file anyway... the size hides a multitude of sins like noise and slight blurriness.

Anyway, I would much rather a customer be able to enjoy 50 of my images instead of just 5!

-Erin

allsmiles

Pricing 4x6s

cdonovan wrote:

depending on the situation....my 4x6's generally start at $10.00! I want to be compensated for the work I do! and I havne't had any complaints!:D don't be afraid to value your work...cause if you don't...no one else will![/quote)

I agree. I charge $15, with only a little hemming and hawwing, but then they receive the end product and are only too happy. However, in the future, I would like to see an option for say $5 off of each additional image of that size ordered at the same time.

Bill_M

eschrad wrote:

And since I am not using the latest and greatest equipment (a 20D and a 70-200/2.8 that I stretch with teleconverters), I also feel that my prices reflect the quality of images I am currently able to provide with my limited equipment.

-Erin

Hi Erin,
I just wanted to comment that if you think a 20D & a 70-200/2.8 lens are 'limited equipment', you are seriously undervaluing yourself. Some of my friends are pro sports-shooters & they often use lesser or the same equipment.
If your images are poor quality, your equipment is not to blame.

allsmiles

Bill_M wrote:

Hi Erin,
I just wanted to comment that if you think a 20D & a 70-200/2.8 lens are 'limited equipment', you are seriously undervaluing yourself. Some of my friends are pro sports-shooters & they often use lesser or the same equipment.
If your images are poor quality, your equipment is not to blame.

Hi Bill,

I made my first post the other night regarding selling 4x6s. My name is Erin, but that wasn't my post. I finally got up the nerve to stop "lurking" and start "posting" (a New Year's resolution), and I probably screwed it up somehow. I don't know anyone else that uses Smugmug, or digigrin, so I had no one to consult before pushing send.

Anyway...weird. I do use a Canon 20D and the above lens for portraiture, but I have a 75-300 for my sports photography (though it is not a Canon). I am still (always) in the process of "making friends" with my equipment. I know very well, it is who is behind the equipment that makes the photograph, not the equipment itself. My all time favorite camera, with which I produced some of my favorite work, was my Pentax K1000.

Pardon me while this newbie fumbles around here.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers,
Erin

allsmiles

Got it. There are two "Erins" here. I am blushing! How am I ever going to post again?!

The information around here really is so helpful and I do appreciate it.

Good day,

mbellot

eschrad wrote:

I know some don't want to have to PP all those images for lower price/higher quantity orders and instead would rather sell one really good image that is given the full treatment in Photoshop for a premium price, but I have to tell you... the average customer doesn't see the difference that all that Photoshop time produces. To them, it's all about the image and not how perfectly color balanced it is... they just don't see it when color or exposure is slightly off like we do. So I just try to get something close and then let Auto Color take care of the rest... if something goes awry with the Auto treatment, I know Smugmug will reprint for free.

Anyway, I would much rather a customer be able to enjoy 50 of my images instead of just 5!

-Erin

Erin,

I'm totally with you. Its a hobby, I enjoy taking pictures and just want others to enjoy them. The money helps offset some of the costs.

I just got done processing two dance recitals and was not real impressed myself (ISO3200 was the norm, and a fair number still had motion blur).

So far everyone's reactions have been Wow! and Oh My! :ivar

The average customer (or I should say - my average customer) is really interested in the subject (their performer) and not the technical perfection (or lack of) in the shot.

PeterLyons

I guess I may as well jump in too...

I shoot watersports (sailing, kayaking, windsurfing, etc.) and sell a lot of 4x6s. In fact, probably as many as all other sizes combined. I charge $9 for them, and nobody has complained yet. In fact, when I started out and was charging $5, one of my clients told me, "You know... you're really cheap. You could charge more." So I looked around at other people selling similar stuff, and raised my prices to the market level.

Do I feel guilty? Never! There's no reason to. I have a lot of money and time invested in doing what I do, and I'm selling a quality product that's fully satisfaction-guaranteed.

BTW, I don't just let orders automatically process. For every print ordered, I go back to the original RAW file to level the horizon, remove dust spots, adjust color balance, contrast and saturation, and then upload a new master file for printing.

justus

Value
Couldn't agree more. Your work is worth a heck of a lot more than .46 cents apiece! Factor in the cost of fuel to each shoot or event, and you'll see expenses adding up fast!

If you don't believe in what you are selling and give it away, you'll reap what you sow. People will perceive you as cheap and not worth their business.

I sell a lot of 4 x 6's to people who then turn them over to their horse farm webmaster to scan into their web pages for advertising their horses. Many times these photos were taken at a show where the horse won something big, and they want to promote it on their site. I don't allow digital downloads, since I can't proof them prior to sale, so the 4 x 6's work best for my clients. Also, a lot of clients want copies for grandparents, etc of a good shot, so they will tack on a few smaller prints for them when they order their 5 x 7's or 8 x 10's.

PeterLyons

Hey Justus!

I understand what you mean re: digital downloads. But in a way, you CAN proof them. What I do is, let them buy the download. SmugMug will provide it for them, and will let you know the sale was made, and provide an e-mail address along with it. You can make it clear on your SmugMug site that downloads will be followed up with the adjusted version e-mailed to them, and then do just that.

Best of luck!
Peter