Flash or no Flash

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

I have read many things saying using no flash is better. But then I have someone telling me to use the flash. Which is it? I personally think no flash is better color quality and you don't have to worry about shadows. But I need some personal opinions. I have been asked to take pictures of a wedding which would be my FIRST professional "gig". It isn't until next year in April, but I want to be totally prepared!

jfriend · January 10, 2008

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

I have read many things saying using no flash is better. But then I have someone telling me to use the flash. Which is it? I personally think no flash is better color quality and you don't have to worry about shadows. But I need some personal opinions. I have been asked to take pictures of a wedding which would be my FIRST professional "gig". It isn't until next year in April, but I want to be totally prepared!

It depends on the lighting present. There are situations where the natural lighting is just bad, not just low light, but unpleasant light leading to bad shadows under eyes, mixed quality light, etc... In these cases, you just get better shots with a properly done flash shot. There is significant technique involved to getting high quality shots with a flash. You typically want to get the flash off the camera and be using some form of bounce and diffuser, maybe even multiple flashes.

In other cases the natural light is beautiful and if you can make the f/stop, shutter speed and ISO work to produce a good photograph on your equipment, you can get some beautiful shots.

The wedding photographers I've seen recently have been using a flash at least for fill light, though some do some specific natural light shots in pre-planned locations.

Scott_Quier · January 10, 2008

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

I have read many things saying using no flash is better. But then I have someone telling me to use the flash. Which is it? I personally think no flash is better color quality and you don't have to worry about shadows. But I need some personal opinions. I have been asked to take pictures of a wedding which would be my FIRST professional "gig". It isn't until next year in April, but I want to be totally prepared!

Your question causes me to think a bit about your situation. I've made some assumptions in an effort to provide you the best answers I can and to help you better prepare for the gig. It is not my intent to offend and if I have, I apologize in advance.

A better answer to this question was taught me by Shay Stephens, "You should only use flash to solve problems." Of course, the corollary is that you use lighting to solve problems you see.

So, if you have adequate light and the shadows are not too strong (your images are not too contrasty), then you don't need flash. But, if you don't have enough light to keep the shutter speed up and/or the aperture closed down enough, you need to add light. If the light you have is not controlled enough and/or you are not getting the image you want, you add light.

"worry about shadows" - You want shadows in your shots! Especially when you are shooting people. Shadows give depth to the facial features, rendering a more 3D image. Without shadows, your result is going to be flat.

Here's where the assumptions start:

A question - your wedding gig is in April. Of 2008 or 2009? I don't really want to be harsh, but if it's in 2008, it appears to me you may have a lot work ahead of you and a short to time to accomplish it. At a minimum, you should be able to make all necessary adjustments to your camera in the dark, 'cause the reception is usually very dark. If you can't do that now, please learn before the wedding - it will save you all kinds of headaches. You should be able to look at a scene and at least have an idea of what lighting, if any, needs to be added to make it right and generally how much (fill, main/key, etc). A wedding is not where I would want to be practicing and/or experimenting. You should know all the answers before you even walk in the door.

On a more gentle note, I just looked at your profile and find only one camera listed. You need, need, need (get the hint

) a backup camera; it should be one that can share lenses with your main camera.

Speaking of backups, you should really have backups for everything you need. That means more than one lens with more than just a little over-lap in the focal lengths. Flash - do you have two. Batteries, both for the flash and for the cameras - you need backups. Memory - I always bring at least twice what I think I will need for the day and I never re-use a memory card during the day (no dumping to a laptop and then reusing it!).

Why do I stress backups? For the following reasons:

A wedding is (supposed to be) a once in a lifetime event. There are no "do overs". You have to get it right at the time it happens. If your camera locks up on you, you must be able to pick up the other one and keep right on going.
There are horror stories, lots of them, about photographers having two cameras and they both get sick during the wedding. That's when you need a backup for your backup. So, if it can (and does) happen to those with two cameras, can you imagine what kind of risk you take with just one?
If you haven't experienced a camera failure, please don't think one won't happen when you can least afford it to happen. What it does mean is that you are that much closer to the time when it does happen.

Lenses - What do you have. If the wedding location is indoors, you will need fairly fast glass or lots of flash. Most officals frown on flash during the ceremony. I would strongly recommend you have f/2.8 or faster glass. A couple of fast primes will fill the bill, depending on the pace of the wedding (I've yet to see a slow one though - so be prepared).

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

Scott_Quier wrote:

Your question causes me to think a bit about your situation. I've made some assumptions in an effort to provide you the best answers I can and to help you better prepare for the gig. It is not my intent to offend and if I have, I apologize in advance.

A better answer to this question was taught me by Shay Stephens, "You should only use flash to solve problems." Of course, the corollary is that you use lighting to solve problems you see.

So, if you have adequate light and the shadows are not too strong (your images are not too contrasty), then you don't need flash. But, if you don't have enough light to keep the shutter speed up and/or the aperture closed down enough, you need to add light. If the light you have is not controlled enough and/or you are not getting the image you want, you add light.

"worry about shadows" - You want shadows in your shots! Especially when you are shooting people. Shadows give depth to the facial features, rendering a more 3D image. Without shadows, your result is going to be flat.

Here's where the assumptions start:

A question - your wedding gig is in April. Of 2008 or 2009? I don't really want to be harsh, but if it's in 2008, it appears to me you may have a lot work ahead of you and a short to time to accomplish it. At a minimum, you should be able to make all necessary adjustments to your camera in the dark, 'cause the reception is usually very dark. If you can't do that now, please learn before the wedding - it will save you all kinds of headaches. You should be able to look at a scene and at least have an idea of what lighting, if any, needs to be added to make it right and generally how much (fill, main/key, etc). A wedding is not where I would want to be practicing and/or experimenting. You should know all the answers before you even walk in the door.

On a more gentle note, I just looked at your profile and find only one camera listed. You need, need, need (get the hint ) a backup camera; it should be one that can share lenses with your main camera.

Speaking of backups, you should really have backups for everything you need. That means more than one lens with more than just a little over-lap in the focal lengths. Flash - do you have two. Batteries, both for the flash and for the cameras - you need backups. Memory - I always bring at least twice what I think I will need for the day and I never re-use a memory card during the day (no dumping to a laptop and then reusing it!).

Why do I stress backups? For the following reasons:
A wedding is (supposed to be) a once in a lifetime event. There are no "do overs". You have to get it right at the time it happens. If your camera locks up on you, you must be able to pick up the other one and keep right on going.

There are horror stories, lots of them, about photographers having two cameras and they both get sick during the wedding. That's when you need a backup for your backup. So, if it can (and does) happen to those with two cameras, can you imagine what kind of risk you take with just one?

If you haven't experienced a camera failure, please don't think one won't happen when you can least afford it to happen. What it does mean is that you are that much closer to the time when it does happen.

Lenses - What do you have. If the wedding location is indoors, you will need fairly fast glass or lots of flash. Most officals frown on flash during the ceremony. I would strongly recommend you have f/2.8 or faster glass. A couple of fast primes will fill the bill, depending on the pace of the wedding (I've yet to see a slow one though - so be prepared).

The wedding is in April of 2009. And I plan to be practicing a lot during the rest of the year. Now as for the equipment, yes I only have 1 camera and 2 lenses. No FLASH except what is on the camera, and I have on 8 gig CF card. I am very very new to this. Exactly 2 months ago I bought the camera bc I was interested in becoming a Photographer. I had a point and shoot camera and found that I LOVE taking pictures of everything. So I have started this obsession on learning everything I can. But my point is, I have a year and couple months that I am planning on buying equipment. But for a beginner, this is what i have. Now when the time comes, I plan on having my co-worker/friend join me to the wedding with 2 DSLR cameras and much more equipment. I am wanting us to both be taking pictures so that we have double the chance to capture the special moments. And I know you are trying to help me in realizing I am not prepared, but I am coming to this forum to prepare myself for something that isn't even close to time to do. I have other "gigs" lined up for Senior pictures, another wedding in which I will be assisting another Professional Photographer, Sport events, and engagement pictures. I hope all of this helps me out.

SloYerRoll · January 10, 2008

Guess which way I sway on this topic??

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

No FLASH except what is on the camera

:bash

Your a photographer. Light is your friend. Flashes are light. If your not ending up w/ acceptable results using lighting. Learn how to use the gear so it works better for you.

I'm not saying mastering lighting is the mecca of photography. Quite the opposite for some. But these are some of the best & most cost effective tools of your soon to be trade. Your doing yourself a dis-service by not learning them. I guarantee there will be situations where lighting will provide better results than ambient. Even using lighting in the middle of a sunny day provides better results. (actually that time of day is more critical to use lighting than others)

I respectfully disagree w/ Shay's opinion on photography in regards to lighting. But Shay and I are very different ppl as well. I don't use light to solve problems. I use light to create what I visualize. It's not as simple as just tossing some lights up and getting "good enough" work. But once you learn it, the rewards are great.

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

I pretty much have learned to use my Olympus without the flash by adjusting the ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperature. But I just wanted some opinions on if flash is good or bad. Some pictures I have taken were with both flash on and off. And I liked the ones without flash. But from everyone else's point of view, I was asking. I am just a beginner hoping to become a great photographer.

jfriend · January 10, 2008

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

I pretty much have learned to use my Olympus without the flash by adjusting the ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperature. But I just wanted some opinions on if flash is good or bad. Some pictures I have taken were with both flash on and off. And I liked the ones without flash. But from everyone else's point of view, I was asking. I am just a beginner hoping to become a great photographer.

I have definitely been in lighting situations where the natural light shots were dull color, low contrast with poorly placed shadows and adding flash made a 200% difference when done well. It added vibrancy to the colors, nice contrast, put me in control of the shadows, etc... So, it's definitely situation-dependent, not something youcan get a single answer for.

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

jfriend wrote:

I have definitely been in lighting situations where the natural light shots were dull color, low contrast with poorly placed shadows and adding flash made a 200% difference when done well. It added vibrancy to the colors, nice contrast, put me in control of the shadows, etc... So, it's definitely situation-dependent, not something youcan get a single answer for.

I agree... just won't be able to get one answer.

pathfinder · January 10, 2008

One of the secrets to great images is great lighting. Whether that light is "available" natural light or added professionally via flash, reflectors, scrims, tungsten continuous lights, matters not at all in the final image. All that matters is how the lighting looks. Good flash is really not noticed by most viewers, or even by some professional shooters.

If you are going to shoot a major event, you will need to know how to use flash skillfully and accurately as well as artistically. Now.... you might get lucky and always have great lighting for your wedding, but if you are, I'll bet you are far, far more lucky than you can imagine. Wedding shooters bring flash because they know from vast experience, they're gonna need it.

Now I'm not talking about "deer in the headlight, stark black shadows behind the bride" flash, but better color, less noise, sharper more detailed images, that look "natural' to the eye.

A real pro does not approach problems with a single technique, but knows many different techniques, so they do not have to belong to the "available light only " school or the "flash school," but can use both methods with finesse and facility. Which individual would you rather have doing your wedding?

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

A real pro does not approach problems with a single technique, but knows many different techniques, so they do not have to belong to the "available light only " school or the "flash school," but can use both methods with finesse and facility. Which individual would you rather have doing your wedding?

That was the answer I was looking!

, I like the way you put it. Thanks! I am doing as much as I can to learn without literally going to school. I am usually at work learning. (A secretary/Dental Assistant) That is the only chance I get to read. So thank you

pathfinder · January 10, 2008

Katie,

If you are seriously interested in the use of flash, there are a number of very informative links here at the top of the Technique forum regarding the EOS flash system. I do not have similar information for the Olympus system but many of the concepts will carry over, I supect. I know the Olympus system has always had TTL flash control when I used to shoot an OM-1 and an OM-2.

I would also recommend you become familiar with the Strobist site for all the good information about the use of manual flash - there are many more than just one way to use small battery powered strobes, and you may find you want to know several of the different modes.

I use EOS, studio, and manual strobes for different tasks and different reasons.

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 10, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Katie,

If you are seriously interested in the use of flash, there are a number of very informative links here at the top of the Technique forum regarding the EOS flash system. I do not have similar information for the Olympus system but many of the concepts will carry over, I supect. I know the Olympus system has always had TTL flash control when I used to shoot an OM-1 and an OM-2.

I would also recommend you become familiar with the Strobist site for all the good information about the use of manual flash - there are many more than just one way to use small battery powered strobes, and you may find you want to know several of the different modes.

I use EOS, studio, and manual strobes for different tasks and different reasons.

Ok, I will deffinently start reading! Thank you so MUCH!

Scott_Quier · January 11, 2008

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

The wedding is in April of 2009. And I plan to be practicing a lot during the rest of the year. Now as for the equipment, yes I only have 1 camera and 2 lenses. No FLASH except what is on the camera, and I have on 8 gig CF card. I am very very new to this. Exactly 2 months ago I bought the camera bc I was interested in becoming a Photographer. I had a point and shoot camera and found that I LOVE taking pictures of everything. So I have started this obsession on learning everything I can. But my point is, I have a year and couple months that I am planning on buying equipment. But for a beginner, this is what i have. Now when the time comes, I plan on having my co-worker/friend join me to the wedding with 2 DSLR cameras and much more equipment. I am wanting us to both be taking pictures so that we have double the chance to capture the special moments. And I know you are trying to help me in realizing I am not prepared, but I am coming to this forum to prepare myself for something that isn't even close to time to do. I have other "gigs" lined up for Senior pictures, another wedding in which I will be assisting another Professional Photographer, Sport events, and engagement pictures. I hope all of this helps me out.

Cool - IMO, you have come to the right place to get practical advice. This place is filled with peoople who only want your success (I'm one of them, believe it or not

) and it look like you have a plan for getting some of the experience you need.

Does your friend have any experience photographing weddings? If so great. If not, I would like to offer up a thought - you will gain a lot of very practical experience if you can find a photographer that will let you "ride along" on a wedding or two. See how he/she does it and season what you learn to taste. If you can't find photographer willing to help you out this way, there are worse things to do than to attend a wedding or two, just sitting in the back and observing what the photographer is doing.

I like PF's answer about not approaching every lighting problem with a single technique. That's what I was trying to convey in my answer as well.

Finally, this is the right place to come with questions when it comes time to buy additional equipment. Lots of people who know what they are talking about.

jeffreaux2 · January 11, 2008

I too am new to wedding photography. Last year I had the good fortune to do three weddings. Oddly enough, the one I chose to use flash during the ceremony was a daytime outdoors wedding. I have managed to limit the indoor ceremonies to natural light so far, but that may not always be the case. I have used flash at all of the receptions, but have also been able to capture some natural light photos at the receptions.

I think you have already gotten some very good advise on the matter. The one thing I would add is this:

AS soon as the bride has decided on a location and time of day for the wedding and reception, you should make an attempt to visit those locations at that same time of day and check the lighting out. Bring someone along to wear a shirt the approximate color of the wedding dress(white?) and find out exactly what you have to work with as far as window light and electrcal lighting. A few test shots will tell you if you will be able to achieve proper exposure at reasonable shutter speeds.

As far as opinions go....for what that is worth... I still believe that natural light produces some of the most dramatic photos I have taken, but if there is not enough of it to work with.......

KTBoom2006-E510 · January 11, 2008

I think you have already gotten some very good advise on the matter. The one thing I would add is this:

AS soon as the bride has decided on a location and time of day for the wedding and reception, you should make an attempt to visit those locations at that same time of day and check the lighting out. Bring someone along to wear a shirt the approximate color of the wedding dress(white?) and find out exactly what you have to work with as far as window light and electrcal lighting. A few test shots will tell you if you will be able to achieve proper exposure at reasonable shutter speeds.

Well I am with ya there. I do plan on going to the location, but didn't think about going around the time the wedding would be. That is a really good idea

Scott_Quier · January 11, 2008

KTBoom2006-E510 wrote:

Well I am with ya there. I do plan on going to the location, but didn't think about going around the time the wedding would be. That is a really good idea

With the time available to you between now and the wedding, there exists a real possibility that you may have to time your visit to match the time of year as well. If the wedding is going to be noon, plus or minus a couple of hours, this won't matter much. But, if it's later in the afternoon, an indoor location may well be much dimmer in April than in, say, August.

Failing that, estimate the angle of the sun at the time of wedding in Apr and adjust your visit time accordingly.

Just a thought.

Flash or no Flash

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