5D - 5DMkII - 40D
Hey guys,
I'm looking for information about the Canon 5D.
I have a bunch of reasons that make deciding on my next body, well, tough.
Budget: Top end $3,500.00
How will the 5D work as a sports camera?
I know it has a little more shutter lag than even the 30D. Has anyone compared the two? The noise level from high ISO of the 5D is good from what I hear. The 5D also has a slower sync speed (1/200), as opposed to 1/250. I think I can live with that. I normally use strobes at events and have them 2 stops over ambient anyway, so ghosting isn't an issue here. (I hope)
If your smart, you'll stop here and hopefully just answer the question above.
If your a glutton for punishment, go ahead and read what's below this line.
____________________________________________________________
I'm down to one body again, an aging 30D, and I need to get another body, and really want to update the 30D. I'm kinda stuck in my decision right now.
I make my living shooting sports. That said, I'm about to branch out to portraits, business head-shots, and Oh My Gosh, maybe even a couple more weddings <yikes>
NOTE: Even though I'm a sports photographer, I rarely use burst mode, so that's not a consideration in my decision.
I just love the images that are produced with the 5D. I'm not really in need of FF, but it won't hurt either.(I don't think :dunno ) I have no idea if the 5D would be workable if pressed into action for sports.
Current Average Price: $2,100.00 - $2,200.00
The fictitious 5DMkII: I realize no one knows if, what, when, or how... but, if they do upgrade the 5D to be similar to the 40D but just FF, well that might just be one awesome camera.
Price: ??? The guessing is around $3,500.00
40D: A fine camera for sure.
Price: $1,150.00
1DMkIII: What a camera (if you get a good one)
Price: $4,400.00
Now, as stated, all I've got left is an aging 30D. I'll use this as backup, or if I go FF, might need to use it for the reach. But, it's getting long in the tooth and I'll be replacing it before too long, so that's definitely weighing in on my decision.
Scenario 1:
Keep 30D and get a 40D ---> That would work, but I'm not really gaining that much between these two, (no offense to new 40D owners - I could be all wet here), and I still need to replace my aging 30D. If I went this route I would miss the good pricing on the 5D.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $1,150.00
Scenario 2:
Keep the 30D and get a 5D ---> I could use the 30D for sports & the 5D for portraits. But, what if the 30D goes down? How will the 5D work for sports?
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $2,200.00
Scenario 3:
Get a 40D & 5D ---> This sounds good, but again with the 5D and sports question.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $3,350.00
Scenario 4:
Keep the 30D & wait for the fictitious 5DMkII. Not sure this will work, who knows when or if this will ever happen, but, the pricing of the 5D IS dropping like a rock, so somethings up.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $3,500.00 ???
Scenario 5: --> Over Budget even before 30D upgrade.
Keep the 30D & get a 1DMkII. This will work for sports, but what about the portrait stuff? And, I'll still need to upgrade my aging 30D before long.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $4,400.00
Enough already!!!
Guess I'm leaning toward getting a 5D now, while the price is so low, and upgrading the 30D later to probably a 40D.
Whatcha think?
NOTE: How can I do a search on dgrin for "5D" or any variant. It won't give results, stating that the search words are too generic.
I'm looking for information about the Canon 5D.
I have a bunch of reasons that make deciding on my next body, well, tough.
Budget: Top end $3,500.00
How will the 5D work as a sports camera?
I know it has a little more shutter lag than even the 30D. Has anyone compared the two? The noise level from high ISO of the 5D is good from what I hear. The 5D also has a slower sync speed (1/200), as opposed to 1/250. I think I can live with that. I normally use strobes at events and have them 2 stops over ambient anyway, so ghosting isn't an issue here. (I hope)
If your smart, you'll stop here and hopefully just answer the question above.
If your a glutton for punishment, go ahead and read what's below this line.
____________________________________________________________
I'm down to one body again, an aging 30D, and I need to get another body, and really want to update the 30D. I'm kinda stuck in my decision right now.
I make my living shooting sports. That said, I'm about to branch out to portraits, business head-shots, and Oh My Gosh, maybe even a couple more weddings <yikes>
NOTE: Even though I'm a sports photographer, I rarely use burst mode, so that's not a consideration in my decision.
I just love the images that are produced with the 5D. I'm not really in need of FF, but it won't hurt either.(I don't think :dunno ) I have no idea if the 5D would be workable if pressed into action for sports.
Current Average Price: $2,100.00 - $2,200.00
The fictitious 5DMkII: I realize no one knows if, what, when, or how... but, if they do upgrade the 5D to be similar to the 40D but just FF, well that might just be one awesome camera.
Price: ??? The guessing is around $3,500.00
40D: A fine camera for sure.
Price: $1,150.00
1DMkIII: What a camera (if you get a good one)
Price: $4,400.00
Now, as stated, all I've got left is an aging 30D. I'll use this as backup, or if I go FF, might need to use it for the reach. But, it's getting long in the tooth and I'll be replacing it before too long, so that's definitely weighing in on my decision.
Scenario 1:
Keep 30D and get a 40D ---> That would work, but I'm not really gaining that much between these two, (no offense to new 40D owners - I could be all wet here), and I still need to replace my aging 30D. If I went this route I would miss the good pricing on the 5D.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $1,150.00
Scenario 2:
Keep the 30D and get a 5D ---> I could use the 30D for sports & the 5D for portraits. But, what if the 30D goes down? How will the 5D work for sports?
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $2,200.00
Scenario 3:
Get a 40D & 5D ---> This sounds good, but again with the 5D and sports question.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $3,350.00
Scenario 4:
Keep the 30D & wait for the fictitious 5DMkII. Not sure this will work, who knows when or if this will ever happen, but, the pricing of the 5D IS dropping like a rock, so somethings up.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $3,500.00 ???
Scenario 5: --> Over Budget even before 30D upgrade.
Keep the 30D & get a 1DMkII. This will work for sports, but what about the portrait stuff? And, I'll still need to upgrade my aging 30D before long.
Cost for two cameras in the stable again, short term: $4,400.00
Enough already!!!
Guess I'm leaning toward getting a 5D now, while the price is so low, and upgrading the 30D later to probably a 40D.
Whatcha think?
NOTE: How can I do a search on dgrin for "5D" or any variant. It won't give results, stating that the search words are too generic.
Randy
0
Comments
I'm only going to answer the last question, I'm afraid I can't really help you with the others. Do a search in plain old Google using the following:
5D site:www.dgrin.com
Just put the whole thing in exactly like that.
You'll get something like about 4,230 results from www.dgrin.com for 5D.
The generic version is: SEARCH TERM GOES HERE site:www.dgrin.com
The underscore under the www.dgrin.com isn't necessary but the forum software keeps putting it there, you don't need it for the Google search. Good luck!
I suggest that the Canon 5D is not designed for, and I doubt that the next model in that line will be designed for, sports.
Even though you may not use the high frame rate of the 1D MKII/MKIIN/MKIII, it is the "responsiveness" that would win you over. It's like you think you see a shot coming, you half-press the shutter, you recognize the shot and follow though with the shutter button and "bam" it's there. No muss, no fuss, no waiting or trying to "lead" the subject or trying to predict when you need to jam the shutter button. It's like Canon designed the camera for this purpose (and they did.) The autofocus on these cameras is as refined as it gets in the industry, with the 1D MKIIN producing the consistently best results of the batch (unless you get one of the "good" 1D MKIII bodies, or get it upgraded, or whatever many high-end sports shooters are doing to get pretty spectacular results.)
Next up is the 40D. While I've only had the camera a short while, I am very impressed at the speed of acquisition for autofocus. Even in low-light, it does a fine job. Accuracy, especially for moving subjects, is very good, but not quite as good as the 1D MKxx series. If you like the 30D I think you would like the 40D a bit more. Image quality overall is very good, especially if you have the high-ISO noise reduction turned on. JPGs are very noise free to ISO 1600, and the noise is acceptable for many purposes to ISO 3200. I have not tried "pushing" ISO 3200 in RAW (to simulate ISO 6400 sensitivity), but it's on my list of things to try. The 40D really does feel like a "mini" 1D, and that is very reassuring.
I intend to use the 40D for weddings, but I haven't had the chance yet. So far my tests indicate that I should not have any problems and I expect good results. I also have the Canon 1D MKII and that has proved to be very nice for weddings (I love it). Again, it's the responsiveness.
I'm not sure if this diatribe is helping or not, but those are kind of "gut" feelings based on my experiences and I think they can translate pretty well to another shooter.
So the 1D MKIIN would be my first recommendation, based on what i perceive are your needs (but that will also affect your lens selection.) The 1D MKIII would be a close second or maybe first if you could guarantee a good one. The 1D MKII is still a great camera in its own right and I would not discount the value of a gently used copy.
The 40D is next, and I have to repeat that so far it feels great. Since I haven't shot sports or a wedding with it yet, I would have to speculate that it would compare to be a bit better overall than the 30D you have. You lenses could stay the same and work just the same as always. This choice really makes a lot of sense to me, and if the 5DN/6D or whatever looks suitable it would cost relatively little to liquidate one of the crop cameras to switch.
The 5D is just not going to give a satisfactory sports solution IMO, so I suggest one of the other cameras as a much better choice, since sports is a major selection criteria.
A "lot" of people are using the 5D for studio work and portraiture so if you decide to shift your emphasis that direction it becomes a contender. It would probably affect your lens choice the most as well.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I got a 300D for years and thinking of upgrade to 30D but considering the crop factors and pixal numbers, I waited and moved to 5D as I don't really do sport photo, film rate is not my priority.
Started to have some interest on sport photo recently and considering to change the 300D to 40D so I have 2 bodies to cover every situation. I like to carry both for most of the jobs. 5D with 17 -40 or 24 -105 for portrait, landscape, wide-angle shoots, the 300D/(future 40D) with 70-200 IS F2.8 for tele (standby a 2X ET). May put the 70-200 IS to the 5D for serious portrait. The 40D should be able to give a faster film rate in future.
I borrowed my friends 2-days old 1D Mark III, it is really great, fast, sharp, low noise, high film rate, full of control. But it just a bit too heavy and bulky (also very pricy). Considering to carry 2 bodies and other 3 -4 lens with flash gun, tripods. The MarkIII is not my choice.
To answer your question, I suggest to get a 5D and keep the 30D for a while (may upgrade to future ??50D)
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
I guess I should have included that I had a 1DMkII that I recently got rid of, (it had issues - the buyer knew this also) so I'm aware of it's merits. I shot some BB with a 40D two nights ago, so I got to see that camera in use some.
I'll agree completely on the shutter "lack of" lag on that body. That was nice. That's the single most important issue I'm concerned about on the 5D.
I'm pretty sure I'll wind up with a 40D in the not so distant future, but I'd also like a 5D or upgraded variant of such.
I'm just trying to find out if anyone has used a 5D for sports, and if so what were there impressions. I have to have a backup camera, I can't be down if one camera goes out. So, if the 30D goes down, and the 5D won't cut the sports mustard... That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Guess I'll have to rent one to find out. I was hoping someone here had tried a 5D for sports & I could get their impressions about it.
Again, thank you for taking the time to post such an in-depth response.
Photoskipper,
How does the 5D with it's slower shutter (lag) work for sports? Do you find it noticeable. (Sorry, I've never shot a 300D, so I'm not familiar with the shutter on that body.)
Thanks for your input...
PMA is only 13 days away...better hope Canon doesn't wait until Photokina to make any announcments. That isn't until Sept! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/lol3.gif" border="0" alt="" >
OK. Seriously now. I have the 5D and have used it for sports. Here are some kids soccer shots with a 5D & 70/200 f/2.8. Samples:
and
So it is possible. Ironically I am looking at the 40D becasue I do want the fps and the extra reach a crop sensor gives. (I'm also looking at a 400mm lens - different conversation).
I vote for Scenarios 4, 3 & 5 in that order. But only because you have a budget limitation. Otherwise go for 5. And if Canon announce something at or before PMA, there will be enough time to get the 5D MkI with even a lower price. In that case, Scenario 3 is my first choice.
I actually got the 5D 2 years ago to replace my 300D because I missed the FF. And the price finally dipped under $3K ($2990). The 30D had just come out, and was a better version of my Digi Reb, but didn't give me the Wide Angle I wanted. If (when) I get the 40D it will be for a) additional reach with a telephoto w/o buying a slower lens b) higher fps of 6.5 vs 3 for 5D.
But I won't be giving up my 5D anytime soon. I do like the way the images look. But you can get all those other thing with the 40D and the right lenses. Just not the wide angle.
Hope that helps. Ask more questions - I'm sure I'll have an opinion, if not an actual answer! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/deal.gif" border="0" alt="" >
-Fleetwood Mac
And that separate conversation includes ME waiting until after PMA to see if Canon releases (not announces) any new telephoto lenses.
Or maybe a big drop in the price of the 400 DO. Closest Smilie :thwak to a 'Slap me. I'm Dreaming' one.
-Fleetwood Mac
1. It's a good sports camera (6.5fps, improved AF)
2. There is no reason why it can't be used as a studio camera (14bit, highlight priority, better viewfinder, wireless battery grip available)
3. Less than half the cost of a 5D which leaves you room for buying glas (the 5D successor is expected to be priced like the 5D btw.)
4. More reach with telephoto lenses.
The only reason speaking for the 5D imo:
1. Larger viewfinder
2. More pixels
Really good wide angle lenses are also available for the 40D
(Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Canon 10-22/3.5-4.5 EFS) so the 5D
doesn't really have an advantage in wide angle coverage.
just my 2 cents.
― Edward Weston
Im in the same predicament and with the current rebates here in Canada the 5D is only 500CDN more than the 40D.
My main stumbling block is that I hear the 5D off center focusing is not the greatest, I really dont want to drop a lot of cash on a camera with wonky focus :cry
Coming from a SLR, i'd really like to keep a full frame especially as Im interested in landscapes and architecture.
I shoot with a 5D routinely and with a 40D.
I think there is no comparison between the speed of focus acquisition of these two cameras. The 40D is much faster in this regard - not numbers measured here, just my gut response. I love the 5d and use it for the majority of my shooting - I like the wider view I get with the 24-105.
But for wildlife, I will use the 40D in February. Faster, and "longer " view. Great images too.
I sold my 1DMkll in preparation for a acquiring a 1DMKlll, but have held off on that purchase so far, as the 40D is definitely faster and more accurate than the 20D was focusing. I have not used a 30D so cannot comment on it compared to the 40D, but I think it was very similar to the 20D.
The 5D is limited to single frame shooting for sports, the 3 fps motor drive rate seems glacial, as you know. The 40D rate is over twice as fast and will be useful.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Thanks so much for your input
Sounds like you fellas helped me solidify the way I was already leaning.
Upgrade the stable with a 40D & 5D. I think this will serve me well.
In all honesty, I'd like to ignore the 5D, but, I keep seeing picture after picture that has that "intangible" wow look to them, and yep, shot with a 5D.
Now, just to decide which one to pick-up first
Thanks again...
That part is easy, get the 40D first. By the time you've settled into that one the 5D replacement may be out.
The 40D is up to the image quality of the 5D, see this comparison:
http://www.wyofoto.com/40D_Image%20quality/40D_shootout.html
It seems ill motivated to buy one camera over another because it seems
to have a better wow factor in image quality. People who buy a 5D
over a APS-C camera are often more serious about photography and
probably the better (equiped) post processors. Once I started retouching
images in a color calibration workflow the wow factor increased by some
magnitude .. and I still shoot with an old 10D.
― Edward Weston
Excellent points here.
I do not choose one camera over another on the basis of "better", but better for what specific purpose. I edit my files the same way - whether from a point and shoot G9 or a 40 or a 5D.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I think that test slightly misses the point of what makes a full frame sensor special. The advantage of the 5D is that it has a ~50% lower pixel pitch than a 40D. What that means is that the 40D requires a 50% sharper lens to get the same image sharpness as a 5D. If you test with a sharp prime stopped down to f/8, you won't see the difference. However if you test with your lenses at the wide end of the aperture range where the lenses are softer, you will see a difference. The uniqe propery I see in 5D images is its remarkable ability for selective focus. When compared to a 40D, you'll find the focus differential is significaly greater with 5D both because the of the shallower depth of field and because the focal plane is sharper.
If you have what I call a "medium format aesthetic" in your photography, the 5D is the one of the best tools on the market (short of a D3 or a 1DsIII) and I agree that people who are so inclined are drawn to the 5D because it is the most affordable tool for people who would shoot with a Hasselblad if they were shooting film. As such, while I believe there are technical advantages of the 5D over the 40D for certain kinds of photograpy, the difference in images created by each body reflect more the kind of photographers drawn to each body than the actual differences in the platforms.
However, the 5D is not a great sports camera. In particular, the AF system leaves a lot to be desired. I use mine exclusively in single shot center point focus and that works great. However the outer focus points are not terribly accurate and fail me regularly in shallow depth of field situations and I dion't believe AI servo has ever given me a sharp image. That said, I have not pushed on it either; I don't shoot rapidly moving subjects very often and when I do I tend to prefocus rather than attemping to focus track.
Manfr3d,
Thanks for that link, interesting.
I believe a lot of good photographers buy cameras due to the "look" of the images it produces. You don't think all those photographers buy those bulky, expensive medium format cameras for no good reason, do you? Or 1DsMkIII, etc...
An interesting excerpt from the very article you posted:
"This subtle richness gives the 5D images the 3D effect people often talk about." --- This could equate to my term "wow".
Thanks again for your time to respond and to post that good link
I had forgotten that you have a 5D. But since you do, I would expect nothing less than a detailed technical explanation to my question
I don't want a 5D for a sports camera, but I shoot sports professionally and since I'm getting into portraits and the like, I think the 5D would work well for that.
My concern about the 5D and sports is IF my other "sports" body takes a dump, will the 5D handle things until I can get the sports body repaired. That's all...
I think you've answered that. Thank you.
Just wondering as im looking at doing that myself when im up for a new body next time.
Gus,
I just recently got rid of a 1DMkII. This particular one had issues even after sending it in to Canon Service. (focus button - the buyer was fully aware of all this)
This may sound lame, but I'm holding a camera usually with a 70-200 f/2.8 for hours on end, and the 1Dxx series is a heavy, heavy body. (also budget issues)
Also, I believe the new 40D is actually an upgrade image wise and also features, to the 1DMkII, although it's no where near as durable.
I'm getting into portraits, business head-shots, etc. and I am using my left hand for holding off camera lighting, etc. quite a bit. I've shot head-shots/senior portraits with the 1DMkII and it was NOT a pleasure.
Also, I like the way 5D images look. They have some quality I can't quite put my finger on, kind of like film. Smooth, rich, flavorful!
Right now I've got a fairly tight budget due to purchasing a lot of other equipment, and, I need to update my cameras. Two to be exact.
If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably get a 1DMkIIn for sports (still spooked about the 1DMkIII) and whatever the upgrade to the 5D will be.
I shot a Pro Level sports event with me shooting the 1DMkII, another associate photog shooting the same, and the third shooting the 1DMkIIn. We processed over 6k pictures from that 4 day event. It was very easy to tell which pictures were taken with the 1DMkIIn. They had that "something" special look to them. I can also usually tell from looking at pics on the web which ones were shot with a 1DMkIIn, they have a special look, much like the 5D has a special, but different look. Dgrin pics, I go and look at the EXIF to verify if I'm all wet or not. (please no test here, this IS just my personal opinion
I understand there are many here who don't like the terms "wow", "something special" and the like, but to me it's unmistakable when you see it in images.
Alas, you will no doubt LOVE a 1DMkII. I've just BTDT
Hope that helps...
Sounds like you cannot be cured
Buy a 5D and be happy with it
― Edward Weston
As I mentioned before, I am not a really sport photography and just started some interest in that area. I enjoy travel photography more.
I totally agree with you and some other bloggers that 40D is better choice for sports due to the frame rate and short lag. That is the reason I am considering to get one for sports (if I get more serious about it) or for the replacement of the old 300D (Rebel).
I like the 5D as it has bigger sensor and higher pixal. For some action shooting such as football, swimming, motor racing, I took a wider angle so that I can see the object coming in thru the view finder and predict the action then time it right to press the shutter. So far I am quite happy with some of the shoots. I work on the PS to crop the right composition but yet maintain sufficient resolution for print.
3 fps is definitely an issue for serious sports photo. But if you ever used the old film motor drive, you will appreciate the 3 fps. Sorry that I am old and suffered from those days sydrome.
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/