Latest girls hoops

bikingbets

I've been shooting and shooting and shooting since my last post. I've been adding PP in Lightroom and Picasa to get these:

1.

2.


3.



Still a little soft, as I'm trying to get a better eye for sharpening in Picasa.
Thanks for looking!

Betsy

johng

You're making strides!
In truth if the gym is that dark you really need to either use flash or get a fast prime. 1/250 at ISO 3200 is going to be tough to get a lot of good action shots.

Shot 1: plain old OOF - not an issue with not sharpening properly. Given the exif of 115mm I'd say this is a healthy crop and too much of one. If you're using the 70-200 2.8 you simply need to zoom in tighter. Get past the fear of being too tight. Shooting tight is the only way to get sharp images at such low light levels.

shot 2: sharpness is reasonable but the colors are VERY muted here. This shot was a full stop less exposure than the first. How much did you have to correct the exposure in PP? The colors look like you did do some adjustments.

shot 3: Pretty good except for the motion blur - 1/200 is too slow.

You've got 3 different shots in the same lighting and 3 different exposures. I would strongly suggest next time out you shoot with a manual exposure. Figure out the proper exposure for faces during warmups. Then set the camera to manual exposure and dial in those settings. I'm guessing that's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of ISO 3200, f2.8 and 1/400. 3200 and 1/400 will yeild much better action shots than 1600 and 1/200 will. And the 70-200 2.8 is plenty sharp enough at 2.8 no need to stop it down.

Also - you should really set a custom WB. That will help greatly with your colors and eliminating the color cast.

Good luck and keep up the practice!!

j-bo

A lot better than before. Colors are off (mostly too yellow), as you stated, "soft", but it's more of blurry due to low s/s. JohnG has great advice.

Picasa won't do much for sharpening. Try noise ninja which is a great tool which helps with the high ISO too.

Keep 'em coming!

bikingbets

johng and j-bo:

Thanks for taking the time to comment.
I'll take the ISO back up to 3200 and pp with noise ninja, also set custom wb from now on. Only 3 weeks to go for bball season...hope to get close by then!

Thanks again,
Betsy

bikingbets

Trying the 50mm f/1.4
Okay...new tactic...last night I used the 50mm f/1.4. I set a custom white balance and stood on the corner. John, I think I'm right in agreeing that the faster prime is the way to go in this &*(%$ gym. This way I could shoot manual and get 1/640 at f/1.8, ISO 1000. Looks like they could stand a little sharpening, but this lens seems to make better images without PP. What do you think?
I ordered a book so I can get more out of Lightroom than I have been with experimentation...

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2.


3.

PineapplePhoto

Good action, but if I were you I got stay around 1/400 - 1/500 and close that aperture some... maybe even f2.8, that will give you a bit more sharpness.

Also, I think the pictures look a bit greenish... how did you set your custom white balance?

bikingbets

Thanks for the tips. I'll try that next time.

The white balance has been an ongoing challenge for me. I used the manual's instructions: Took a picture of a white piece of paper and selected that as the custom white balance source. When I use AWB in this gym things look yellowish, so the greenish look is a nice change.

bikingbets

Here's what I get with a quick wb adjustment in Picasa.

johng

A couple tips on custom WB:

1. Set shutter speed to 1/60 when you take the shot of the white object. This will use an average temperature value (since the light will actually cycle vs. taking a shot at 1/500)

2. Most of your shots are going to be around the basket so step out on the floor and stand in that area when you take the shot because that's the light your subject will be under.

3. Make sure the paper is tilted a bit so it catches some light (i.e. not perpendicular to the floor)

4. There are different shades of white. I've never done an actual test setting WB with different pieces of white things (coffee filter vs. envelope vs different paper) but there are definitely differences. And I'm inclined to believe it can make a difference. For me, after spending thousands on camera gear it was worthwhile investing $8 in a white card from B&H.
Also one other note: any type of levels, curves, shadow/highlight adjustment can also have a negative affect on colors. Another reason to have exposure correct in-camera. Don't know if you did any of those types of adjustment but it can absolutely affect your colors when you do.

PineapplePhoto

What do you think of shooting at a white card vs an 18% gray card, to set the white balance? which you prefer?

johng wrote:

A couple tips on custom WB:

1. Set shutter speed to 1/60 when you take the shot of the white object. This will use an average temperature value (since the light will actually cycle vs. taking a shot at 1/500)

2. Most of your shots are going to be around the basket so step out on the floor and stand in that area when you take the shot because that's the light your subject will be under.

3. Make sure the paper is tilted a bit so it catches some light (i.e. not perpendicular to the floor)

4. There are different shades of white. I've never done an actual test setting WB with different pieces of white things (coffee filter vs. envelope vs different paper) but there are definitely differences. And I'm inclined to believe it can make a difference. For me, after spending thousands on camera gear it was worthwhile investing $8 in a white card from B&H.
Also one other note: any type of levels, curves, shadow/highlight adjustment can also have a negative affect on colors. Another reason to have exposure correct in-camera. Don't know if you did any of those types of adjustment but it can absolutely affect your colors when you do.

johng

PineapplePhoto wrote:

What do you think of shooting at a white card vs an 18% gray card, to set the white balance? which you prefer?

Officially, a gray card is meant to determine exposure, not white balance. So it's not a perfect fit. Having said that, I used one for a couple years until this year. This year I got the white card but I also went from a 20d to a 1dmkIII. I'm getting better shots WB wise but there are 2 variables at play - new camera and new method for setting WB. So I can't' honestly tell you which factor contributed to the better WB results - probably they both did.

Also several years ago I couldn't find an inexpensive white card - they were ludicrously expensive for some insane reason. But when I searched at B&H several months back they had one for $8. They also had some overpriced ones. So I decided - you know what - if I can spend thousands on equipment I can spend another $8 to try to maximize my results.

bikingbets

johng:

Thanks for the always-welcome advice! You make me laugh at myself for using the back of a printed, folded piece of white paper for my white balance card!
Anyway, one more home game for the girls in that dreaded gym, and I'll use your suggestions for white balance. Tomorrow there's an away game that I might venture to, and I'm hoping for better lighting...(excuses, excuses..lol).

Betsy

Dbl

Since you are struggling with your WB and are shooting the same gym frequently can I offer a suggestion? Take a couple of shots in RAW and bring them home and open them in your RAW converter, under White Balance keep adjusting until it looks correct. I use a white point to help with that. When it is the look you want for color take note of the K temp. Now when you go to the same gym no need for a CWB just go ahead and set you K temp in the camera and you will be very close to what you want.

I am finding that setting a K temp gives me fairly consistent results. I keep a text file that is located in the folder with the pictures of all the venues I shoot in with settings, ISO, shutter speed, K temp, etc. I also keep a file in my palm pilot so the next time I shoot there I just use those settings and I am off and running. Just another way to get closer to what you want for results.

bikingbets

Hi Dan:

Thanks for the take on wb that I hadn't thought of. Going back through my latest images, I found that they looked best (to my white balance-challenged eyes) when the temperature was 3400 K. So I went through and changed them all. Here's a sample without cropping, open to c & c.



I think I'm on to something now if I can get someone to stand behind me to help me decide what looks right. It's nice knowing that if I don't get the cwb right that I can set the camera for the temperature that has worked before.

In the meantime I'm on the lookout for a good price on a white or gray card.

A question for you:
What range of kelvin temps do you find for the different gyms where you shoot? Just curious.

Thanks for the help,
Betsy

j-bo

Low priced WB Card here . Is it good? Maybe someone else uses it?

Dbl

Betsy, that shot looks MUCH better, I think you are on the right track here. Many of the gyms I shoot in are anywhere from 3100K to 3600K. I shot some games last Saturday with one gym that varied from 3100K-3400K due to light cycling. In that case I had much better results from AWB than CWB or K temp. Once you are familiar with a gym it gets easier to pick which of the three methods gives you better results. I really like the look of that shot, your whites are white, yellow and green look good as well. Good luck with the future games.

I use a WhiBal card, somewhat spendy but they give great results. You can check them out if you wish.

http://www.pictureflow.com/products/whibal/index.html

bikingbets

I went to a different gym last night, but after trying cwb the shots were coming out a little yellow again. So I tried K3300, and the results were much better.
Here's what came out of the camera with my new 85mm 1.8 set at f/2.0, 1/500, ISO 1600. Just a little brightening added.


1.


2. Sorry for the ref...I still like the shot.


3.



JohnG, PineapplePhoto, and Dan, thanks so much for the help! I've learned a whole lot this week thanks to you guys!

Now I can go on to other photographic issues...

Betsy

Dbl

Congratulations on your new lens! Good for you. These latest shots are looking good, that first shot is what a good sports shot personifies, peak action, face, and emotion. Glad you found a method to handle your color issues.

j-bo

NO MO YELLA! Good for you.

Now...next thing is to work on your PP to get some "pop" out of these. Needs contrast and maybe a bit of saturation.

#2 and #3 are slightly OOF.

bikingbets

j-bo:

Thanks for the suggestions for getting some pop into the photos.
I'll start some work in LightRoom on contrast and saturation.

This newbie is really getting addicted to sports-shooting!
I LOVE DGRIN!

Betsy