Computer Confusion

Dogdots · January 22, 2008

My computer is going--it can't handle CS3 to its full potential. So I'm computer shopping and soooo confused.

Anyone have any ideas as to best computer for the job? I don't want to put a lot of money into the machine. I will be using it for photo editing, internet, a few games----just puzzles type games.

I have looked at the Quad Core, but which kind is better....Gateway, Dell, HP. I've looked at the Pentium Dual Core, AMD Phenom Quad Core, Intel Core 2 Duo...I'm so confused :scratch I can order over the internet or Best Buy. I have thought of a Mac, but that is out of the picture. I don't want to change software, etc. I also have a little problem with all the crap that comes loaded on a computer when you buy it. I've noticed with my sons Dell its so full of junk.

If anyone has any idea on the amount of space I need that would be a good starting point. I'm currently looking at the 3GB DDR2 Memory and 500GB Hard Drive. I have read that the DDR3 is coming out this year...should I wait for that?

To be honest with you...I don't really trust the salesman/woman. I'd rather have input from people who have the machines and know how they work, etc. with CS3.

Thanks

dadwtwins · January 23, 2008

The computer you are looking at is well in lines with running PS3.

you will receive a ton of respones on which computer is better depending on biased opinions. It is like asking the forum which is better, NIKON or CANON. There is no real answer to the question, just personal prefreneces.

Photoshop is a RAM hog as well as a HD hog. Since Ram is so cheap, go with as much as your computer can handle. Buy a external HD or partition your internal drive to act as a "scratch disk". Follow this link to explain what and why you need a scratch disk-->
http://www.designtalkboard.com/tips/photoshop/scratchdisks.php

The computer you listed is more than enough. The important thing while running photoshop is to close all of your open programs that use up valuable memory.

Learn how to run msconfig on your computer to turn off those useless programs running in the background that just suck the life out of your computer speed.

Download procexp --> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

this little dandy of a program will help you see and close running programs that you do not want or need running while working in photoshop or for that matter any memory hog program like games. This program will also allow you to see virus's or some spyware running on your computer.

good luck and have fun with your new toy:D

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

dadwtwins wrote:

The computer you are looking at is well in lines with running PS3.

you will receive a ton of respones on which computer is better depending on biased opinions. It is like asking the forum which is better, NIKON or CANON. There is no real answer to the question, just personal prefreneces.

Photoshop is a RAM hog as well as a HD hog. Since Ram is so cheap, go with as much as your computer can handle. Buy a external HD or partition your internal drive to act as a "scratch disk". Follow this link to explain what and why you need a scratch disk-->
http://www.designtalkboard.com/tips/photoshop/scratchdisks.php

The computer you listed is more than enough. The important thing while running photoshop is to close all of your open programs that use up valuable memory.

Learn how to run msconfig on your computer to turn off those useless programs running in the background that just suck the life out of your computer speed.

Download procexp --> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

this little dandy of a program will help you see and close running programs that you do not want or need running while working in photoshop or for that matter any memory hog program like games. This program will also allow you to see virus's or some spyware running on your computer.

good luck and have fun with your new toy:D

Thank you for the information. The links are very valuable to me. Actually learned something. As far as running msconfig....I had a computer that needed that done so many times. Even had to keep a cheat list as to what to keep and turn off. I was always afraid that I may turn off the wrong thing

That machine was really a crappy one.

I know as soon as I walk into the store I'm going to be looking at outdated machines and walking out wishing I had waited, but whats a person to do when they need a machine now

On the exteranl could I have the CS3 program? And just run if off of there? Then any editing I do I can transfer my photos, etc. onto another external or is that to much and not a good idea or not even possible?

Also can I just open and close programs on my machine when ever I want to run them or not? That is a cool idea if that is possible. Never thought about that....shows how uneducated I am in the world of computers.

The computers I'm looking at also have a tv tuner built in....how does that take up space on the machine and how would running CS3 and watching a good ol' John Wayne movie at the time work on the running of the machine?

Sorry...so many questions.

Foochar · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

My computer is going--it can't handle CS3 to its full potential. So I'm computer shopping and soooo confused.

Anyone have any ideas as to best computer for the job? I don't want to put a lot of money into the machine. I will be using it for photo editing, internet, a few games----just puzzles type games.

I have looked at the Quad Core, but which kind is better....Gateway, Dell, HP. I've looked at the Pentium Dual Core, AMD Phenom Quad Core, Intel Core 2 Duo...I'm so confused I can order over the internet or Best Buy. I have thought of a Mac, but that is out of the picture. I don't want to change software, etc. I also have a little problem with all the crap that comes loaded on a computer when you buy it. I've noticed with my sons Dell its so full of junk.

If anyone has any idea on the amount of space I need that would be a good starting point. I'm currently looking at the 3GB DDR2 Memory and 500GB Hard Drive. I have read that the DDR3 is coming out this year...should I wait for that?

To be honest with you...I don't really trust the salesman/woman. I'd rather have input from people who have the machines and know how they work, etc. with CS3.

Thanks

I work in the IT industry and just bought a new computer about a month ago, so I've been looking at many of the same things. With respect to memory I think 3 GB is the magic number, more than 3 GB is overkill in my opinion at this point. To get access to more than about 3 GB of memory you have to start looking at special windows options that sometimes break compatibility with older applications etc.

As far as the processor is concerned you listed four models of processor, Intel Core 2 Quad, Intel Pentium Dual Core, Intel Core 2 Duo, and AMD Phenom Quad Core. First off, stay away from the Pentium Dual-Core line, in my opinion they are essentially the "new Celeron" chip which in my opinion is underpowered for Photoshop. Secondly the general consensus is that at the present time the performance of the AMD chips isn't as good as the Intel Core 2 chips. Lastly, for Photoshop I think the price/performance ratio of the quad core CPUs is such that they don't make sense. In my experience you pay twice as much for a quad core CPU than you would for a similar clockspeed dual core for roughly a 15% performance increase i Photoshop according to research I've done on the net. To me the price increase for a 15% performance boost isn't worth it. This leaves us with the Core 2 Duo chips as the best choice in my opinion.

With regard to the hard drive, I think 500 GB is a reasonable size. I use the internal hard drive for programs like Photoshop etc, as well as the scratch area for photoshop. I've stored all my pictures on external hard drives, it is easier to grow the size of your external hard drive collection as your picture collection grows than to expand the internal hard drive.

dadwtwins · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

Thank you for the information. The links are very valuable to me. Actually learned something. As far as running msconfig....I had a computer that needed that done so many times. Even had to keep a cheat list as to what to keep and turn off. I was always afraid that I may turn off the wrong thing That machine was really a crappy one.

I know as soon as I walk into the store I'm going to be looking at outdated machines and walking out wishing I had waited, but whats a person to do when they need a machine now

On the exteranl could I have the CS3 program? And just run if off of there? Then any editing I do I can transfer my photos, etc. onto another external or is that to much and not a good idea or not even possible?

Also can I just open and close programs on my machine when ever I want to run them or not? That is a cool idea if that is possible. Never thought about that....shows how uneducated I am in the world of computers.

The computers I'm looking at also have a tv tuner built in....how does that take up space on the machine and how would running CS3 and watching a good ol' John Wayne movie at the time work on the running of the machine?

Sorry...so many questions.

no worries, ask away. That is what these forums are all about.

Running the TV card takes up a ton of resources and will probably work but i would not do it. When running PS3, do not run anything else otherwise you might have a lag in timing when using some of the tools in PS3. Nothing is more frustrating then trying to do a carfeul manuever with the brush tool with lag time of response. Remember, you need as much video card memory to run ps3 as well as ram memory.

Always keep ps3 in the main drive so the response time does not lag. Use an external drive for the pictures and/or the "scratch drive". I have found if you install ps3 on anything other then the default directory, you run into problems with not only third party plug ins but the program itself tends to lag a little. probably because i used an external drive rather than a SCSI built in drive.

All new computers try to out speed the previous but actually the process speed is not as important as your ram memory and video card memory. Any computer you buy now is more then enough to run ps3 for a long time.

Richard · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

I have looked at the Quad Core, but which kind is better....Gateway, Dell, HP. I've looked at the Pentium Dual Core, AMD Phenom Quad Core, Intel Core 2 Duo...I'm so confused

Core 2 Duo is the best bang for the buck these days. Quad core should only be considered if you are doing very demanding work and need all the power you can get. Unless making a living depends on it, I would forget it.

I also have a little problem with all the crap that comes loaded on a computer when you buy it. I've noticed with my sons Dell its so full of junk.

Yeah, that has become a problem, unfortunately. If you order from Dell directly, you can specify that you do not want any additional software installed on the machine, at least on some of their product lines. If your machine comes with an OS installation disk (not all of them do these days, so ask about it) you can wipe the hard drive and reinstall Windows, but then you might lose something that the vendor has supplied that you actually want, like a DVD burning program. Manufacturer user forums are common and a good place to look for information on this problem.

If anyone has any idea on the amount of space I need that would be a good starting point. I'm currently looking at the 3GB DDR2 Memory and 500GB Hard Drive.

That sounds like a fine configuration, especially if you get yourself a large external drive for backup as well. If you get a machine with an eSATA port, you should look for an external drive with eSATA as well. That way, you can also use the drive as a Photoshop swap drive and it will be as fast as a second internal drive. eSATA adds cost but boosts performance tremendously.

I have read that the DDR3 is coming out this year...should I wait for that?

I wouldn't wait. There's always something in the pipeline, but life goes on. Besides, the latest and greatest always carries a high cost until it becomes mainstream, and you said you had a limited budget.

Good luck and enjoy your new machine.

Regards,

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

I thank you both for your responses---I feel the burden of inexperiece being lifted from my shoulders as I'm trying to spend my money wisely

I want alittle left over in my 100-400L fund

Ok....tv tuner---I can let that go and just keep my old 13" on the shelf to use...at least its in color. Also to the Core 2 Duo that I was looking at doesn't have the tv tuner.

The video card that comes with this machine I'm looking at in the store is a NVIDIA GEFORCE 8300 GS......???????? To me that first word is just a bunch of letters not put together in the right sequence

Any idea on how good this is? I know I could google it, but still I probably wouldn't understand what they were talking about.

But.....the machine that leaves me with is the Dell Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6550. Now that is a machine bought at a store. I can always go to the Dell site and order something different. Change some things out. I do know that Windows Vista takes up memory and that Dell dumps alot of crap onto the computer that takes up memory...so things will need to be done with that issue.

I read the link that was provided with information on Scratch area...could one of you explain it alittle more for me on the steps etc. on this process. Sounds good....just so new to it.

Thanks a bunch!

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

rsinmadrid wrote:

Yeah, that has become a problem, unfortunately. If you order from Dell directly, you can specify that you do not want any additional software installed on the machine, at least on some of their product lines. If your machine comes with an OS installation disk (not all of them do these days, so ask about it) you can wipe the hard drive and reinstall Windows, but then you might lose something that the vendor has supplied that you actually want, like a DVD burning program. Manufacturer user forums are common and a good place to look for information on this problem.

That sounds like a fine configuration, especially if you get yourself a large external drive for backup as well. If you get a machine with an eSATA port, you should look for an external drive with eSATA as well. That way, you can also use the drive as a Photoshop swap drive and it will be as fast as a second internal drive. eSATA adds cost but boosts performance tremendously.

Regards,

Thank you for the information the eSATA port --- looking for a external drive with the same. Never thought of that. I should have tho.

You mention about talking with Dell about not putting all the junk on the puter. I tried that yesterday.....oh my, this girl I got was not the right person for selling Dell. She actually spent more time joking with her buddy next to her. I finally gave up. I do know I can call back today and get someone better. If not...just redial till I do

You did mention wiping the machine clean and reinstalling the OS -- I have read that Dell is really good on combining the OS with programs you don't want and then you can't get them back. So....I feel kinda scared about getting a clean machine from Dell or my ability to clean it up. Then maybe what I read isn't true either.

Foochar · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

Thank you for the information the eSATA port --- looking for a external drive with the same. Never thought of that. I should have tho.

You mention about talking with Dell about not putting all the junk on the puter. I tried that yesterday.....oh my, this girl I got was not the right person for selling Dell. She actually spent more time joking with her buddy next to her. I finally gave up. I do know I can call back today and get someone better. If not...just redial till I do You did mention wiping the machine clean and reinstalling the OS -- I have read that Dell is really good on combining the OS with programs you don't want and then you can't get them back. So....I feel kinda scared about getting a clean machine from Dell or my ability to clean it up. Then maybe what I read isn't true either.

I think Dell may be starting to get better with respect to the pre-installed software. The system I bought with Vista preloaded on it seems to have a minimum of extra stuff loaded on it, enough that I didn't feel the need to wipe it and reinstall from scratch...

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

Foochar wrote:

I think Dell may be starting to get better with respect to the pre-installed software. The system I bought with Vista preloaded on it seems to have a minimum of extra stuff loaded on it, enough that I didn't feel the need to wipe it and reinstall from scratch...

Travis...you bought a Dell? Is this your first Dell?

Foochar · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

Travis...you bought a Dell? Is this your first Dell?

Not my first Dell, actually I handle the computer purchasing for my company and buy and configure Dells all the time for them (probably bought over 150 Dells in 2005 and probably average 1 new computer a month from Dell in a year that we aren't doing any major equipment replacement.) I've also purchased at least one previous Dell for home use about 5 years ago. I've experienced the systems with way too much software that I just don't need loaded on them, however this most recent Dell system with Windows Vista that I purchased (actually a refurb through outlet.dell.com) seems to be much better in that category. At work, we wipe the systems and do a clean install, mainly so that we have 100% control of what is installed on the system, no bundled games etc. In the past I have done the same thing at home because of all the extra software that they bundle in, when I unboxed the new Dell last month and started it up I didn't notice enough stuff preloaded to make it worth the effort to do this, and this is from someone is 100% comfortable with doing a reload, and who isn't worried about messing up the computer in the process.

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

Foochar wrote:

Not my first Dell, actually I handle the computer purchasing for my company and buy and configure Dells all the time for them (probably bought over 150 Dells in 2005 and probably average 1 new computer a month from Dell in a year that we aren't doing any major equipment replacement.) I've also purchased at least one previous Dell for home use about 5 years ago. I've experienced the systems with way too much software that I just don't need loaded on them, however this most recent Dell system with Windows Vista that I purchased (actually a refurb through outlet.dell.com) seems to be much better in that category. At work, we wipe the systems and do a clean install, mainly so that we have 100% control of what is installed on the system, no bundled games etc. In the past I have done the same thing at home because of all the extra software that they bundle in, when I unboxed the new Dell last month and started it up I didn't notice enough stuff preloaded to make it worth the effort to do this, and this is from someone is 100% comfortable with doing a reload, and who isn't worried about messing up the computer in the process.

Wish I had your expertise on this matter. I would feel so much more comfortable with the whole issue.

I think I will have to just take the gamble and see what I get.

Did you see my post on the type of video card this computer comes with? I'd like you opinion on it if you would be so nice as to take a look at it. I did also mention the computer I'm looking at. There may be one I can purchase on site that may be alittle better then this one. Well...I'm sure there are alot better ones then this one, but maybe this one isn't the right one and the model higher is----you know what I mean I'm sure.

My day is looking brighter----thanks!

dadwtwins · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

Wish I had your expertise on this matter. I would feel so much more comfortable with the whole issue.

I think I will have to just take the gamble and see what I get.

Did you see my post on the type of video card this computer comes with? I'd like you opinion on it if you would be so nice as to take a look at it. I did also mention the computer I'm looking at. There may be one I can purchase on site that may be a little better then this one. Well...I'm sure there are alot better ones then this one, but maybe this one isn't the right one and the model higher is----you know what I mean I'm sure.

My day is looking brighter----thanks!

Lets do this, why don't you tell us what your budget is??? Then we can suggest what options you can afford. Your questions are very valid but the choices you have are immense and is hard to find out what you really need for the price you are willing to pay.

We will stick with Dell as to be consistent with choices you have. If the TV card is a must, the price will really start toclimb since you need a better graphics card then NVIDIA GS you choose

here is an example of what i would get if I had a budget between 2,000-2,500 https://ecomm2.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&itemtype=CFG&oid=fe5d8d35-70f0-4ce5-834a-ce82d9b51e0c

dadwtwins · January 23, 2008

I forgot to give another link on Scratch Disks

http://www.photoshopninja.com/2006/04/making-the-most-of-your-photoshop-scratch-disk/

Newsy · January 23, 2008

In making the decision on what CPU you should get, consider the information from this page.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=437

Note that there are various benchmark results to view so wander thru them. You should get the gist that the quads are superior for rendering/editing video but as to still images.... go for the best bang for buck and don't feel you have to buy cutting edge.

I compared the Q6600 to the E6850 because in my neck of woods they are almost the same in price with the E6850 being $10.00 more.

.

Foochar · January 23, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

Wish I had your expertise on this matter. I would feel so much more comfortable with the whole issue.

I think I will have to just take the gamble and see what I get.

Did you see my post on the type of video card this computer comes with? I'd like you opinion on it if you would be so nice as to take a look at it. I did also mention the computer I'm looking at. There may be one I can purchase on site that may be alittle better then this one. Well...I'm sure there are alot better ones then this one, but maybe this one isn't the right one and the model higher is----you know what I mean I'm sure.

My day is looking brighter----thanks!

With respect to video cards and Photoshop, I am of the opinion that the video card in just about every new system being sold by a major manufacturer such as HP, Dell, etc. is sufficent for Photoshop. I actually went with the built in Intel video card on my new system. Most of the higher end video card functions are only important for games and the like, and possibly some of the pretty Aero features of Vista (transparent windows and the like).

With respect to the specific card you mentioned, the NVIDIA GEFORCE 8300 GS, this is a fairly middle of the road card. It is better than my integrated Intel card, but there are plenty of more powerful cards out there. If you primary use for this computer is going to be Photoshop I think that card is a perfectly good choice. If someone is planning on playing the latest and greatest games on your computer than you may want to look for a system with a better video card.

Richard · January 23, 2008

Foochar wrote:

With respect to the specific card you mentioned, the NVIDIA GEFORCE 8300 GS, this is a fairly middle of the road card. It is better than my integrated Intel card, but there are plenty of more powerful cards out there. If you primary use for this computer is going to be Photoshop I think that card is a perfectly good choice. If someone is planning on playing the latest and greatest games on your computer than you may want to look for a system with a better video card.

Powerful graphics cards are needed for 3D renderings and animation, but not for Photoshop. The Geoforce 8300 GS will be fine for photography, though I have no idea what it will perform like if you are running a TV tuner at the same time.

Dogdots · January 23, 2008

Just a wealth of information---which I so greatly appreciate and thank you all for.

Budget wise I'm looking in the ball park for $1000.00 and alittle above that. I know I could go higher, but really don't want to sink alot of money into the purchase. I just want the best I can get at the low/middle end to run CS3 to its full potential.

If the video card is middle of the road...that is ok with me. I don't play any of the big games that are out there. As for the tv tuner....I can really do without it. That to me is a luxury and not what I use my computer for. Although I do see the benefits of it for some.

The charts on the CPU's is really interesting and fun to see how the performances match up. It is a good tool to have when looking for a computer.

As for the scratch disks....that seems like a life saver in the working of your computer. I will really have to read over the links carefully. Just never knew this existed. I'm soooo sloooow on the learning curve

KED · January 25, 2008

Jumping in late here, but if your decision is CS3 driven (as you have said), IMO you should at least consider whether it's time to switch to Mac. I made the switch from Windows-based in 2007 and will never, ever go back. You're doing considerable research anyway -- you should at least get on line (or better yet go to an Apple store) and compare.

Dogdots · January 25, 2008

KED wrote:

Jumping in late here, but if your decision is CS3 driven (as you have said), IMO you should at least consider whether it's time to switch to Mac. I made the switch from Windows-based in 2007 and will never, ever go back. You're doing considerable research anyway -- you should at least get on line (or better yet go to an Apple store) and compare.

I looked hard at the Mac....software issues stopped me from going in that direction.

If I had to start all over again..I know a Mac would be my choice...as my first computer long ago was a Mac. Why I switched....I can't give a good reason for why I did

KED · January 26, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

I looked hard at the Mac....software issues stopped me from going in that direction.

Well I don't need to cheerlead for Mac, but its great for digital photography, your primary task as you said, and on an Intel-based Mac you can use software such as Parallels to run Windows and Windows-based software as well -- the best of both worlds perhaps! Good luck either way.

Dogdots · January 26, 2008

KED wrote:

Well I don't need to cheerlead for Mac, but its great for digital photography, your primary task as you said, and on an Intel-based Mac you can use software such as Parallels to run Windows and Windows-based software as well -- the best of both worlds perhaps! Good luck either way.

I didn't know that....I should have looked better at the Mac....I definitely made a mistake in my research.

KED · January 26, 2008

Dogdots wrote:

I didn't know that....I should have looked better at the Mac....I definitely made a mistake in my research.

Sounded to me like it's not too late . ..

Dogdots · January 26, 2008

KED wrote:

Sounded to me like it's not too late . ..

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....I ordered my computer just before I read your post about the Mac. Bummer on my part as I didn't do my research to its fullest. Lesson learned on my part......but I do know that I will have to get another computer in the future and then I will do my research better

Computer Confusion

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