Need some advice from photography business owners

SitterS

I would like to ask your expert business opinion on an opportunity that has been presented to me. I will tell the story but leave out the name of the organization involved.

I have a photographer friend that was asked to be the photographer for an organization that puts on events all around the country to raise money for a specific cause. They are very well known. This particular event close to my area seems to be one of the more popular ones. The photographer cannot do the event due to a conflict in schedule so she has called me. She has proposed to pay me for my time, gas and lodging which is fine. In the conversation she also states that the photos will go under her business name and represent her and her photography business. I do know that these photos could potentially be put on their website, national brochures and publications. I am new to the business side of photography and would like to see how some of you would handle the opportunity.

I would love to accept the job but would like to ask that any use of the pictures have my name as well as her business name on them. Is this unfair to ask or if I get paid does this mean I relinquish any rights to have my name on the pictures. Advice would be appreciated.

dusty-dog

I'm new to the business, too, but how in anyone's right mind can they demand that the images go in their name, even when she didn't take them. Sure, let her use the images. Just charge her for a lifetime use, rather than a year's privilege or whatever. Make her pay what she'd expect to be paid for such an arrangement.

Cripes! Am I missing something? Even when I need to relinquish right to an image I take on the job (day job), the National Park Service allows me to display them with my name, but they are technically public domain images. I can never sell them. But, I can display them. And, I can release them to the public for public use. In other words, her demand seems totally unreasonable. I reiterate..... what would she expect if the roles were reversed?

One other question..... How badly do you want or need the money?

My not so humble $0.02.

SitterS

I don't need the money at all but would love to have my name on these photos for this organization. Thank you so much for replying. I am going to propose that I will do it only if my name is attached to all slideshows, publications, etc. If the answer is no, I am not going to do it as if my name is not on the photos then what does it matter. I cannot do the work and let someone else take all the credit and benefit from it. Not my nature at all. Just wanted to see if anyone else had ever had the same situation come up and how it was handled.

Appreciate your response.

Art Scott

I shot for many years never seeing my name given credit for work that still hangs on the walls of many wedding and portrait and sports studios here in Wichita....it is a pain knowing that your work is making someone else tons of money years after you stopped shooting for them.....every photo that went out was gold stamped with the studio name or the studio owners name and that really sucks......I would ask that the credit line be changed for this year only to include your name......as a matter of fact I would offer to embed the credit line right into to the photo file.....such and such studio / sitters.....your not asking to have your contact given to the event promoter so they cannot contact you directly but they may want to have you shoot again thru the original photog......so if she is wiling to pay well enuff it keeps all the actual paper work off you..........

gus

The other day a business asked me if i could photograph a painting they owned (which they had an agreement with the artist over) for an inhouse magazine..i said sure without asking the $. I turned up on my day off...took 30 mins & gave them 100 raw files.

After i finished he said is $300 ok..i said sure. Not one piece of paper signed & i will never see those photos again. Its $300 i didnt have in the morning. I went immediately after i had finished & bought a new hat.

Sometimes its great to just keep it simple. Take the job/$ & be happy without over complicating it.

SitterS

Thanks Art and Gus for your opinions.

Art Scott

gus wrote:

The other day a business asked me if i could photograph a painting they owned (which they had an agreement with the artist over) for an inhouse magazine..i said sure without asking the $. I turned up on my day off...took 30 mins & gave them 100 raw files.

After i finished he said is $300 ok..i said sure. Not one piece of paper signed & i will never see those photos again. Its $300 i didnt have in the morning. I went immediately after i had finished & bought a new hat.

Sometimes its great to just keep it simple. Take the job/$ & be happy without over complicating it.

I have done exactly this exact same thing for a lawyer that had some original Vargas Prints.....I did not want copies or my negs as I migh have been tempted to.......well.......I just did not want to take the chance of what I might do down the road:D..............................

leaforte

Go for it . Gather contacts.

dusty-dog

I did a shoot for a band about a year ago. She wanted images for the website, prints, and a possible album cover. She offered me $100 for about 1/2 hour's shoot and all the images on disk. I didn't care about the images. I agreed, because I needed the money so badly. She gave me the money in cash on the spot, I sent her a disk with the slightly post processed images, and we were both happy.

In other words, it depends on you. What do you need or want. If contacts are what you may get out of this, and that's enough compensation, then go for it. If you really need the money (which you already said you don't), then go for it. If you really want your name associated with the images, well, you read my prvious post. Charge her as high as she would expect if the tables were turned. See if she bites.

xris

She should have no qualms about giving you co-credit under the circumstances, you describe and I don't think it's unreasonable for you to ask. If you don't need the money but you DO want the recognition, why else should you bother doing the work?

Sam

gus wrote:

The other day a business asked me if i could photograph a painting they owned (which they had an agreement with the artist over) for an inhouse magazine..i said sure without asking the $. I turned up on my day off...took 30 mins & gave them 100 raw files.

After i finished he said is $300 ok..i said sure. Not one piece of paper signed & i will never see those photos again. Its $300 i didnt have in the morning. I went immediately after i had finished & bought a new hat.

Sometimes its great to just keep it simple. Take the job/$ & be happy without over complicating it.

Remind self, if I ever go to Australia buy hat BEFORE going.

Sam

MichaelKirk

You guys are crazy!!
I know every situation can be different, but the prices some of you accept are just crazy. I only do this as a PT hobbie, but I have some pretty expensive equipment and spend time shooting away from family - no way I'm giving photos away just for some spare change.

Heck I just recently had a company contact me about using one or two of my photos in their product brochure - I gave them a regular price on one image and a discount of they used two. In the end the wanted to just use one image at first - $500 just for a small catalog run...and that was on the low end of pricing.

You guys/gals should really reconsider what you accept for payment sometimes and make sure it fits what you are giving.

Michael

dusty-dog wrote:

I did a shoot for a band about a year ago. She wanted images for the website, prints, and a possible album cover. She offered me $100 for about 1/2 hour's shoot and all the images on disk. I didn't care about the images. I agreed, because I needed the money so badly. She gave me the money in cash on the spot, I sent her a disk with the slightly post processed images, and we were both happy.

In other words, it depends on you. What do you need or want. If contacts are what you may get out of this, and that's enough compensation, then go for it. If you really need the money (which you already said you don't), then go for it. If you really want your name associated with the images, well, you read my prvious post. Charge her as high as she would expect if the tables were turned. See if she bites.

dusty-dog

MichaelKirk wrote:

I know every situation can be different, but the prices some of you accept are just crazy. I only do this as a PT hobbie, but I have some pretty expensive equipment and spend time shooting away from family - no way I'm giving photos away just for some spare change.

Heck I just recently had a company contact me about using one or two of my photos in their product brochure - I gave them a regular price on one image and a discount of they used two. In the end the wanted to just use one image at first - $500 just for a small catalog run...and that was on the low end of pricing.

You guys/gals should really reconsider what you accept for payment sometimes and make sure it fits what you are giving.

Michael

Yeah, I know it was crazy. As a matter of fact, she asked me to shoot her baby's Christening next month. I declined. I told her I don't do events, and fact is, she's a pain. And, if I asked for a real price, she'd not want to pay. By me not doing the shoot means that she has to actually hire a pro event photograper at pro prices. She's cheap, and it's not my problem. And, trust me, I'll never give away a job that cheap again. Never. Yup, I was crazy. And, I apologize to anyone for my low ball price for that gig. But honestly, I was hurtin' broke. I needed the spare change immediately.

HiSPL

This is not an uncommon practice. How many second shooters at weddings get credit? If you are hired by a studio to shoot "x" event, then the studio pays you for your time and they keep the images. Sweet and simple.

BTW, there are many studios that will set you up with a camera/lens package for certain events. You then become a warm body to press the shutter at certain times. Thems the breaks, and it's the way many great photogs got into business for themselves.

xris

HiSPL wrote:

This is not an uncommon practice. How many second shooters at weddings get credit? If you are hired by a studio to shoot "x" event, then the studio pays you for your time and they keep the images. Sweet and simple.

BTW, there are many studios that will set you up with a camera/lens package for certain events. You then become a warm body to press the shutter at certain times. Thems the breaks, and it's the way many great photogs got into business for themselves.

This is very true. But keep in mind that this shooter is more interested in credit than money.

Icebear

HiSPL wrote:

This is not an uncommon practice. How many second shooters at weddings get credit?

Ummm . . . I don't think it's the same thing. A second shooter is working under the direct supervision of the primary photographer. Not the same IMHO.

bham

Well it sounds like the terms she is laying out is that she will pay you X to shoot the event for her and under her name and with no credit given to you. If you don't do it she will hire someone else that will. So more than likely it will come down to if it worth your time to do it just for the cash.

Just how I see it.

I have a company where we hire people to shoot events and they don't get photo credit. Wal-mart, Sears, etc all have employees who don't get any photo credit. It happens a good bit.