Urgent Pricing Question

chuckinsocal

HI Gang,

I've been workng on this project for 2 months now and just today started getting requests for quotes. One quote has to do with potential magazine covers for a Porche Owners Club (http://www.pcasdr.org/img/2008/newsletter/Jan08web.pdf)

My print prices are posted on my site but I don't know if they are too high, too low, or what. But that's not the urgent question.

The urgent question is how do I quote these jobs? Long story short, I'll go to someone's location, do a shoot, then do 2-4 hours of computer work to arrive at the finished product. Round trip drive time: 60-90 minutes. Shoot Time: 30 minutes max. Then say 3 hours of computer work.

The major question is: Do I charge at the shoot a "shooting fee" of say $75 to cover travel time and expense and labor? Or do I shoot for free in the hopes that the client will buy prints?

Also, some of these people are going to want the full sized .jpg for the magazine cover. Is $150 reasonable, too much, too little? I have $199 for a personal license on my price list but that was just arbitrary. I didn't publish a commercial license price.

These shoots can lead to a LOT more opportunities, so I don't want to quote something that will blow me out. But at the same time, I don't want to be suckered into working for chump change.

I should note that I don't know of anyone else who is doing what I'm doing, but all it would take is someone with a halfway decent camera and some photoshop skills to undercut me.

Any wisdom out there?

Thanks.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

ivar

Hi Chuck, I moved this to MYOB for some more and proper exposure to your questions

rich56k

Hi Chuck,

try checking out this link...
American Society of Media Photographers
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/licensing/index.php

I just attended their 'conference' last weekend in Torrence,
and was overwhelmed by the level of professionalism, business acumen and
info provided...
Try not to limit your options with the train of thought 'anyone with a half way decent camera...etc' I've done the same thing and thats common but it's not valid...Porsche owners aren't looking to save $200, they expect and want professional images and expect to pay for them - I've seen your site and your work is excellent!

Thats why they want you...


The license questions and their usage should determine end cost ...
I'm waiting for my membership to be approved as I write -but there's enough info on ASMP's site to get you off in the right direction...
based on your desc. a minimum of $500 would still be low side..again actual usage will determine (in writing, never sell copyright - unlimited usage maybe) final quote - all I've done so far is numerous magazine/editorial freelance pieces - but you've got a great opportunity !!


rich56k

RustingInPeace

Your Work Your Price
The biggest question is "How much do you want to make"? That is the only thing that matters. I don't think what other people charge is really a concern in my book. My only concern is what I am willing to net on a project.

As mentioned by rich56k, think about this target market. I am going to stereotype here for a minute. If someone is willing to drop from $60,000 to over $120,000 on a car, They are not really going bargain shopping for a photographer. Precise polished work is what they are going to be after. Price is not the primary motivating factor for the majority of these people.

If it was me, I would be inclined to create a luxury experience for these people and charge accordingly. I would keep in mind that these are the type of potential long term clients that you might want. CREATE an experience for them. One that they will brag to their friends about. I tend to never think of people as a sale, but as a series of sales.

chuckinsocal

Thanks ...
Thanks to both you guys for your comments.

I'll check out that web site and I love the idea about the luxury experience.

You'd think these guys wouldn't mind paying a fair price for what I do, but they are already trying to cut my price, which is already too low, and get stuff for free, mainly my original hi res jpg file, under the guise of "exposure opportunity".

I'm about ready to blow them off. I'm not getting sucked into that game because once you're there, is tough to get out. It's easy to cut prices, but almost impossible to raise them within the same group.

In fact, if these guy continue to try to cut my prices, I'm gonna raise them just for spite. Screw 'em. My time is better spent elsewhere.

Can you tell I'm upset?

Anyway, thanks again guys. I hope your team wins the Super Bowl today.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

chuckinsocal

Awesome Link!!!
That lik is full of valuable information. Thanks again for that.

As for usage, these Porsche Club members somehow earn or win the right to have their car on the front page of their monthly magazine. It appears to be a glossy and professionally published magazine which is purported to have a distribution of 3,500 members. The link is in my initial post here. Their initial primary motivation for the portrait is to have something unique and that'll look good on the magazine cover rather than an ordinary snap shot.

After that, they'll be able to order prints for their own use, what ever that may be.

You'd think they'd be more than willing to pay a fair price to have a professional protrait of their $70,000 Porsche on a magazine cover, but so far that's not the case. I'm dealing with the editor of the magazine and not the owners of the cars so I'm not sure what his motivation is. I think he's just trying to get my hi res jpg for free. He says that if I can't give it up for free, he can't recommend me to his members.

I'll let you know how it all works out.

Thanks again guys.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

MJRPHOTO

chuckinsocal wrote:

That lik is full of valuable information. Thanks again for that.

As for usage, these Porsche Club members somehow earn or win the right to have their car on the front page of their monthly magazine. It appears to be a glossy and professionally published magazine which is purported to have a distribution of 3,500 members. The link is in my initial post here. Their initial primary motivation for the portrait is to have something unique and that'll look good on the magazine cover rather than an ordinary snap shot.

After that, they'll be able to order prints for their own use, what ever that may be.

You'd think they'd be more than willing to pay a fair price to have a professional protrait of their $70,000 Porsche on a magazine cover, but so far that's not the case. I'm dealing with the editor of the magazine and not the owners of the cars so I'm not sure what his motivation is. I think he's just trying to get my hi res jpg for free. He says that if I can't give it up for free, he can't recommend me to his members.

I'll let you know how it all works out.

Thanks again guys.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

You should tell him good by.

Pupator

MJRPHOTO wrote:

You should tell him good bye.

Agreed. Unless you want to do this for free, forever, and are happy never making any money of this arrangement - tell him to pound sand.

chuckinsocal

The Outcome to this Drama
Well gang, I stood my ground and I think he blew me off.

My only regret is that I didn't get to triple my fees in his face. I just might do that anyway.

You guys are great and your input and comments are highly valued and appreciated.

I hope you're all Giants fans.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

chuckinsocal

The Next Chapter
The Porsche guys are history. We blew each other off.

But, a lot of good came out of the experience. It forced me to really sit down, analyze my costs, time, and effort for a project and from that I was able to come up with a viable and justifiable price schedule.

I did a presentation at a car club meeting last night, explained what I do and my prices, passed out a price sheet, and not one person objected to the prices and no one tried to beat me down. Someone did ask about a club discount and I'll probably work one out. It'll make them feel like they are getting a bargain so I'll probably get more shoots out of it. It seems like a good business move.

The lesson I want to share with others, especially fellow newbees, is that you have to sit down, analyze what you are really doing and the costs, time and effort involved to produce a quality product, establish a fair hourly rate for yourself and price accordingly.

My hourly rate is acceptable to me for now, but it's not as high as I'd like it to be. I feel that as demand increases I can raise it later, a lttle at a time, until I get to where I really want to be.

I think it's important to be able to explain and justify your prices if challenged. You can even preempt a challenge by explaining in detail what you're gonna do, the time and costs involved to produce a quality product, and what they are going to recieve before you actually state the price.

It's called "yes momentum". As you're explaining, they're agreeing, at least in their own minds. It may be a good idea to pause a couple of times as you're explaining to confirm their understanding and agreement so far. When you get to the price, all that momentum moves the client forward to a final agreement.

In fact, if you explain everything well enough, the client may be expecting a higher price than you actually state so he'll think he's getting a bargain.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with everyone in the hopes that someone can benefit from it all.

Thanks again for all your help and comments.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

MJRPHOTO

chuckinsocal wrote:

In fact, if you explain everything well enough, the client may be expecting a higher price than you actually state so he'll think he's getting a bargain.

http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

You have learned well Grasshopper