No pro waist level lcd?

synature

Back in the 70's I got into photography in a big way, classes and shows and the whole nine yards over in Europe. I used a Hasselblad for most of it and now that I'm starting again, I've been using a Sony R-1 for the past couple years. I was looking at the new Sony entry, the A700 and discovered the lcd is flat on the back. Hmmm, strange I thought, a pro camera that essentially eliminates waist level work. I saw a post in dpreview where the person was wavering between the A700 and the D40 and discovered the D40 doesn't allow waist level viewing either.

Am I wrong in thinking a pro level DSLR ought to have more than up against the eye or stand behind viewing options?

Brandon Smith
http://synature.smugmug.com/

Grainbelt

I think the Olympus has an articulating LCD. Could be wrong.

swintonphoto

Waist level work must be available

Olympus E-3 is the pro-level Olympus camera and it has an articulating LCD screen that can be used as a waist-level viewfinder:
http://www.olympusamerica.com/e3/features.asp

Also, I have an Olympus E-500 and purchased the Olympus waist-level viewfinder attachment. I use it at most of my shoots:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/358256-REG/Olympus_260222_VA_1_VariMagni_Right_Angle.html

Art Scott

Multiple viewing angles should be a professional attribute.

Due to the amount of light hitting the LCD all that I have used are terrible in daylight conditions...with my medium format I used to carry a blk cloth to see really well until I got a beattie intenscreen..........

If you still have that Hassy then there are options for digital backs for them and then your conundrum would be fixed...............

There are add on angle finders and there is also a wired (I think) eternal finder that has been discused on here a couple of times

papajay

Grainbelt wrote:

I think the Olympus has an articulating LCD. Could be wrong.

The E-3 has this. I'm not a pro, so it too $$$ for my budget.

The Lumix L10 has it also, but it sounds like the pro's don't really consider it competitive with the Big Name brands.

I ended up buying a Leica VLUX-1, which has an articulating screen also. It's not a bona-fide DSLR, so doesn't cut the mustard at the pro level...BUT so far, I LOVE it...and LOVE the articulating screen, and 12x opitical zoom with one lens instead of two to cover the same range. (And it's a sub-$1000 camera...I'm really loving THAT!).

ziggy53

synature wrote:

Back in the 70's I got into photography in a big way, classes and shows and the whole nine yards over in Europe. I used a Hasselblad for most of it and now that I'm starting again, I've been using a Sony R-1 for the past couple years. I was looking at the new Sony entry, the A700 and discovered the lcd is flat on the back. Hmmm, strange I thought, a pro camera that essentially eliminates waist level work. I saw a post in dpreview where the person was wavering between the A700 and the D40 and discovered the D40 doesn't allow waist level viewing either.

Am I wrong in thinking a pro level DSLR ought to have more than up against the eye or stand behind viewing options?

Brandon Smith
http://synature.smugmug.com/

Very few film based 35mm format SLR cameras had waist level viewfinders. That feature was mostly found on medium format cameras. The reason has more to do with the physical size of the view screen than anything else.

There are many digicams that had and have articulated LCDs, and I have to admit that my Minolta DiMage A2 has the ability to do waist level work with either the real-time viewfinder or LCD.

The Olympus EVOLT E-330 had an articulated LCD along with a "Live View" mode, but it is not the same as a true optical view screen.

Likewise, I think the new Olympus E-3 has both Live View and an articulated screen.

If you want waist level and an optical screen you should look at the Hasselblad H3D-31, which has both eye-level and waist-level viewing.

Of course you can always just get a right-angle attachment for most dSLRs to alter your viewing perspective.

DonRicklin

ziggy53 wrote:

Very few film based 35mm format SLR cameras had waist level viewfinders. That feature was mostly found on medium format cameras. The reason has more to do with the physical size of the view screen than anything else.

There are many digicams that had and have articulated LCDs, and I have to admit that my Minolta DiMage A2 has the ability to do waist level work with either the real-time viewfinder or LCD.

The Olympus EVOLT E-330 had an articulated LCD along with a "Live View" mode, but it is not the same as a true optical view screen.

Likewise, I think the new Olympus E-3 has both Live View and an articulated screen.
http://www.zigview.co.uk/zigview-R.htm
If you want waist level and an optical screen you should look at the Hasselblad H3D-31, which has both eye-level and waist-level viewing.

Of course you can always just get a right-angle attachment for most dSLRs to alter your viewing perspective.

I use a Zigview R at times. Great for candid street shooting and studio odd angle shots, like straight down from a height. Sits right in front pocket of shoulder camera bag, when not in use. Superior to a standard angle viewer, which I have.

Also has zoom and Motion Detection for Nature shots!

Don

Grainbelt

papajay wrote:

I LOVE it...and LOVE the articulating screen, and 12x opitical zoom with one lens instead of two to cover the same range. (And it's a sub-$1000 camera...I'm really loving THAT!).

I have a Canon S5 IS, and agree on all counts.

Internaut

Multiple viewing angles should be a professional attribute.

Panasonic L1 has waist level viewing mode
Panasonic's rather quirky first attempt at an SLR has a waist level viewing mode for its live mode (at least with the latest firmware). Some of their digicams also have a high angle viewing mode for over the head shots.

claudermilk

Sems to me the basic request at the root of the OP & poll has been answered long ago: angle finder attachments. The Zigview is just a fancier new take on it.

I'll eventually get one for my DSLR as it is a nice option (I just got a WLF for my Mamiya :ivar).

There is an inference that the live view screens being introduced are a "pro-level" feature. Well, for one a "pro" camera is just one that is used by someone making a living at it regardless of where in the model linup the camera falls, and two, I consider that feature a markteing gimmick more than anything else right now...just MHO.

CatOne

Eye level work only, pro's like to contort themselves

If the camera had a waist level view finder, and there were NO negatives to it (camera was no larger, I didn't have to fiddle with it, etc.,) then maybe I'd care. But I think I'd only really have a need in maybe 1% of my shots.

I have a buddy with a 1D Mark III and the live view is very nice (also for extreme zoom for checking focus -- you can get sharper than auto-focus for sure)... I don't know that waist view would add a ton as I rarely put the tripod below waist level and I can crouch.

synature

Thanks for all the input, it has been interesting seeing the variety of opinions. When I had the Hassy I was single and didn't have a mortgage and they didn't cost anyway near as much as they do now. My photographic income can't justify something that costs more than my car, :nono

I looked at a few of the DSLR that have waist level finders, the Olympus and the Sony (A300, but not A700?), but that's what they are, waist or overhead, not the multiple angles I've gotten used to with the R-1. It's not so much for doing the street work where you want to be unobvious, rather it's more like I move around and often find that I want a certain angle, or I'm on the tripod and I use the ball joint to flip it sideways and then find the articulating lcd a godsend. And, I'll admit it, my own joints are not as comfortable with getting into odd positions anymore.

I like the concept of the zigview and may go that route if only for the time exposure capability. But it's beginning to look like it'll be a necessity for my shooting style if I want to upgrade to a better sensor/lens combination than I have with the R-1.

I've seen a lot of photogs who apparently frame through the viewfinder, but then look to see what they've got. I normally turn off the preview and shoot manually anyway, reasonably confident that I'm getting what I want if I've got things composed in the lcd the way I want. And I've come to enjoy holding the camera out a bit, or sitting on a table or on my lap so I can see the rest of the scene -- I've captured several good shots by noticing something and adjusting where I'm pointing at the last second.


Brandon Smith
http://synature.smugmug.com/[/QUOTE]

pyry

Waist level work should be an option

I've had a Zigwiew S2 on my wishlist for a long time now. Just havent had the extra cash... Damn things cost, well, photographic amounts of munnee.

claudermilk

synature wrote:

Thanks for all the input, it has been interesting seeing the variety of opinions. When I had the Hassy I was single and didn't have a mortgage and they didn't cost anyway near as much as they do now. My photographic income can't justify something that costs more than my car, :nono

Well...only if you just look at the newer digital models (H System). Take a look at prices of older V-System stuff at KEH. Hassy is still dear (too much so IMHO), but older film gear is going for pennies on the dollar. That Mamiya I mentioned was $350 ready to shoot (645Pro body, 80/1.8, back, unmetered prism, power grip).

keepright

Multiple viewing angles should be a professional attribute.

Tonight I was shooting from a tripod with the E-3's flippy screen set for the most comfortable viewing angle. Eventually someone asked me how I got the screen to do that trick, and if it was available as an aftermarket add-on.

"A solution looking for a problem", anyone?

20DNoob

claudermilk wrote:

Sems to me the basic request at the root of the OP & poll has been answered long ago: angle finder attachments. The Zigview is just a fancier new take on it.

I'll eventually get one for my DSLR as it is a nice option (I just got a WLF for my Mamiya :ivar).

There is an inference that the live view screens being introduced are a "pro-level" feature. Well, for one a "pro" camera is just one that is used by someone making a living at it regardless of where in the model linup the camera falls, and two, I consider that feature a markteing gimmick more than anything else right now...just MHO.

So true.

swintonphoto

Waist level work must be available

keepright wrote:

Tonight I was shooting from a tripod with the E-3's flippy screen set for the most comfortable viewing angle. Eventually someone asked me how I got the screen to do that trick, and if it was available as an aftermarket add-on.

"A solution looking for a problem", anyone?

Go Oly!

ziggy53

keepright wrote:

Tonight I was shooting from a tripod with the E-3's flippy screen set for the most comfortable viewing angle. Eventually someone asked me how I got the screen to do that trick, and if it was available as an aftermarket add-on.

"A solution looking for a problem", anyone?

You should contact Olympus' Marketing and tell them the story. They could market the E-3 plus lenses and such as an "aftermarket add-on" for the other manufacturers.