Photographing Homeless/Poverty
christulk
Registered Users Posts: 453 Major grins
Hi all,
I am heading to India next week and would really like to take some sots of the poverty/poor in the city.
I was after some advice on how to do it. Should I ask permission (maybe losing the 'moment'), offer some money, give some food, do nothing, what...:scratch
What are the thoughts out there? I would appreciate your ideas.
Thanks
I am heading to India next week and would really like to take some sots of the poverty/poor in the city.
I was after some advice on how to do it. Should I ask permission (maybe losing the 'moment'), offer some money, give some food, do nothing, what...:scratch
What are the thoughts out there? I would appreciate your ideas.
Thanks
0
Comments
If its a fleeting moment on the "street", by all means, take the shot. In fact if you're only taking a quick shot, in general, don't stop to ask. If you want to use someone more as a subject, with multiple shots, I do think engagement is called for.
In any case, if they are needy and you on the other hand are relatively affluent, then a tip or donation is definitely appropriate, in my opinion. I'm just talking about the kind of donation that corresponds to a normal street donation in the less intrusive photo moment, but something a little more (but still in scale with a normal street donation) than that if you do more of a shoot session -- it's only fair.
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Hi Chris- I hope you enjoy your time in India. You're in for an experience like no other place. Until you've been there it's hard to explain. India is right in your face every moment. I have spent much of the past 20 years living and traveling in India and all of Asia. The photo opportunities are immense. I would suggest that you think more about your photography there as an opportunity to document the real everyday lives of the people there instead of just focusing on the "poverty" aspect. Remember, they are not animals in a zoo, there just for the casual amusement of foreign travelers. People anywhere want to be treated with dignity and get a sense that you are respectful of their lives. Most of the time a warm smile and a sense of humility will be your best asset. In general, unless you ask someone to pose or do something special for you, I wouldn't advise giving money. It sets a very bad precedent for other photogrpahers that come along after you and is just not a good idea. Even in India, the streets and countryside are free and open for the creative expression of a photographer. DOn't feel pressured to give money just because you're carrying a camera and you're doing something that you enjoy. If someone resists your advances to photograph them, just smile and walk away. I have seen some very remote and untouched places become totally ruined for photography after several years of "well meaning" tourists paying local kids and adults for their touristy snapshots. It can make for very obnoxious kids. In most cases, unless you ask someone to do a particular thing for you, don't feel obligated to pay them. On the other hand, sometimes because of circumstances or a personal connection, you just want to help someone out. But that's something that you decide. If you have the time, take a look at some of my galleries. Maybe you'll get some good ideas. Have a good trip and let me know how it turns out.
Bill
I like the idea of ducumenting thier lives - will give it a try and hopefully get some ok shots. I'm only going to Mumbai for a few days and then home. I'll post the results.
Thanks again for you advice.:D
Cheers
Chris
http://christulk.smugmug.com
'alot' is two words "a_______lot":D
you could attend a few political marches, people are more open to letting anyone photograph or videotape them in those situations
I must warn you though, sometimes it does get a little rough
However, in the same breath some of us describe income opportunities afforded to disadvantaged citizens of developing countries - I mean the opportunities to get at desperately needed cash sources offered by the presence of cruising affluent foreign visitors on their ground - as optional, and moreover, at the sole discretion of those visitors. This to me is offensive.
The need of disadvantaged persons of some of my money has greater integrity, I believe, and therefore has a greater implication for my behavior, than my need for "unspoiled" photographic subjects. If the consequence for us is more demanding, less subservient and better-off locals, then that is progress, in my opinion.
I have traveled and taken photographs in many parts of Africa and Asia, including India and Sri Lanka. I have found that the people who I have photographed have only become REAL PEOPLE, to me and to THEMSELVES, when I have first acknowledged their rights to income opportunities to be equal to mine, whatever the actual size of our incomes.
I have taken candid snaps everywhere I go (until just recently, I was using just a nice compact, and with only very amateurish skills), but whenever I have wanted more controlled shots I have always negotiated with the person. Usually, I have started a relationship with them with their needs and mine as the basis, and these relationships in some cases have transcended those needs and the photographic moment, so that now I have lines of attachment of various degrees of strength and completeness connecting me to several people around the world. I have got more than just photographs from using my camera.
I have found that such an attitude is an antidote to "Westernermorphism", and has helped temper in me the indiscriminate snapping frenzy which makes tourists look so disconnected (and ridiculous and pitiful) from the common human lot we all in fact share. In today's world, scratch the surface, the photograph, of the "exotic" and you will find suffering, want, frustration. Through your visit and your photographs you can give some ease.
None of us needs to be "documented".
Awais's "Her Dream in Her Hand" says all this.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Poetic and relevant words, Neil.
Her Dream in Her Hand could also be named, ask not what they can do for you, but what you can do for them.
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
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As this is my favourit subject i cannot do more then upload to smugmug so i promote those photos a lot.
I pay to children or deserving people. You may found many begging just to get alcohal or drugs.
It is possible that you may find habitual people of begging you have to see yourself.
It may disturb you.
thanks happy shooting do share your photos and experience i also agree to shoot everything rather then focusing on poverty
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it depends just point camera towards the person if he has no issue he will not say or do something if he dont want to be photographed he will wave hand in disaggreement don't know whats fashion in India but it is what Happens in Pakistan
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At the end of the day, they are still poor and you get to go back home. I would respect your post much more if you sold your camera, took the money it cost to travel to that location to go photograph the person and send it to a charity that actually helps that person. Then, take the amount you "paid" them and go buy yourself a coke for a job well done.
There is a big difference between so called "disadvantaged" and simple living. I know and have met people all over the world who are let's just say "less affluent" and live very simple lives with meager financial holdings. They also hold onto their dignity and do not become beggars just because a visitor from another place "might" have more money than them. As a traveler in distant places, you are not under some kind of moral obligation to make judgements and assume that other need or want your help. I happen to live in an area where many thousands of foreign tourists visit at all times of the year. There are also many local homeless or disadvantaged peole around, and I don't see any of them begging for handouts from visiting foreigners or asking for money if a camera happened to be pointed their way. In this modern world foreign travel is becoming accesible to all countries, and I don't think anyone should feel obligated to pay their way through a place just to take a few photos.
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If you come to my country and I suspect that you make $1,000 more a year than me, do I have the "right" to beg for money from you for taking a photo of me? Do you feel an obligation to pay me for your photos of me?
Long and short: ethical travel is very difficult. When I am traveling I am always confronted by these challenges, and perhaps only time will tell what the right or wrong choices are/were.
VI
I can understand the motivation and if you feel moved to help, that's great. In the end, it doesn't change their situation. We don't know the history or the circumstances. I am not saying it's wrong to help out, but there are greater issues at hand besides western governments. Sometimes it's not our fault.
Feeling guilty is a natural feeling, but it doesn't translate in helping the person out. If helping out is done to alleviate guilt, then it's a selfish motive. I am not against having compassion or helping out when their is a need. However, there are bigger issues when their is perpetual poverty and a small payment for taking a photograph doesn't break the cycle.
Do these people choose their way of life or are they locked into it and would change it if they could?
If you have the luxury and power of options in the way you live your life you need no one. If you don't, you might very well need all the help you can beg, borrow or steal to get more options!
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You make a good point! (If you can take a little seeming paternalism from me, along with the insult and pretentiousness!
What we can actually do about governments is perhaps more limited than you or I dare to confront. In some countries, you bare your throat to the executioner’s knife (in some form or other) by exercising what is above it, your mind and your mouth, in the government’s direction. Contrariwise, should your stomach be starved because you keep your mouth closed?
Like governments, economies too have us in thrall. The system that we have at the moment works by recycling income. Whether this is done in our home country or somewhere else, the economy is sustained and the knock-on benefits of our individual spending are far reaching. So traveling, owning a camera etc benefit not only me, but the economy and consequently people generally. As disadvantaged people improve their position in their economies, they too spend more on themselves, and the economy and their position in it is further strengthened. If you do travel in the third world you will clearly see how tourism increases opportunities for a great many people to raise their income. Lots of tourists are also lots of attention on the government, and this might lead to a political improvement for the citizens, something you seem to think is necessary.
However, what I said in my previous post belongs at a more personal level. I distrust organisations taking money to help “someone”, “somewhere”, “sometime”. Whenever I have traveled in developing countries I have been struck by the ability of people to get what they need from each other directly. The meeting of need and responsibility at this direct and personal level seems to me to be a different kind of operation. It’s a “hidden” economy, and for the people involved it is the most important. Generosity and self-sacrifice, and other humane virtues are part of it in a way and to a degree they are not in the formal economy, and people are much more interconnected in personally significant networks.
I choose relationships with people at this level when I travel (rather than a go-between organisation back home), where we deal with each other directly. They like it too because they see that they are contributing to me and how I value that. In your part of the world it might also be considered part of neighborliness. Do you really mean you prefer to give help to your neighbor through a go-between charity and not have any reciprocal relationship with them? It seems to me to be a shadow of what it means to live “socially”.
So, I am talking about on-the-ground economic transactions around wanting photographs and providing that service, which are small, limited and episodic, but are meaningful and significant in my and their economic and social context.
You mention buying a coke. That too is a small, limited and episodic economic transaction which benefits both you and the manufacturer-retailer. Do you have a problem with that as well? You will get in trouble if you steal a coke, remember. How insignificant then is the cost? Where people are involved, nothing is truly free. Enough of these transactions and their value is life-changing (and the basis on a corporate scale of a multinational enterprise).
You, of course, do not have information about the cost to me of such transactions with people when I travel, so I am puzzled why you put it at the cost of a coke? Were you attempting a joke? If I go to the trouble that I have described, do you really wish to persist with the suggestion that the amount I pay is meaningless to me? Even so, if your boss took from your salary the equivalent of the cost of your year’s supply of coke would you feel nothing? Or, to put it another way, if your boss offered to supply you with coke for free would you say no? And would you be BEGGING if you accepted?
Some people do in fact live on the cost of a bottle of coke a day. I guess that, taking your lead, I could suggest to you that you give what you spend on coke a year to someone who gives you photos that you value next time you are in their country. I think it could make a difference to you both! (If the person were on the same or higher socioeconomic level than you they would naturally refuse, unless it was their job - you would recognise that it was their job and respect that, I'm sure, and pay what they charged. If the person were lower they would not refuse, I think. Yet you would apparently not consider that it might be a kind of "job" also in their case - WHY would you not?.)
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Looks like a great book by the way, going to get one, and glad you are here!
Neighbor is someone who lives next you, not a philosophical neighbor of the world. Of course you should have direct contact.
If I misunderstood your original post, then I apologize. It sounded like a rant on western culture. However, I am through with this thread as these philosophical discussions of "what is the value of a coke" can go on and on.
Thanks for your inputs.
I'm looking forward to getting over there.
Cheers
Chris
http://christulk.smugmug.com
'alot' is two words "a_______lot":D
Where is the philosophy? I have looked and looked and I can't find any anywhere. People don't become bits of philosophy because they are further away than next door. If the price of a coke is philosophical, how come Coke is doing so well?
I was saying if someone does you a service pay them. Some people seem to think this only applies back home where "real" people live. That it doesn't apply to those philosophical things in the third world.
I made the distinction in my first post between candid snaps in the street etc, and photos which you deliberately take with more involvement with another person. This latter situation is what my comments apply to, not the former.
Be warned, that you can be treated as a source of income only, and sometimes rudely so. Becoming involved even to this small extent can be a minefield. You have to have sufficient people skills, cultural understanding, fortitude, discretion and discreteness, and so on, to avoid the worst of possible negativity.
Never pay out any money, no matter how small the amount, to anyone at all, including beggars, children, amputees, the deformed, mothers with babies etc etc, at large in public view. This will take almost impossible self-control!! And they KNOW it!! Never begin contact with anyone on the basis of money. Always spend sufficient time clarifying what you are asking of them. Know beforehand what amount of money would be appropriate for what they give you according to local costs, then increase this to please them and be really useful. Show this discretely to them in your hand. Give it to them if they indicate they will accept. Take your photos. Completely and firmly ignore further requests from them for more money, or from any bystanders who want in. Move away quickly if you begin to feel uncomfortable. Always heed advice from your government about your security.
You are on a holiday, perhaps, but for many of the people you are holidaying among life is brutal and short. You will have to deal with the effects of this fact.
On the other hand, you can also find a sense of common humanity, goodwill, humor, and other good things, to which you can add whatever you can bring.
Disclaimer: the above is certified philosophy free! (Unless jonh68 can find it!
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Neil makes 3 very excellent points. To the poor, a rich Westerner is potentially an ATM with legs. Once you act that way, you have solidified that view.
I aimed camera to a nomad looking woman who was selling somethings she atonce said "I will slap your face if you shot my picture" she became very aggressive and people around her assured her no picture was taken otherwise i would have finger prints on my face.
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A lot has been said about the ethics of photographing poor people, I have my own opinion but I don't feel writing about it here will add much more than has already been mentioned. Instead of this, let me say a couple of things that you might find useful in India.
Saddhus, these are the hindu holy men. 99% of the ones you see are scammers, the real saddhus have given up material posessions and will never ask for money (it is literally against their religion). The ones that you will most likely see, especially in tourist areas, are scammers/beggars. Most of the time they are brought to a city, I'll use cochin as an example in this case, by the local mafia. They will then hang around touristy areas and pose for photos, then demand huge (in Indian standards, at least 50-100 roupies) amounts of money for the photos. They intimidate tourists by being very aggressive into giving them money. They usually make over 1000 per day, depending on the area. Compare that to a normal manual labor worker who would be lucky to get 100. Most of their income goes to the organized crime syndicate as "rent" for working an area.
Generally when you are in India, do NOT give money to beggars. They are usually part of organized crime, often paying for the right to "beg" in a particular area of a city. The closer the area to tourists the higher the "rent". If you do want to help out a beggar, do NOT give them money. Buy them food, but make sure you open the wrapper so they cannot return it to the store where you bought it for a partial refund (I've seen that happen a few times). I've had beggars angrily refuse the food I bought for them, even though they asked for money to be fed. Often if they do not pay a certain amount of "rent" they get beaten as well. "non-performing" beggars will eventually be kicked out of an area and others brought in. It's a nasty, brutal, underground business...but it's a fact of Indian life.
There have been cases of mothers mutilating their children on purpose, because these kids make tourists feel more sorry for them which equates to a higher "donation".
It is interesting that most of the beggars in the South Indian touristy areas are brought in by organized crime from out of state. Almost all of the beggars in Cochin in Kerala are actually from Tamil Nadu. If a real beggar wanted to come to the touristy area there and beg for money, that person would be brutally beaten within a day and kicked out of the area. Same thing happens in Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi, Varanasi, and many other cities. These are just the ones I know of personally.
Personally, this is what I would do. NEVER give money to beggars. Helping is great, but make sure that if you do give money it's to a legitimate NGO/charity organization. An reputable Indian organization is ideal, in most western NGO's 50% of the money donated goes towards "administrative costs" (THose NGO executives often have extremely nice salaries, guess who pays for them).
Do not give money to Saddhus, a real Saddhu will refuse to take money from you.
I don't pay people when I take their picture. I ask them very politely, and usually they accept. After/Before I take the photo, I always try to talk to them, and always show them the photo on the LCD, making sure to thank them again. Smiling and being nice is the best way to get good photos.
When I was in India and Bangladesh last month (I posted some photos in Journeys) I took a lot of photos in very poor villages. Instead of giving them money which they asked for, I promised to print the photos out and give them to the people. I went to a local 1 hour photo shop, printed out a bunch of pictures and went back to th village. You would not belive how happy everyone was! I had the entire village around me looking at the pictures and pointing when they found thenselves and laughing.
BTW, many tourist promise to do that but never actually deliver. If you do make a promise like that, make sure you actually do it.
I hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions. If you let me know specifically where in India you are planing on traveling, I might be able to give you very specific adice (even street names for some cities).
Here is a page from my recent trip if you are interested, I do have quite a few portraits there
http://jimbojack.com/South_Asia.htm
Just back from Europe, Eastern Turkey, Iraq and Iran, new photos coming soon!
Over 100 Countries, thousands of pictures, one Website (being redesigned at the moment)
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Thanks for your views and suggestions. Had a look at some of your photos - Very nice! Hope I can get a few as good as yours.
Cheers
Chris
http://christulk.smugmug.com
'alot' is two words "a_______lot":D
And never give money to children. Some countries post notices to this effect when you enter (I don't know about Indai). It is hard to fight the exploitation of children when it is so easily funded by people with good intentions.
Well, I'm in Mumbai at the moment... what an amazing place - an assult on every sense, sight, sound, smell, taste.
I am certainly struggling to be able to take shots of the unfortunate many that are trapped by poverty.
Today whilst in a taxi, a girl came to the window and motioned for money to use to buy food. She was nursing a very young child - who was asleep. It would have ben an amazing photo, but there was no way I could lift my camera a take the shot.
I will be in Mumbai a few more time in the next month, so I will keep trying to capture some of the sights and people.
This little girl passed me in the street and stopped so I could take her photo.
Cheers
Chris
http://christulk.smugmug.com
'alot' is two words "a_______lot":D