Anoyone have expercience w/ Ubuntu+Compiz+VirtualBox?

SloYerRoll

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=8lepx537fs

Check that video out.
Anyone out there know more? It's really interesting and would be great if I could run this on my machine since I do Unix based work along w/ windows applications.
I know it runs on Mac. But if this could help me pull the trigger back to Mac w/ coolness like that..

cabbey

SloYerRoll wrote:

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=8lepx537fs

Check that video out.
Anyone out there know more? It's really interesting and would be great if I could run this on my machine since I do Unix based work along w/ windows applications.
I know it runs on Mac. But if this could help me pull the trigger back to Mac w/ coolness like that..

I'm pretty certain that was not running on a mac. It's compiz (http://compiz.org/) which is an OpenGL window manager... or as one of my co-workers put it, "your window manager on crack, speed and acid... all at the same time." He did a similar demo a while back for us, minus the snazzy soundtrack. He spent 2 weeks fighting with it to get it stable enough to last through a 5 minute demo... and we're all professional Linux geeks.

Anyway, from the list of ingredients in the title and what I saw them doing, I'd say the setup was as follows:

• system had a Linux compatible graphics card with full OpenGL Acceleration in the driver.
• system was running ubuntu linux, quite possibly plus some bleeding edge packages/updates to core pieces of the OS
• system had virtual box installed, it had windows running in it
• virtual box was set to full screen on desktop 4

You'll note that the windows windows don't have the wobble of compiz, and, even taking the compression of the youtube video into account, showed the visible redraw issue that's common to windows on virtual displays (virtual box, qemu, vmware, etc...)

a couple more videos:

• http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w
• http://youtube.com/watch?v=DUSn-jBA3CE
• http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CgqWlX_GsI It's too bad this one has no sound , as far as I know this is a live capture of a demo given at a conference, so the speaker was talking about what he was doing.

SloYerRoll

Thanks for the detailed reply Cabbey!

I've been using *nix boxes for just under two years. So while I'm not a nOOb, I'm definately not a pro. (I've spent more time shelling into servers than sitting at physical machines)

So the main thing I'm reading from your post is lack of stability. I prefer to stay away from the bleeding edge and just like razor sharp since I don't have the time to spend 5 hours/days trying to fix a problem w/ real life deadlines etc..

So since I'm on the windows subject anyway. Do you have any advise for running a PC dual configuration w/ something like Ubuntu? I've read some articles on running a nix OS on top of windows in a virtual environment.

I've also read about dual boot* or using a thumb drive to boot into a nix system and about 8000 variances of the two previous scenarios. There are allot of things I'd like to try but am nervous to take the plunge since everyone has their typical, "This could completely hose your machine" disclaimers. I have all my data backed up, but I'd love to hear your opinion (or links you trust) since your a pro in this area.

My ultimate goal is to have my main machine running Ubuntu (just due to the awesome support forums) and Vista in harmonious parallel. If I could step away completely from Vista, I'm more than willing. But I run allot of windows apps** and I'm not sure if wine supports all of them.

Thoughts?

-Jon

* I successfully set up dual boot to my main machine before. But was just getting into *nix so I didn't see as much use for it as I do now.

**
-Adobe Web Premium
-Lr
(I don't mind switching to open source on anything below, but it needs to be close in functionality)
-MS Office 2007
-Snaggit
-Tons of small apps that I live in such as EditPlus2 etc..
-I also run dual monitors and need use of both.

mwgrice

I think your biggest problems are going to be the Adobe products. I saw on Slashdot last week that Google was going to fund Codeweavers to get CS3 to work on Linux, however, which is encouraging. I've run their CrossOver Office product for a couple of years now to run MS Office apps (primarily Word and Excel). They have their little idiosyncracies, but overall they worked pretty well. Dual boot is definitely one way to go. Just make sure you have everything backed up when you do the install. I have yet to (permanently) hose up a working partition that way, but it's easy enough to do. You can certainly use a thumb drive or a live CD to boot into Linux, too. I was having some laptop issues last year and I borrowed my wife's laptop and used a Knoppix CD to get some work done.

xris

Unbuntu
Been running Ubuntu for over a year now on an old Pentium 4 box. Seems pretty stable. It will run on a Mac -- I've seen it done -- but it takes some special tweaking and is not for the weak-of-heart. Can't really see a reason why one would want to anyway??. (The Mac is really just a Unix box with a pretty interface, after all?)

My guess is you'd need a lot of nice, fast RAM to do what I see in that video.

I also remember there was a group working on a specialized version called Ubuntu Studio targeted squarely there. Check into that?

BTW - I run several Linux apps under Vista. No need to install Ubuntu on top. The app's typically have a GTK+ version that installs with them to provide the necessary libraries and run the necessary resources within Windows. GIMP, for instance, runs better under Vista now than it does under Ubuntu (at least for me) and the updates are available faster too.

Thing is, there are ALL KINDS of neat image and audio manipulation tools available for Linux!

SloYerRoll

xris wrote:

BTW - I run several Linux apps under Vista. No need to install Ubuntu on top. The app's typically have a GTK+ version that installs with them to provide the necessary libraries and run the necessary resources within Windows. GIMP, for instance, runs better under Vista now than it does under Ubuntu (at least for me) and the updates are available faster too.

Can you go into a bit more detail as to running nix apps under Vista? Do you mean dual boot configuration?

xris wrote:

Thing is, there are ALL KINDS of neat image and audio manipulation tools available for Linux!

Yes there are, but I like so many other have become ingrained into Adobe products both mentally and financially. To switch over to open source (or even paid software) from Adobe when I just upgraded is more than I can handle. Not to mention There's a comfort level and knowledge base w/ Adobe that doesn't have an equal in any graphics application.

BTW: I've got tons of fast RAM and a screaming video card. So that's the least of my concerns.I care more about stability as previously mentioned.


On another note:
Does Ubuntu have RAM limitations like Vista x86? I have 4GB of RAM not recognized by Vista jsut waiting for me to upgrade and wondering if Ubuntu will "see" the whole lot of it. (I don't really care that it's not used right now. Photoshop never hit's my scratch disk and RAM usage only got to 100% one time when I was running a java application.

mwgrice

SloYerRoll wrote:

Can you go into a bit more detail as to running nix apps under Vista? Do you mean dual boot configuration?

Yes there are, but I like so many other have become ingrained into Adobe products both mentally and financially. To switch over to open source (or even paid software) from Adobe when I just upgraded is more than I can handle. Not to mention There's a comfort level and knowledge base w/ Adobe that doesn't have an equal in any graphics application.

BTW: I've got tons of fast RAM and a screaming video card. So that's the least of my concerns.I care more about stability as previously mentioned.


On another note:
Does Ubuntu have RAM limitations like Vista x86? I have 4GB of RAM not recognized by Vista jsut waiting for me to upgrade and wondering if Ubuntu will "see" the whole lot of it. (I don't really care that it's not used right now. Photoshop never hit's my scratch disk and RAM usage only got to 100% one time when I was running a java application.

There are a number of ways in which you can run Linux apps on Windows. Many Linux apps, for instance, are written with cross-platform GUI toolkits such as GTK+, which runs on Windows and Mac as well as Linux. So it's not uncommon to see a Windows version of many "Linux" apps, such as the GIMP.

If I remember correctly you've probably got two options for seeing memory larger than 4 GB. First, Ubuntu may have a hugemem kernel or its equivalent for 32-bit Ubuntu. If I remember correctly, there's a performance hit (hopefully offset by having more memory). You'll have to ask around on the Ubuntu forums for details, I've never used Ubuntu myself.

The second option is just to use a 64-bit version of Ubuntu (or a 64-bit version of Vista). See here for some Ubuntu forum links on 64-bit versus 32-bit:

http://sudan.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=368607

In general, on 64-bit Linux you're more likely to run into issues getting some things to work (much like you will on 64-bit Windows). I personally have been sticking with 32-bit for my own machines, but I don't have anything with 4 GB of RAM at the moment either. At work, it depends on the hardware, the app and customer needs.

nmh

open source

SloYerRoll wrote:

Can you go into a bit more detail as to running nix apps under Vista? Do you mean dual boot configuration?

(adding to some of what mwgrice already said)
For some programs (eg GIMP on NT), you can install it like you would most anything else. For others (eg gEDA), you can install Cygwin and then use that to install the program(s) you want.

If you want to poke around with things in a full linux environment (without rebooting), you can use vmware, or QEMU (both of which should be able to use a real partition). One setup that you cannot do the reverse of is to run linux cooperatively with microsoft (ref).

Migrating the software you use and then the OS is a reasonable path - I think it would be slower, and you would run into problems you wouldn't see if you jumped straight over. Such effort would buy you safety and a possibly easier learning curve.

SloYerRoll

Thanks MW & NM,

I like the idea of vmware, or QEMU at this point since I'm just getting into Perl and my real job is very Adobe related. It makes the most sense to have my cake and eat it too.

I'm going to re-read this whole thread tomorrow to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Thanks again for all the knowledge!

nmh

SloYerRoll wrote:

Thanks MW & NM,

I like the idea of vmware, or QEMU at this point since I'm just getting into Perl and my real job is very Adobe related. It makes the most sense to have my cake and eat it too.

If you want to use proprietary software, I think parallels and vmware are the most popular. They should have everything gift wrapped for you - but [SIZE=-1]caveat emptor.[/SIZE]

For lots of details, I suggest you take a glance (or two) at the wikipedia VM list. I have not used virtualbox nor the QEMU accelerators - I think it should be simple enough but I would still recommend checking your backups (as should be done before upgrades, installs, and periodically in general).

cabbey

SloYerRoll wrote:

So the main thing I'm reading from your post is lack of stability. I prefer to stay away from the bleeding edge and just like razor sharp since I don't have the time to spend 5 hours/days trying to fix a problem w/ real life deadlines etc..

Yeah, at this point I'd say that stack is not ready for prime time. Give it a while to stabilize and make it into distros. (I'm told they're getting close to being there, so the next ubuntu release might be better.)

So since I'm on the windows subject anyway. Do you have any advise for running a PC dual configuration w/ something like Ubuntu? I've read some articles on running a nix OS on top of windows in a virtual environment.

I've also read about dual boot* or using a thumb drive to boot into a nix system and about 8000 variances of the two previous scenarios. There are allot of things I'd like to try but am nervous to take the plunge since everyone has their typical, "This could completely hose your machine" disclaimers. I have all my data backed up, but I'd love to hear your opinion (or links you trust) since your a pro in this area.

I've been away from windows for a LONG time now. Back when I actually used it, rather than duel booting I was quite fond of the container approach, such as vmware or qemu or one of those. At this point, I'd stick with vmware. The only real question becomes... what hosts what? do you put linux in a vmware session hosted by windows? or do you put windows in a vmware session hosted by linux. It really comes down to a matter of personal preference. Personally I tended to put the shorter MTBF os in the vmware image... so windows went in and could have it's daily reboot while I still got work done in linux. Now if you're new to linux on the desktop however, it might be nice to experiment with it in a vm before you commit your entire machine to it. This is especially usefull for playing with the various options at install time.

My ultimate goal is to have my main machine running Ubuntu (just due to the awesome support forums) and Vista in harmonious parallel. If I could step away completely from Vista, I'm more than willing. But I run allot of windows apps** and I'm not sure if wine supports all of them.

Thoughts?

-Jon

* I successfully set up dual boot to my main machine before. But was just getting into *nix so I didn't see as much use for it as I do now.

**
-Adobe Web Premium
-Lr
(I don't mind switching to open source on anything below, but it needs to be close in functionality)
-MS Office 2007

Gah, try open office on linux.

-Snaggit
-Tons of small apps that I live in such as EditPlus2 etc..
-I also run dual monitors and need use of both.

dual head isn't nearly as difficult to setup as it used to be... especially if they don't come and go like a laptop would. If the screens are always there it's pretty simple to build a multi-monitor desktop that spans both.

quark

I just wanted to add that vmware can also be free if you run the windows host with a linux virtual box. You can download vmplayer for free and then download a pre-configured ubuntu box (look at the virtual machines listed on the vmware website).

That said I also strongly prefer a linux host with an windows box running inside as well. I find I only boot the window box 2% of the time.

SloYerRoll

I understand this is a "it depends" kinda question, but do you think (big flick here) that I'll have any problems w/ proprietary files such as excel and other things? I don't have anything too abstract since all my files are either plain text (code) or Adobe suite created.

I like the idea of running a nix box and just launching Vista in a nice little container. When I run *nix only, it's less intensive on my machine, can recognize my machines full potential (I'm pretty sure they have a 64bit version of Ubuntu).
But am concerned w/ the migration process. I have all my Adobe apps dialed in so one screen has palettes etc.. Would running in a virtual environment allow me to use Vista like it was running 100 percent normal from a UI perspective?

cabbey

SloYerRoll wrote:

I understand this is a "it depends" kinda question, but do you think (big flick here) that I'll have any problems w/ proprietary files such as excel and other things? I don't have anything too abstract since all my files are either plain text (code) or Adobe suite created.

If they are files you are creating, there are usually options you can use to "save as" in something compatible with linux office suites such as OpenOffice. Generally speaking, unless you drift way outside the norm, you'll be able to open the files in open office. That said, if you already have the windows office suite, you might occasionally need to pop into there with files you get from others to save as back to some sane version of the file format. (pretty much every release has had a new one.) The ONLY thing I miss from Excel is macros. I was what you might call a "power user" of Excel at one point in the past... had thousand of lines of vb macros in a number of spread sheets, many with dialogs. The scripting support in open office just ain't there from a usability perspective, though the latest version is a noticeable improvement, I was actually able to generate a moderately complex solver a few weeks ago.

I like the idea of running a nix box and just launching Vista in a nice little container. When I run *nix only, it's less intensive on my machine, can recognize my machines full potential (I'm pretty sure they have a 64bit version of Ubuntu).

Yes, there is an x86_64 unbuntu... but even with a 32bit kernel, in PAE mode it can handle more than 4G of memory in the system. (this is one reason the Linux community laughs at windows.

But am concerned w/ the migration process. I have all my Adobe apps dialed in so one screen has palettes etc.. Would running in a virtual environment allow me to use Vista like it was running 100 percent normal from a UI perspective?

VMWare does have a "full screen" mode iirc. It might be a tad slower, as it's not hardware accelerated at the windows side. At that point I've actually seen windows users sat down in front of a machine and spend hours using it before they were told that it was actually a Linux box and that they were running windows in a virtual machine.

SloYerRoll

Thanks Cabbey for taking your time to reply.

One last question. Windows is my primary OS at this point. Please tell me I won't have to format this drive and I can just partition the "OS" drive and then just boot from GRUB.

nmh

SloYerRoll wrote:

Thanks Cabbey for taking your time to reply.

One last question. Windows is my primary OS at this point. Please tell me I won't have to format this drive and I can just partition the "OS" drive and then just boot from GRUB.

I have used gparted (live cd version) to resize/move partitions. It worked without any problems, but I took backups beforehand just in case.

I will make the (unsupported) claim that you can setup your computer for dualbooting and then use QEMU/Virtualbox to get them both up at the same time.

SloYerRoll

Thanks nmh.

Anyone out there that can support this claim. I'm sure you can understand that I' weary of doing this to my main machine unless I know it will work.

BTW: I do have full backups of everything.

nmh

SloYerRoll wrote:

Anyone out there that can support this claim. I'm sure you can understand that I' weary of doing this to my main machine unless I know it will work.

Not open source, but sounds like vmware can handle this - though there are some tricks - you may still want to pass.
http://news.u32.net/articles/2006/07/18/running-vmware-on-a-physical-partition

cabbey

I'll ditto the parted/gparted success story, and I know dozens of folks at work that have resized their windows drives to fit linux side by side on corporate issue thinkpads. The big caveat that seems to not always gaurentee success, but does pretty much seem to gaurentee failure if you don't do it, is to fsck the drive from a boot cd or something before running the parted to resize it. Also emptying the trash and other things like that so as to make as much free space for it to work with as possible seems to help.

SloYerRoll wrote:

Anyone out there that can support this claim. I'm sure you can understand that I' weary of doing this to my main machine unless I know it will work.

I've tried to do similar. Linux handles it pretty well, windows, ugh, not so much. This was what eventually drove me to evict windows entirely from my last corporate issue thinkpad. Every time I booted into it natively or in the vm, if it had been running the other way around the last time, I had to "re-install" device drivers (usually just re-configure) and re-authorize the windows installation. Eventually it stopped accepting the key file and I had to call into MS to authorize it again. That was the last time I booted it "native" from there forward, it only booted from within the vmware session... and that only lasted a few weeks before I just said enough was enough.

SloYerRoll

gparted it is then!

Thanks guys for all your help. I'm writing this on my fresh install of Ubuntu!

So now I'm spending the evening running updates and the "must have's" I'm going to move this over to the Ubuntu forums though so I don't clog up the forum here anymore w/ non photo related stuff.

I'm SloYerRoll in the Ubuntu forums if anyone hangs over there.

Thanks again for all your help! D

All the best,
-Jon

SloYerRoll

BTW that Magic Cube and wiggly windows must not be bleeding edge anymore. (GeForce 8800GTX if anyone wanted to know)

I'm running 8 desktops and have an octagon cube (that video below x2)! Dude, I'm gonna figure out how to do a video grab on Ubuntu. This has got to be the coolest thing I've sen on my desktop in a looooong time!

Best,