John, I'm in almost the exact same predicament as you. I have a Sony HDR-SR11 and want to upload movies from it to SmugMug.
The good news is, I've figured out how to do this using only Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum. I simply import the m2t files from the camera into Vegas, then render them with "Make Movie" from the file menu. The "trick" was that I had to make a custom render template under the "Advanced Render" option in the "Make Movie - Render Settings" dialog. In brief, the video render options I selected were:
Type: Sony AVC (*.mp4, *.m2tx, *.avc)
Template: Custom
Video Format: AVC
Frame Size: (Custom frame size)
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Profile: Main
Entropy Coding: CABAC
Frame rate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Pixel Aspect: 1.0000
Bit rate: 4,000,000
The key here, really, is the AVC format, which encodes video in H.264. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can change the other parameters. I chose to render to 720p since that's SmugMug's max resolution.
I end up with an *.mp4 file I can upload to SmugMug without a hitch.
If you want to try it and need more info, let me know. I can give you a bit more of a step-by-step process with screen shots.
Cool. Thanks for the update. At the time I last did the research, I think only the pro version could actually save edited video as HD. After investing in an HD video camera, that seemed kind of silly and the pro version seemed ridiculously expensive for me needs. Either I misunderstood that limitation at the time or they've moved this capability into the Platinum version. I never really solved my problem (lots of unedited video from a trip to Kenya waiting for me to do something with) so I may give it a go with Vegas Platinum. Thanks for the info. If I run into any snags, I'll let you know.
I have some MOV files from Canon 5D2 and Canon 7D that I would like to make a movie from. The only movie editor I have is Windows Live Movie Maker (on my Windows 7x64 laptop) - which conveniently doesn't understand MOV format :-(.
Funnily, Windows Media Player plays them fine, both on XPx86 and W7x64.
So I need to convert my MOV files into something WMM would understand.
I tried a bunch of free converters: Format Factory, SUPER, Bink - some error out, others claim they convert 100%, but in fact they convert 1 second (or 1 frame) and then decide to stop.
At this point my only way to get them converted is to upload them to SM and then get back mp4. It works, but what a great waste of bandwidth and time.
Anybody had similar problem and found a better solution?
TIA!
And no, converting to Mac is not a viable option :-)
I have some MOV files from Canon 5D2 and Canon 7D that I would like to make a movie from. The only movie editor I have is Windows Live Movie Maker (on my Windows 7x64 laptop) - which conveniently doesn't understand MOV format :-(.
Funnily, Windows Media Player plays them fine, both on XPx86 and W7x64.
So I need to convert my MOV files into something WMM would understand.
I tried a bunch of free converters: Format Factory, SUPER, Bink - some error out, others claim they convert 100%, but in fact they convert 1 second (or 1 frame) and then decide to stop.
At this point my only way to get them converted is to upload them to SM and then get back mp4. It works, but what a great waste of bandwidth and time.
Anybody had similar problem and found a better solution?
TIA!
And no, converting to Mac is not a viable option :-)
MPEG Streamclip will work if you transcode to Motion JPEG. But, as I'm sure you know, that's a lossy conversion.
As far as I know, in Windows, there are only two methods to edit 5DII/7D files without a lossy intermediate format and neither is free. The first is to use Pinnacle as your editor. It's users claim it can edit the MOV files natively without an intermediate codec. The second is to use Cineform Neoscene ($129) to transcode to its 10-bit, lossless format. I know you can edit the Cineform files in Premier and Vegas. I'm not sure about Movie Maker, but I don't see why not. More info in this thread.
If you're OK with a bit of degradation, then MPEG Streamclip is the best free alternative I know of.
MPEG Streamclip will work if you transcode to Motion JPEG. But, as I'm sure you know, that's a lossy conversion.
As far as I know, in Windows, there are only two methods to edit 5DII/7D files without a lossy intermediate format and neither is free. The first is to use Pinnacle as your editor. It's users claim it can edit the MOV files natively without an intermediate codec. The second is to use Cineform Neoscene ($129) to transcode to its 10-bit, lossless format. I know you can edit the Cineform files in Premier and Vegas. I'm not sure about Movie Maker, but I don't see why not. More info in this thread.
If you're OK with a bit of degradation, then MPEG Streamclip is the best free alternative I know of.
Dunno about the Windows version, but the Mac version has plenty of good editing codecs.
I'd be interested to know if it's really all that different on the Windows side.
I got mpeg streamclip converted my MOV to AVI. Looks like the same quality to me.
AVI is not a codec and neither is Quicktime. Both are simply multimedia containers for various possible codecs. MOV for example can contain anything from DV to H.264 to uncompressed 1080p HD. The same goes for AVI, however - since I am a Mac user, I am not sure if AVI on the Windows sinde supports as many professional video codecs as Quicktime does.
So the question is, which codec did you use for your AVI files?
There might also be another solution. I spent many hours this week working on trying to convert a WebEx recording to a AVI or WMV that I could edit with my software (Camtasia). I found that Microsoft does have some other tools out there that helps with some of these transcoding. Rather than try to explain it, here is the link http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923946/ fixed my problem in about 30 minutes (rendering time for a 90 minute WebEx recording)
When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file?
I've been using adobe premiere 6.0 for the past 7 years or so to do that process.... fyi I havent used the program to do anything but make a AVI file for backup purposes, but soon I will start editing all those old home movies!
So I wonder if when I actually get to editing these videos will I be working with the best file possible ( "DV tape to AVI file using an old software program) or SHOULD I RE-DOWNLOAD from the old DV Tapes using a new program on a new super computer to get the best possible quality ??....
btw, I still haven't decided what program to use yet.
I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???...
btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?
When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file?
.....
I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???...
btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?
Well, I have to say, I am biased. I am a professional editor and I have been using Macs for the past 15 years. I do use Final Cut Pro on a daily basis for my editing work and I cannot imagine having to do the same things on a PC. (I used to have a Windows PC before I became an editor. In our company we use about 40 Macs and 3 PCs for the accounting department. Our IT people have to spend most of their time with the PCs. The Macs just work.)
First of all - what is not to understand about the pricing of Macs? Any Mac can edit HD video out of the box with no additional hardware needed, so it's just a matter of how extensively you're planning to edit video and what you expect of your editing system.
Without knowing what exactly you're plannig to do, I'd say iMacs make really terrific editing systems for the vast majority of people. They have a terrific screen and are quite powerful and cost the same (if not less) than an equally equipped PC. Plus: your'e getting the Mac operating system, which not only is immune to virus attacks, it's also incredibly easy to use.
If you want more specific information about editing software and Apple hardware, I'd be happy to help you along.
When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file?
I've been using adobe premiere 6.0 for the past 7 years or so to do that process.... fyi I havent used the program to do anything but make a AVI file for backup purposes, but soon I will start editing all those old home movies!
So I wonder if when I actually get to editing these videos will I be working with the best file possible ( "DV tape to AVI file using an old software program) or SHOULD I RE-DOWNLOAD from the old DV Tapes using a new program on a new super computer to get the best possible quality ??....
btw, I still haven't decided what program to use yet.
I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???...
btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?
SD DV is already compressed so that when you import the video stream from tape into the computer the "capture" software, or capture function of editing software, simply inserts the DV frames into an appropriate "wrapper". Any modern DV wrapper contains discrete video frames that are digitally identical to the video frames on the original source tape.
Re-compression only occurs when when editing software inserts transitions and performs video filtering, etc. Simple cuts only break the chain of video frames, but they do not re-compress.
The video wrapper is important in PC editing in that some wrappers allow certain features such as extremely long play times in a single file. Some video editing software can also be sensitive to the particular wrapper and only support certain types, so it's important to use the correct type in capture that is supported by the editing software. For modern Windows/PCs that is generally MS DV Type-2 in an AVI "container" file format.
I have 5 video editing machines that do a fine job with DV video capture and editing, and they date all the way back to Windows 98 and Pentium III and Athlon architecture. DV editing does not have to require that modern of a machine for capture or basic editing. Yes, Windows works fine.
The video files from a Canon 5D MKII use an MP4 type of compression in an MOV container that is much different from DV and 1080 x 1920 maximum resolution has 6 times the resolution of DV video format. This means that an older Windows machine, or older Mac for that matter, will struggle or fail to be able to adequately handle the video needs of a 5D MKII video. My XP based Pentium IV 3 Ghz and 2 GB RAM machine could not do it.
I upgraded to a Windows 7, i5 - 750 (quad core) based machine with 4 GB RAM and it handles the files nicely.
I just checked and the same machine is still available and the price has dropped $10.
I have tested both Sony Vegas Pro 9 and Corel VideoStudio Pro X3 and they are both good to handle 5D MKII files natively. Since the Corel software includes some very handy additional software that I use, and since I don't currently need all of the extra video tracks available in the Sony software, I'll probably purchase the Corel software (currently $70).
Well, I have to say, I am biased. I am a professional editor and I have been using Macs for the past 15 years. I do use Final Cut Pro on a daily basis for my editing work and I cannot imagine having to do the same things on a PC. (I used to have a Windows PC before I became an editor. In our company we use about 40 Macs and 3 PCs for the accounting department. Our IT people have to spend most of their time with the PCs. The Macs just work.)
First of all - what is not to understand about the pricing of Macs? Any Mac can edit HD video out of the box with no additional hardware needed, so it's just a matter of how extensively you're planning to edit video and what you expect of your editing system.
Without knowing what exactly you're plannig to do, I'd say iMacs make really terrific editing systems for the vast majority of people. They have a terrific screen and are quite powerful and cost the same (if not less) than an equally equipped PC. Plus: your'e getting the Mac operating system, which not only is immune to virus attacks, it's also incredibly easy to use.
If you want more specific information about editing software and Apple hardware, I'd be happy to help you along.
--- Markus ---
Thanks Markus, keep an eye out for my new thread I start today or tomorrow thats just for me and my ignorant questions (so not to get OT in this thread:D) I really will need to discuss this Mac thing further!
The video wrapper is important in PC editing in that some wrappers allow certain features such as extremely long play times in a single file. Some video editing software can also be sensitive to the particular wrapper and only support certain types, so it's important to use the correct type in capture that is supported by the editing software. For modern Windows/PCs that is generally MS DV Type-2 in an AVI "container" file format.
Ziggy, you really have helped me through a few grey areas!
I have no idea what format my camcorder records to DV tape (I don't even think there is a choice) but I just playback the stream to computer via firewire.
If I understand your comments correctly then the AVI file will have no quality issues due to the software but will be limited to what the camcorder transfers over to the computer and how it was recorded in the first place...
I really don't mind the quality of the AVI file as they sit now, I just didn't want to start editing with a AVI file I could easily re-do from the original DV tapes with new software.
Ziggy, you really have helped me through a few grey areas!
I have no idea what format my camcorder records to DV tape (I don't even think there is a choice) but I just playback the stream to computer via firewire.
If I understand your comments correctly then the AVI file will have no quality issues due to the software but will be limited to what the camcorder transfers over to the computer and how it was recorded in the first place...
I really don't mind the quality of the AVI file as they sit now, I just didn't want to start editing with a AVI file I could easily re-do from the original DV tapes with new software.
DV videotape is not a file, you may think of it as a stream of video data, with each video frame a discrete image.
I'll assume that you use DV-mini video tapes (the most popular type of DV video acquisition.) The video camera portion of your camcorder captures 30 frames per second at a constant size and bit rate. Each of those 30 frames per second is a discrete video frame and not linked or dependent on the surrounding frames. All compression and quantization is preformed by the capture components of the camcorder and only the discrete frames are recorded onto the video tape. The tape itself is the container, but the video stream can be started and stopped at any point on the tape simply by re-positioning the tape (using forward and reverse positioning of the tape.)
When you "transfer" the DV video stream onto a computer you choose software which has a "capture" function, which in turn "encapsulates" the video stream into a "wrapper" and "container", but the video stream of discrete video frames are digitally identical to the original frames on the DV videotape. The wrapper and container you choose should be compatible with the software you wish to use for editing, but the video frames, as long as you stay in a DV dialect codec, will remain untouched and digitally identical to the original DV videotape video frames. (The audio section is another matter entirely, however.) I generally choose to use the Microsoft (MS) DV Type-2 codec (wrapper) and AVI file format (container) for Windows use.
The capture method of the Canon 5D MKII, and all other video dSLRs as far as I am aware, is much different. The video stream is highly compressed and both wrapper and container are applied in the camera. You can literally just copy the resulting video file from the camera's memory card directly onto the computer hard drive. As long as the computer software you wish to use understands the file, you are generally good to go. Further conversion may have to be performed against the video for the purpose of editing and applying effects, transitions, filters and such, but the computer software (or multiple software) should take care of that.
As an aside, the compression system used by all video dSLRs is not one that results in discrete video frames, like the old DV format was. Unfortunately with the MPEG type of compression used in the video dSLRs each frame is generally only partial information and dependent on the video information of surrounding frames. The reasoning is that if part of a a scene can be repeated, it does not need to be recorded for each frame. Thus repeating scene information is considered redundant and only recorded when it actually changes. As you might guess this increases the processing load of the editing software and computer processor considerably.
I'll assume that you use DV-mini video tapes (the most popular type of DV video acquisition.) The video camera portion of your camcorder captures 30 frames per second at a constant size and bit rate.
I'm pretty sure DV is 29.97, at least that's what FCP calls it. A small, but important distinction.
I'm pretty sure DV is 29.97, at least that's what FCP calls it. A small, but important distinction.
Absolutely true.
The original US NTSC B&W standard was at 30 fps, but it was changed to 29.97 fps in 1953 to allow for a color subcarrier signal but maintain compatibility with existing B&W TV sets. (To this day I still don't understand the reasoning or technology for the change, but it does work.)
To be complete the DV system also includes a 720x576 resolution @ 25 fps PAL specification compatible with many European TV systems.
Frame rate is an important thing to make sure that is consistent or at least understood. While this might seem small, over the course of a few minutes it adds up to a frame or two. To be honest it has been so long since I did video that I don't remember the exact rate I think it is two frames every ten minutes. Don't tell my college professors....
Frame rate is an important thing to make sure that is consistent or at least understood. While this might seem small, over the course of a few minutes it adds up to a frame or two. To be honest it has been so long since I did video that I don't remember the exact rate I think it is two frames every ten minutes. Don't tell my college professors....
Since all editing programs that I know simply transfer the DV footage from your DV camcorder through firewire to your computer, I don't think one can make a mistake with frame rates. As long as you stay in DV, whatever your camera recorded at is what you get.
It's when you start transcoding from one format into another, that's when you have to be aware of special US video-friendly framerates such as 29.97 or 23.976. Transcoding would apply to working with editing-unfriendly H.264 codecs from your 5D or 7D for example - at least on the Mac side.
Droid X Android 720p upload quality
Question on conversions
I recently started shooting 720p video with a Droid X and noticed that regardless of what method I upload the video the quality and file size is always way less than what the original video is. The videos play fine even though they are a .3gp format, but how do I upload and keep the HD quality? The methods I have tried are using pixelpipe from the phone which I know uploaded full HD quality from my iPhone 4, and I have tried uploading through the browser after putting the video files on my mac but no difference in either way.
Thanks for your time.
Contact me or Tristan through the help desk. We need to take a look at the original videos before upload to see what might be going on. http://www.smugmug.com/help/emailreal
Windows Media Center & Movie Player won't read MOV files from 7D
I have opened a few MOV video files from the Canon 7D in Windows Movie Player and the playback is sketchy and garbled. Tried to open in Windows Media Center and she won't even recognize it, not even an option when I looked into default options. Things is a pal of mine has the same programs on damn near the same system and set-up and his read my files just fine. I was told by Dell I need the proper codecs but I am unable to find the correct ones that would allow me to view these MOV videos in those programs. I have imported and opened in Premier Pro and it looks and plays just fine. Any ideas what should be done here? I am starting to go crazy. Pleeeeaase.
I have opened a few MOV video files from the Canon 7D in Windows Movie Player and the playback is sketchy and garbled. Tried to open in Windows Media Center and she won't even recognize it, not even an option when I looked into default options. Things is a pal of mine has the same programs on damn near the same system and set-up and his read my files just fine. I was told by Dell I need the proper codecs but I am unable to find the correct ones that would allow me to view these MOV videos in those programs. I have imported and opened in Premier Pro and it looks and plays just fine. Any ideas what should be done here? I am starting to go crazy. Pleeeeaase.
Thanks Much!
-John
Go to Apple's website and download the free Quicktime Player for Windows. MOV files are quicktime files. The 7D encodes them with the H.264 codec, a standard video codec used by YouTube and many other sites. H.264 needs a relatively fast and new processor. If you're still seeing studdery playback with Quicktime Player for Windwos, it may be time for a comptuer upgrade.
Go to Apple's website and download the free Quicktime Player for Windows. MOV files are quicktime files. The 7D encodes them with the H.264 codec, a standard video codec used by YouTube and many other sites. H.264 needs a relatively fast and new processor. If you're still seeing studdery playback with Quicktime Player for Windwos, it may be time for a comptuer upgrade.
maaan, thats what i'm tryin to avoid. but it worked. I just don't get how a new Win7 i7 doesnt have the brains to read MOV and requires an Apple program.
maaan, thats what i'm tryin to avoid. but it worked. I just don't get how a new Win7 i7 doesnt have the brains to read MOV and requires an Apple program.
Because mov is an Apple invention (vs. wmv for Microsoft) and there are way too many competing options in video. Ask Apple why they don't support wmv. Same issue. Until this standard thing gets worked out, you often have to have multiple players to be able to play all the different formats.
maaan, thats what i'm tryin to avoid. but it worked. I just don't get how a new Win7 i7 doesnt have the brains to read MOV and requires an Apple program.
thanks btw
Well, FWIW, h.264 is not a codec that should be used for editing. So if your system plays it fine but chokes only when you're editing, it has more to do with that. Even Final Cut Pro can't edit with it natively, and that's Apples to Apples.
Use MPEG Streamclip to transcode the footage into something suitable for editing. I'm not sure what that is in the Windows world. For me it'd be Apple ProRes 422.
Well, FWIW, h.264 is not a codec that should be used for editing. So if your system plays it fine but chokes only when you're editing, it has more to do with that. Even Final Cut Pro can't edit with it natively, and that's Apples to Apples.
Use MPEG Streamclip to transcode the footage into something suitable for editing. I'm not sure what that is in the Windows world. For me it'd be Apple ProRes 422.
Nah, seems to work fine in Adobe Premiere Pro but just wouldn't play in Windows... QuickTime worked however.
maaan, thats what i'm tryin to avoid. but it worked. I just don't get how a new Win7 i7 doesnt have the brains to read MOV and requires an Apple program.
thanks btw
What's wrong with using an Apple program on a Windows machine? It's free and works great.
Because mov is an Apple invention (vs. wmv for Microsoft) and there are way too many competing options in video. Ask Apple why they don't support wmv. Same issue. Until this standard thing gets worked out, you often have to have multiple players to be able to play all the different formats.
Quicktime is not a proprietary video format - Microsoft's WMV is - that's why almost nobody in the professional video and film world uses it. Quicktime on the other hand is just a media wrapper that can play back a large amount of video compression codecs natively (H.264, Motion JPEG etc.) and can even handle WMV files on the Mac side (via a free plugin).
Flash video, by the way, is a media wrapper too that can handle various video codecs for playback. Most of the flash videos that you find on the web these days were in fact encoded with H.264 (Youtube for example). So your Windows machine needs an Adobe program to play back that Youtube file. Yikes.... ;-)
What's wrong with using an Apple program on a Windows machine? It's free and works great.
Because once you install it, it bugs you regularly to install an update and there's no way to get it to stop doing that and when you do accept the update, it tries to put lots of other Apple crap on your computer (Safari, MobileMe, iTunes, etc...), puts icons in places I don't want them on my computer, installs stuff in my startup folder, etc... It also tries to take over for other video types which work perfectly fine without it. The fact is that having lots of video players competing on your computer to be the preferred player is far less reliable than having fewer.
Comments
Cool. Thanks for the update. At the time I last did the research, I think only the pro version could actually save edited video as HD. After investing in an HD video camera, that seemed kind of silly and the pro version seemed ridiculously expensive for me needs. Either I misunderstood that limitation at the time or they've moved this capability into the Platinum version. I never really solved my problem (lots of unedited video from a trip to Kenya waiting for me to do something with) so I may give it a go with Vegas Platinum. Thanks for the info. If I run into any snags, I'll let you know.
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I have some MOV files from Canon 5D2 and Canon 7D that I would like to make a movie from. The only movie editor I have is Windows Live Movie Maker (on my Windows 7x64 laptop) - which conveniently doesn't understand MOV format :-(.
Funnily, Windows Media Player plays them fine, both on XPx86 and W7x64.
So I need to convert my MOV files into something WMM would understand.
I tried a bunch of free converters: Format Factory, SUPER, Bink - some error out, others claim they convert 100%, but in fact they convert 1 second (or 1 frame) and then decide to stop.
At this point my only way to get them converted is to upload them to SM and then get back mp4. It works, but what a great waste of bandwidth and time.
Anybody had similar problem and found a better solution?
TIA!
And no, converting to Mac is not a viable option :-)
mpeg streamclip
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EDIT: Finally, something that works! Thank you David!
As far as I know, in Windows, there are only two methods to edit 5DII/7D files without a lossy intermediate format and neither is free. The first is to use Pinnacle as your editor. It's users claim it can edit the MOV files natively without an intermediate codec. The second is to use Cineform Neoscene ($129) to transcode to its 10-bit, lossless format. I know you can edit the Cineform files in Premier and Vegas. I'm not sure about Movie Maker, but I don't see why not. More info in this thread.
If you're OK with a bit of degradation, then MPEG Streamclip is the best free alternative I know of.
www.ackersphotography.com
Dunno about the Windows version, but the Mac version has plenty of good editing codecs.
I'd be interested to know if it's really all that different on the Windows side.
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AVI is not a codec and neither is Quicktime. Both are simply multimedia containers for various possible codecs. MOV for example can contain anything from DV to H.264 to uncompressed 1080p HD. The same goes for AVI, however - since I am a Mac user, I am not sure if AVI on the Windows sinde supports as many professional video codecs as Quicktime does.
So the question is, which codec did you use for your AVI files?
--- Markus ---
Pictures | Website | Blog | Twitter | Contact
When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file?
I've been using adobe premiere 6.0 for the past 7 years or so to do that process.... fyi I havent used the program to do anything but make a AVI file for backup purposes, but soon I will start editing all those old home movies!
So I wonder if when I actually get to editing these videos will I be working with the best file possible ( "DV tape to AVI file using an old software program) or SHOULD I RE-DOWNLOAD from the old DV Tapes using a new program on a new super computer to get the best possible quality ??....
btw, I still haven't decided what program to use yet.
I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???...
btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?
Well, I have to say, I am biased. I am a professional editor and I have been using Macs for the past 15 years. I do use Final Cut Pro on a daily basis for my editing work and I cannot imagine having to do the same things on a PC. (I used to have a Windows PC before I became an editor. In our company we use about 40 Macs and 3 PCs for the accounting department. Our IT people have to spend most of their time with the PCs. The Macs just work.)
First of all - what is not to understand about the pricing of Macs? Any Mac can edit HD video out of the box with no additional hardware needed, so it's just a matter of how extensively you're planning to edit video and what you expect of your editing system.
Without knowing what exactly you're plannig to do, I'd say iMacs make really terrific editing systems for the vast majority of people. They have a terrific screen and are quite powerful and cost the same (if not less) than an equally equipped PC. Plus: your'e getting the Mac operating system, which not only is immune to virus attacks, it's also incredibly easy to use.
If you want more specific information about editing software and Apple hardware, I'd be happy to help you along.
--- Markus ---
SD DV is already compressed so that when you import the video stream from tape into the computer the "capture" software, or capture function of editing software, simply inserts the DV frames into an appropriate "wrapper". Any modern DV wrapper contains discrete video frames that are digitally identical to the video frames on the original source tape.
Re-compression only occurs when when editing software inserts transitions and performs video filtering, etc. Simple cuts only break the chain of video frames, but they do not re-compress.
The video wrapper is important in PC editing in that some wrappers allow certain features such as extremely long play times in a single file. Some video editing software can also be sensitive to the particular wrapper and only support certain types, so it's important to use the correct type in capture that is supported by the editing software. For modern Windows/PCs that is generally MS DV Type-2 in an AVI "container" file format.
I have 5 video editing machines that do a fine job with DV video capture and editing, and they date all the way back to Windows 98 and Pentium III and Athlon architecture. DV editing does not have to require that modern of a machine for capture or basic editing. Yes, Windows works fine.
The video files from a Canon 5D MKII use an MP4 type of compression in an MOV container that is much different from DV and 1080 x 1920 maximum resolution has 6 times the resolution of DV video format. This means that an older Windows machine, or older Mac for that matter, will struggle or fail to be able to adequately handle the video needs of a 5D MKII video. My XP based Pentium IV 3 Ghz and 2 GB RAM machine could not do it.
I upgraded to a Windows 7, i5 - 750 (quad core) based machine with 4 GB RAM and it handles the files nicely.
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=163249
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229130
I just checked and the same machine is still available and the price has dropped $10.
I have tested both Sony Vegas Pro 9 and Corel VideoStudio Pro X3 and they are both good to handle 5D MKII files natively. Since the Corel software includes some very handy additional software that I use, and since I don't currently need all of the extra video tracks available in the Sony software, I'll probably purchase the Corel software (currently $70).
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1378070&postcount=3
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1386254&postcount=5
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Thanks Markus, keep an eye out for my new thread I start today or tomorrow thats just for me and my ignorant questions (so not to get OT in this thread:D) I really will need to discuss this Mac thing further!
Ziggy, you really have helped me through a few grey areas!
I have no idea what format my camcorder records to DV tape (I don't even think there is a choice) but I just playback the stream to computer via firewire.
If I understand your comments correctly then the AVI file will have no quality issues due to the software but will be limited to what the camcorder transfers over to the computer and how it was recorded in the first place...
I really don't mind the quality of the AVI file as they sit now, I just didn't want to start editing with a AVI file I could easily re-do from the original DV tapes with new software.
DV videotape is not a file, you may think of it as a stream of video data, with each video frame a discrete image.
I'll assume that you use DV-mini video tapes (the most popular type of DV video acquisition.) The video camera portion of your camcorder captures 30 frames per second at a constant size and bit rate. Each of those 30 frames per second is a discrete video frame and not linked or dependent on the surrounding frames. All compression and quantization is preformed by the capture components of the camcorder and only the discrete frames are recorded onto the video tape. The tape itself is the container, but the video stream can be started and stopped at any point on the tape simply by re-positioning the tape (using forward and reverse positioning of the tape.)
When you "transfer" the DV video stream onto a computer you choose software which has a "capture" function, which in turn "encapsulates" the video stream into a "wrapper" and "container", but the video stream of discrete video frames are digitally identical to the original frames on the DV videotape. The wrapper and container you choose should be compatible with the software you wish to use for editing, but the video frames, as long as you stay in a DV dialect codec, will remain untouched and digitally identical to the original DV videotape video frames. (The audio section is another matter entirely, however.) I generally choose to use the Microsoft (MS) DV Type-2 codec (wrapper) and AVI file format (container) for Windows use.
The capture method of the Canon 5D MKII, and all other video dSLRs as far as I am aware, is much different. The video stream is highly compressed and both wrapper and container are applied in the camera. You can literally just copy the resulting video file from the camera's memory card directly onto the computer hard drive. As long as the computer software you wish to use understands the file, you are generally good to go. Further conversion may have to be performed against the video for the purpose of editing and applying effects, transitions, filters and such, but the computer software (or multiple software) should take care of that.
As an aside, the compression system used by all video dSLRs is not one that results in discrete video frames, like the old DV format was. Unfortunately with the MPEG type of compression used in the video dSLRs each frame is generally only partial information and dependent on the video information of surrounding frames. The reasoning is that if part of a a scene can be repeated, it does not need to be recorded for each frame. Thus repeating scene information is considered redundant and only recorded when it actually changes. As you might guess this increases the processing load of the editing software and computer processor considerably.
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I'm pretty sure DV is 29.97, at least that's what FCP calls it. A small, but important distinction.
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Absolutely true.
The original US NTSC B&W standard was at 30 fps, but it was changed to 29.97 fps in 1953 to allow for a color subcarrier signal but maintain compatibility with existing B&W TV sets. (To this day I still don't understand the reasoning or technology for the change, but it does work.)
To be complete the DV system also includes a 720x576 resolution @ 25 fps PAL specification compatible with many European TV systems.
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Since all editing programs that I know simply transfer the DV footage from your DV camcorder through firewire to your computer, I don't think one can make a mistake with frame rates. As long as you stay in DV, whatever your camera recorded at is what you get.
It's when you start transcoding from one format into another, that's when you have to be aware of special US video-friendly framerates such as 29.97 or 23.976. Transcoding would apply to working with editing-unfriendly H.264 codecs from your 5D or 7D for example - at least on the Mac side.
Question on conversions
I recently started shooting 720p video with a Droid X and noticed that regardless of what method I upload the video the quality and file size is always way less than what the original video is. The videos play fine even though they are a .3gp format, but how do I upload and keep the HD quality? The methods I have tried are using pixelpipe from the phone which I know uploaded full HD quality from my iPhone 4, and I have tried uploading through the browser after putting the video files on my mac but no difference in either way.
Thanks for your time.
Mike
http://blog.mikejeide.com
Contact me or Tristan through the help desk. We need to take a look at the original videos before upload to see what might be going on. http://www.smugmug.com/help/emailreal
http://help.smugmug.com
I have opened a few MOV video files from the Canon 7D in Windows Movie Player and the playback is sketchy and garbled. Tried to open in Windows Media Center and she won't even recognize it, not even an option when I looked into default options. Things is a pal of mine has the same programs on damn near the same system and set-up and his read my files just fine. I was told by Dell I need the proper codecs but I am unable to find the correct ones that would allow me to view these MOV videos in those programs. I have imported and opened in Premier Pro and it looks and plays just fine. Any ideas what should be done here? I am starting to go crazy. Pleeeeaase.
Thanks Much!
-John
http://www.johnparliphotography.com/
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Go to Apple's website and download the free Quicktime Player for Windows. MOV files are quicktime files. The 7D encodes them with the H.264 codec, a standard video codec used by YouTube and many other sites. H.264 needs a relatively fast and new processor. If you're still seeing studdery playback with Quicktime Player for Windwos, it may be time for a comptuer upgrade.
maaan, thats what i'm tryin to avoid. but it worked. I just don't get how a new Win7 i7 doesnt have the brains to read MOV and requires an Apple program.
thanks btw
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Joliet-IL/John-Parli-Photography/235669552864
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Well, FWIW, h.264 is not a codec that should be used for editing. So if your system plays it fine but chokes only when you're editing, it has more to do with that. Even Final Cut Pro can't edit with it natively, and that's Apples to Apples.
Use MPEG Streamclip to transcode the footage into something suitable for editing. I'm not sure what that is in the Windows world. For me it'd be Apple ProRes 422.
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Nah, seems to work fine in Adobe Premiere Pro but just wouldn't play in Windows... QuickTime worked however.
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What's wrong with using an Apple program on a Windows machine? It's free and works great.
Quicktime is not a proprietary video format - Microsoft's WMV is - that's why almost nobody in the professional video and film world uses it. Quicktime on the other hand is just a media wrapper that can play back a large amount of video compression codecs natively (H.264, Motion JPEG etc.) and can even handle WMV files on the Mac side (via a free plugin).
Flash video, by the way, is a media wrapper too that can handle various video codecs for playback. Most of the flash videos that you find on the web these days were in fact encoded with H.264 (Youtube for example). So your Windows machine needs an Adobe program to play back that Youtube file. Yikes.... ;-)
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