First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has written and thanked me for what doing what I did. It may sound weird but this has actually taken a huge burden off my shoulders.
Secondly, I would like to personally thank Erik, Andy and Shay for doing an amazing job in organizing this brilliant competitionbowbowbow
Is there anything else online that even comes close to this competition, where people from around the world come together for one purpose?
Maybe we should all stop complaining for a moment and ask what can "I" do? I don't know if I can help out in any way, but surely two or three people who have other full time jobs should not have take the whole weight of organizing the competition by themselves.
From reading all the posts over the last year, from the complaints about lack of transparency about judging, to the questioning about the judges choices for each theme, I am amazed that the organizers stuck with it. I have no problem with people complaining, but with every complaint there should also be a solution offered.
That said, from experience from this approach in my business, the general trap most people fall into is not knowing the full picture and what seems to be a good solution may not be practical for a numbers of reasons. However submitting problems with solutions makes it a lot harder for people to complain unconstructively.
Lastly, Erik you are in no way a "jerk" in any sense of the word, however I do question you sense of taste in eyewear
Lastly, Erik you are in no way a "jerk" in any sense of the word, however I do question you sense of taste in eyewear
Yeah so do I... Those bug eye shades aren't really working out!
"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!"
The ploy was to get more people into Dgrin, and get Dgrinners to vote for the best photo they believed to be. At least that's what I got from the statement.
First to Peter, whose thread this is congrats, on a wonderful entry.
Now as for LPS. I don't care much for photography contests but as these contests go LPS is one of the better ones I've seen. The contest is supposed to challenge us and to grow our photography. From the shots entered I would have to say its been a rousing success in that area. My congrats to all of LPS's participants.
I had hoped that LPS would attract more shooters to Dgrin and to grow what I think is the best photography site on the net and it seems to have done that also.
Finally for LPS to have any integrity the results of the contest should be based on the subjective merits of the images entered and not on how well anyone or anyone's friends "campaigned". When we started to see votes coming in that appeared to reflect the latter we made a decision on the voting criteria.
LPS wil continue and we all strive to make it fun, challenging, and as fair as any of these frigging, meshugas can be.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
because what Joe said basically takes away from the excellent batch of finalists, and Vandana's stunning winner, and that my LPS friends, is a really, really crappy thing to do!
Hey Erik, I did no such thing. I simply stated my opinion. You on the other hand took it upon yourself to make the following two statements
Actually, I'll be the first to say, that might not happen... if we're gonna do it again, we're gonna do it right.
By saying that you opened the door to all kinds of questions as to what was done wrong which questions the validity of the whole contest in general doesn't it?
And then you went and said this
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Which once again raised all sorts of questions, so I'll quote you again.
I would be shocked if I'm the only one offended by comments like that above.
Those two statements by you opened the door to any and all comments in regards to this. When I'm wrong I apologize, not in this case. How about you? It wouldn't have mattered who won this contest. The questions are there by your statements and yours alone. So don't point a finger at me and state that I took something away from anyone, you did that all by yourself.
Joe
So sad. Look, you all can gnash your teeth about this all you want!
Running this contest is hard, we have lots of people telling us what to do
There is NO DOUBT as to the winner of the LPS.
Did we (me, Erik, others) learn something about how we'll do the rules? You bet. Have we made mistakes? You bet. We learn from them. We've posted as much before.
Can't we keep in mind that comments in this thread are really like a conversation round a big table. A floated idea doesn't have to be taken as an attack. Just take it as a brainstorm.... How many of us make comments in our daily lives that are truly 100% considered? If our ideas were 100% considered, we wouldn't need to say anything at all....
So, lets have LPS-II be a contest exactly like LPS-I, but have absolutely NO prizes except for the bragging rights after each round. I think that everyone serious about their growth as a photographer will stick around no matter what the prizes....
Can't we keep in mind that comments in this thread are really like a conversation round a big table. A floated idea doesn't have to be taken as an attack. Just take it as a brainstorm.... I think that everyone serious about their growth as a photographer will stick around no matter what the prizes....
Yes, I too feel a certain type of censorship operates from some of the DGrin crew. I feel it is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and respect all opinions/reactions/musings/desires/concerns/etc. Though some of the DGrin crew would seem to like the "official" view to be the only one to have air time, it is obvious that the DGrin creature has more than one mind. Simplify multidimensionality and you have everyone wearing forced faces orchestrated by the big brother, blah, bland, bloodless and boring. There are rules for posting, and they can be applied, but none of them require that we don't discuss things. People discuss things because they are important to them. What is important to them can't be dictated by someone else. "Move on..." to what? Conformity? I hope not!!
So, I don't like it that some missives from above seem sometimes to want to make some people feel bad about putting in their bit. Particularly since in the same breath more people are being encouraged to register and become members and contribute. There's a confusion at the bottom of that. There's no DGrin without real people to be here, and real people have minds and voices of their own!
Prizes or no prizes, there's no LPS without us members.
I have read many comments from members in various places in DGrin which express the sentiment that fellowship, participation and learning are the real prizes of competing. There is no logical reason why having nice material prizes as well compromises those others.
DGrin is business driven. This is a fact for all of us not to forget. If you don't like the product you don't take it. You can't be forced to.
But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email
Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.
I just won't stand for the bashing of the winner or the finalists
Well, I certainly agree with you there!! The winner has won and has been congratulated!! I am very happy for that person, and with my consolation prize. Let's move on to LPS2 and all the excitement, striving and achieving, not to mention controversy, but most of all wonderful photos, it is sure to bring.
But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email
Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.
Quite right too! I like to have the occasional moan but have always done so via the forum, if you've got a problem, at least have the courage to discuss it openly.
A free to enter contest, with big prizes, lots of great people and feedback...do I feel I have a right to complain? Nope. Sure, I can whine along with the best of them, but I don't think it's actually justified...really. Shoot or get off the pot, so to speak. Quite frankly, as far as judging goes, I think Dgrin has the right to say, "We'll line 'em up, put on a blindfold and throw a dart to determine the winner." Perhaps more people would feel that were fair? (You know there will be at least one!)
I love this contest, despite any "flaws" and can't wait for the next round. I do wish Shay were still around, but I also want and to be a size 2 and 21 again. Some things in life just need to be embraced as they are.:D
Quite frankly, as far as judging goes, I think Dgrin has the right to say, "We'll line 'em up, put on a blindfold and throw a dart to determine the winner."
Ouch, that sounds painful?!
But, yes of course it's their right, but WE supply the CONSEQUENCES of that right
And "take it or leave it" is not regarded as an attitude which grows business!
Yes, I too feel a certain type of censorship operates from some of the DGrin crew.
I thought my post was very clear. Above was the lead sentence in a reply refering to what I said there. I just want to say unequivocally that there was neither in either my post nor my mind anything that even hinted at censorship of any kind from any of the Dgrin moderators or it's forum participants. You were not agreeing with anything that came from me.
And by the way, Pemmett, you didn't offend me in any way. To me it's like the golfer coming out of the woods and saying he moved the ball by mistake and needed to assess himself a penalty. I wouldn't have ever known.. You have my respect! I haven't chimed in with forgiveness because you simply don't need it!
Now, back to the showring here at Pine Top Farm!!!
I thought my post was very clear. Above was the lead sentence in a reply refering to what I said there. I just want to say unequivocally that there was neither in either my post nor my mind anything that even hinted at censorship of any kind from any of the Dgrin moderators or it's forum participants. You were not agreeing with anything that came from me.
And by the way, Pemmett, you didn't offend me in any way. To me it's like the golfer coming out of the woods and saying he moved the ball by mistake and needed to assess himself a penalty. I wouldn't have ever known.. You have my respect! I haven't chimed in with forgiveness because you simply don't need it!
Now, back to the showring here at Pine Top Farm!!!
I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. You make clear what you said does not imply what I interpreted it to do. My meanings are all my own. All is well!
Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread from a few of Vandana's competitors.
I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.
Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread from a few of Vandana's competitors.
I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.
Gus, I offered my congratulations to V over on the Smugmug side in the Daily Photo gallery - as did others...and I'm sure there probably were some behind the scenes comunications too.
Peter...peace be with you, you have a very good heart .
Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread from a few of Vandana's competitors.
I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.
I am one of the guilty parties here. As an explanation (but not an excuse), I'll say my family and I have been beset by a double whammy of out of town visitors and the flu over the last week and a bit. As such, I am a bit behind on a great number of things.
As for the OP:
Peter, I am sure personal loyalty of one sort or another played a role in many of the votes on many of the photographs. That, I think, is both inevitable and, to some degree, appropriate. Any serious gallery will ask to review of a portfolio of work rather than a single artwork because one piece, by itself, does not say enough about an artist to make a reasonable judgement. In this context of LPS and this forum, I think the loyalty factor serves to take into account the overall impact of the photographer's body of work. My personal interpretation of the intent of the competition is that voter bais is expected but voter predecision is a problem. Which was it in your case? I can't judge but, in that context, the fact that your friends, who believe in you and your work, took the time to register and vote doesn't seem so inappropriate.
The forum admin can definitely create a minimal level of membership before members can vote. They can do it with a minimum time (say thirty days) or minimum posts. Some vbulletin forums use "reputation", but it tends to reflect a forum popularity contest. Personally, I don't mind the posts minimum, but it has to be lower than 100. There are people who seem to have all kinds of time on their hands and really run up the posts -- (sometimes of the kinda empty variety), and then their are others, that don't even check into dGrin every day, yet we are sincere in contributing.
Comments
I saw your comment, thanks, but you asked a question:
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
There seemed to be a contradiction...
Oooh! "Jerk" is such an ugly word...
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Secondly, I would like to personally thank Erik, Andy and Shay for doing an amazing job in organizing this brilliant competition
Is there anything else online that even comes close to this competition, where people from around the world come together for one purpose?
Maybe we should all stop complaining for a moment and ask what can "I" do? I don't know if I can help out in any way, but surely two or three people who have other full time jobs should not have take the whole weight of organizing the competition by themselves.
From reading all the posts over the last year, from the complaints about lack of transparency about judging, to the questioning about the judges choices for each theme, I am amazed that the organizers stuck with it. I have no problem with people complaining, but with every complaint there should also be a solution offered.
That said, from experience from this approach in my business, the general trap most people fall into is not knowing the full picture and what seems to be a good solution may not be practical for a numbers of reasons. However submitting problems with solutions makes it a lot harder for people to complain unconstructively.
Lastly, Erik you are in no way a "jerk" in any sense of the word, however I do question you sense of taste in eyewear
My images | My blog | My free course
Yeah so do I... Those bug eye shades aren't really working out!
The ploy was to get more people into Dgrin, and get Dgrinners to vote for the best photo they believed to be. At least that's what I got from the statement.
www.tednghiem.com
Now as for LPS. I don't care much for photography contests but as these contests go LPS is one of the better ones I've seen. The contest is supposed to challenge us and to grow our photography. From the shots entered I would have to say its been a rousing success in that area. My congrats to all of LPS's participants.
I had hoped that LPS would attract more shooters to Dgrin and to grow what I think is the best photography site on the net and it seems to have done that also.
Finally for LPS to have any integrity the results of the contest should be based on the subjective merits of the images entered and not on how well anyone or anyone's friends "campaigned". When we started to see votes coming in that appeared to reflect the latter we made a decision on the voting criteria.
LPS wil continue and we all strive to make it fun, challenging, and as fair as any of these frigging, meshugas can be.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Running this contest is hard, we have lots of people telling us what to do
There is NO DOUBT as to the winner of the LPS.
Did we (me, Erik, others) learn something about how we'll do the rules? You bet. Have we made mistakes? You bet. We learn from them. We've posted as much before.
Let's move on people.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
So, lets have LPS-II be a contest exactly like LPS-I, but have absolutely NO prizes except for the bragging rights after each round. I think that everyone serious about their growth as a photographer will stick around no matter what the prizes....
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Yes, I too feel a certain type of censorship operates from some of the DGrin crew. I feel it is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and respect all opinions/reactions/musings/desires/concerns/etc. Though some of the DGrin crew would seem to like the "official" view to be the only one to have air time, it is obvious that the DGrin creature has more than one mind. Simplify multidimensionality and you have everyone wearing forced faces orchestrated by the big brother, blah, bland, bloodless and boring. There are rules for posting, and they can be applied, but none of them require that we don't discuss things. People discuss things because they are important to them. What is important to them can't be dictated by someone else. "Move on..." to what? Conformity? I hope not!!
So, I don't like it that some missives from above seem sometimes to want to make some people feel bad about putting in their bit. Particularly since in the same breath more people are being encouraged to register and become members and contribute. There's a confusion at the bottom of that. There's no DGrin without real people to be here, and real people have minds and voices of their own!
Prizes or no prizes, there's no LPS without us members.
I have read many comments from members in various places in DGrin which express the sentiment that fellowship, participation and learning are the real prizes of competing. There is no logical reason why having nice material prizes as well compromises those others.
DGrin is business driven. This is a fact for all of us not to forget. If you don't like the product you don't take it. You can't be forced to.
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Not at all.
But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email
Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.
I just won't stand for the bashing of the winner or the finalists
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Well, I certainly agree with you there!! The winner has won and has been congratulated!! I am very happy for that person, and with my consolation prize. Let's move on to LPS2 and all the excitement, striving and achieving, not to mention controversy, but most of all wonderful photos, it is sure to bring.
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Quite right too! I like to have the occasional moan but have always done so via the forum, if you've got a problem, at least have the courage to discuss it openly.
Charlie
I love this contest, despite any "flaws" and can't wait for the next round. I do wish Shay were still around, but I also want and to be a size 2 and 21 again. Some things in life just need to be embraced as they are.:D
Ouch, that sounds painful?!
But, yes of course it's their right, but WE supply the CONSEQUENCES of that right
And "take it or leave it" is not regarded as an attitude which grows business!
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
I thought my post was very clear. Above was the lead sentence in a reply refering to what I said there. I just want to say unequivocally that there was neither in either my post nor my mind anything that even hinted at censorship of any kind from any of the Dgrin moderators or it's forum participants. You were not agreeing with anything that came from me.
And by the way, Pemmett, you didn't offend me in any way. To me it's like the golfer coming out of the woods and saying he moved the ball by mistake and needed to assess himself a penalty. I wouldn't have ever known.. You have my respect! I haven't chimed in with forgiveness because you simply don't need it!
Now, back to the showring here at Pine Top Farm!!!
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. You make clear what you said does not imply what I interpreted it to do. My meanings are all my own. All is well!
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Kumbaya... kumbaya...
Huh? Oh.. what?
Right. Pemmett, I haven't chimed in to forgive you, either, because I don't think you violated any rules. However, since you ask for it, I'll give it.
Whew! That was easy. I wish all forgiveness matters were that easy...
www.feliciabphotography.com
I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.
Gus, I offered my congratulations to V over on the Smugmug side in the Daily Photo gallery - as did others...and I'm sure there probably were some behind the scenes comunications too.
Peter...peace be with you, you have a very good heart
I am one of the guilty parties here. As an explanation (but not an excuse), I'll say my family and I have been beset by a double whammy of out of town visitors and the flu over the last week and a bit. As such, I am a bit behind on a great number of things.
As for the OP:
Peter, I am sure personal loyalty of one sort or another played a role in many of the votes on many of the photographs. That, I think, is both inevitable and, to some degree, appropriate. Any serious gallery will ask to review of a portfolio of work rather than a single artwork because one piece, by itself, does not say enough about an artist to make a reasonable judgement. In this context of LPS and this forum, I think the loyalty factor serves to take into account the overall impact of the photographer's body of work. My personal interpretation of the intent of the competition is that voter bais is expected but voter predecision is a problem. Which was it in your case? I can't judge but, in that context, the fact that your friends, who believe in you and your work, took the time to register and vote doesn't seem so inappropriate.
www.steveboothphotography.com
Pool/Billiards specific...
www.poolinaction.com
I would probably ask my friends to vote as well not thinking that having unbiased votes are the only votes that really matter win or loose.
Please continue to stay onboard and particapate in every aspect and benefit this great forum community has to offer:ivar.
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
Some time away from Digital Grin , and look at all the drama I have missed !!!
It take a lot of courage to apologize like that to the OP . Let's hope all this soap opera stuff does not lure anyone away from a great site .
http://wildwally.smugmug.com/