Playing ferocious

rutt · March 3, 2008

I have a 6 month old puppy and his favorite game is "ferocious". If you've had a young dog, you probably know this game. Good dogs only play it with other dogs, not with people. And it is certainly a game.

Anyway, there is this picture I've been trying (and mostly failing) to get. Photography might not even be the right medium. Maybe an animated cartoon with motion lines.

Here is an example, not as good as I want, but along the right lines:

This was shot with indirect flash at "puppy kindergarten graduation", not the best venue for many many reasons. The version above is a very close crop and got my best (rusty) post technique for realism.

Because what I'm looking for is sort of cartoonish, I also tried a NonPhotoRealistic approach:

Does this work at all?

In any case, I welcome ideas of how to get this shot for real. Ideas about angle, venue, time of day. Motion blur? How not to get bit?

I would have posted in the Whipping Post except the rules are too restrictive there. But I hope for that kind of honesty.

Thanks for the help.

Antonio Correia · March 3, 2008

I find very difficult to give you an advice, because I have seen that you are an expert in photography and I am not. But let me try, as this is the reason why I am posting.

Late evenning, light throught a large window or outside for low light. Climb to a table or a scarfold to get the dogs from top, hight above.
Get a flash - me, ST-E2 and flashes - and give some light from the opposite sites. Cross light: nature and flash or flashes.

This position of shooting, not very orthodox, will alow you to stay out of the game and will give you a rather large DoF.

Using HSS or Slow Shutter can be an option.

Slow speeds will transmit movement. If you can use a monopod it will help you capturing the dogs in motion ...

Needless to say AI Servo, bla, bla ...

To attract the dogs you can use a small tennis ball or stick for them to compete about getting the object.

The young dog looks like a Rottvailer and it is not too much to say that you have to be very carefull ...

pathfinder · March 3, 2008

Hi John,

I think Antonio has made some very good suggestions - Cross lighting with flash will create nice controlled contrast ratios, and allow capturing the canines sharply without a fast shutter speed unless desired.

'Ferocious' is Copper's favorite game. She is no longer a puppy but still loves to play. 'Ferocious' always begins with both paws stretched out straight and slapped flat on the floor, with her head very low to the ground, and her haunches up high. Frequently she runs toward you and pounces into this posture.

This behaviour is universal dog language for "Let's Play!" When two dogs get going at this, they can sound real scary if you've never experienced it, but most pups learn very early that when playing you do not really bite.

Copper is quite willing to play this with me too, as she does not get to play with other dogs frequently enough. She does not do it with guests. I get on all fours and even mimic her posture and she replies in kind. She loves it when I do this. When I play like this with Copper, she growls and hisses and raises the fur on her back like she is deadly serious, and has frightened some guests at times, but she has never, ever harmed me in the slightest.

I think if you could set up cross lighting with two flashes and then shoot this from ground level down where the dogs are so that you can see their eyes and their teeth, this might make a very powerful image ( it might actually frighten some folks who do not understand it ). Perhaps the dogs could be on a raised platform like a stage or boxing ring, so that you could shoot from a low perspective without breaking your neck, or being bitten by your playmates.

Once you have your shooting position and flash settings worked out - ETTL with Manual Mode, you can then decide whether you want to drag the shutter or even use second curtain flash for those cartoonish effects you were asking about.

These kind of shots have the potential to be misunderstood of course. Some dogs can sound extremely serious with this kind of play ( Copper sounds deadly at times

) and images like this will need to be explained so that no one thinks this is a real dog fight. A recent Pro football player had problems along this line with real dog fights. Just a thought John.

Actually, shooting this behavior from a low angle with controlled lighting, should be rather like shooting ballet I would think, only with lots stronger, faster light. Some unpredictability, but that is always true of great performers, isn't it? Whether human or canine.:D

For those who are recently new to dgrin, and don't know, rutt has an excellent collection of photographs of the Boston ballet that is to die for in his smugmug gallery.

rutt · March 3, 2008

Thanks, guys, I like the idea of shooting down. My natural tendency is to try to get the camera angle low, but in this case maybe I'll get more of what I want from above.

I'm not sure how much control I have over venue. It might have to be at the park or beach this summer. The situation there is fluid to say the least and flashes are going to be a problem.

Fortunately my puppy is Hugo, the chocolate lab, not the Prince, the rottweiler. Prince is a very nice dog, but I could tell at puppy kindergarten that he is a bigger handful than my dog.

Jim, thanks for the clue about playing ferocious myself. I'm going to try it tonight. Maybe by participating, I'll get a better idea how to shoot it.

pathfinder · March 3, 2008

John,

With a couple Gorilla pods, or some bungee cords, you can mount speedlites almost anywhere these days - say from a few handy tree branches in the park? I don't think light stands would be a good idea for this kind of activity, but a pair of 580exs, with a 2:1 ratio, fired by either PWs, or an ST-E2 should help capture detail that will be missed in the shade, and the darker tones of their fur. One 580 could just be camera mounted with a 430 used off camera as the mainlight also.

When playing 'ferocious', start gently and make sure your canine companion has fully completed his courtesy lessons. I have read somewhere that dogs learn to inhibit their biting with play by remaining with their litter mates for 8 weeks or so. But if removed sooner than 6 weeks, they may not learn to inhibit their bite reflexes.

Copper is a small dog, about 40 pounds, so she never really has any doubt who is the alpha dog in our relationship. I am the alpha dog.

But canine play does always respect the dominant dog, so you don't want to confuse your new pal into thinking that they are the alpha dog either... When they get sounding too feral, it is always good to slow down a bit, and take a breather so they don't forget that they are playing...... This is never a problem with a pup, of course, but when they get bigger, it is important.

I love romping with Copper, but I would really not want to be on her bad side. As a Plott hound, she is small only on the inside, her heart is very large indeed.

Antonio Correia · March 3, 2008

When I said that John was/is an expert in photography I meant precisely the photos he shot in the ballet.
I could remember them as they were very exquisite and gorgeous.:D

I am not making any comments about dogs as it would take too much room here.
We had 3 animals in the house, none these days, and they had very different characters. Well, never mind. John, be aware of them. Sometimes even playing they can hurt you.

Jim is absolutely right about " I have read somewhere that dogs learn to inhibit their biting with play by remaining with their litter mates for 8 weeks or so. But if removed sooner than 6 weeks, they may not learn to inhibit their bite reflexes." quote from Jim.

Jim, I must tell you this and you are going to excuse me, aren't you ?
Your photo of Copper is superb. I love the light coming from the window and door, the green pot, the dog sit in the stairway...

BUT, excuse me, I think you made a bad crop of it. The composition is rather poor. Can't you re-do it ? Carefully. It deserves.

pathfinder · March 3, 2008

Actually, when I shot that in 2004, the subject was interiors of our houses, so I thought of the dog more as an accent on the staircase, than a primary subject and thus could not see any different composition. You are correct that if Copper is the subject, then the right half of the image is superflous.

But I know you prefer this image of her in my gallery, because you said so there.

Antonio Correia · March 3, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Actually, when I shot that in 2004, the subject was interiors of our houses, so I thought of the dog more as an accent on the staircase, than a primary subject and thus could not see any different composition. You are correct that if Copper is the subject, then the right half of the image is superflous.

But I know you prefer this image of her in my gallery, because you said so there.

Yeh ! I like this picture a lot !

So does my wife

Playing ferocious

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