Model Training Course (10 photos)

shatchshatch Registered Users Posts: 798 Major grins
edited March 4, 2008 in People
Miss Idaho 2007 put on a local modeling class. The gal I used for the LPS came from the agency that Miss Idaho was going to teach at and somehow I ended up being the photographer for the event (for free). It was suppost to run about 3 hours. 1098 photos later and 2:30 in the morning and I was finally on my way home. That will probably be the last time, especially when my wife asked me the next morning, sooo, how much did you get paid? Anyway, here are a couple from the shoot. C&C are welcomed.

1)
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2)
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3)
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4)
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5)
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6)
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7)
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8)
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9)
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10)
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Comments

  • imaximax Registered Users Posts: 691 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    Hey, Congratulations on getting to work with some top notch talent. Unfortuately I can relate to

    especially when my wife asked me the next morning, sooo, how much did you get paid?

    That's why I don't work for free anymore. I guess wives don't understand the imptortance of practice!

    Great work by the way

    Joe
  • RBrogenRBrogen Registered Users Posts: 1,518 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    yeah especially when the "practice" involves late nights with beautiful women!!! mwink.gifrolleyes1.gif
    Randy Brogen, CPP
    www.brogen.com

    Member: PPA , PPANE, PPAM & NAPP
  • shatchshatch Registered Users Posts: 798 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    RBrogen wrote:
    yeah especially when the "practice" involves late nights with beautiful women!!! mwink.gifrolleyes1.gif

    I stayed well on the safe side of the line. In fact, the original intent of the organizers was to shoot some photos to highlight body frame and features. When I found this out, we had a discussion that I couldn't do anything questionable or even boarderline...not even swimsuits. ne_nau.gif I was assured that there wouldn't be anything like that. However, once there, one of the moms of the girls asked if I would shoot her daughter in a swim suit as it was a shot she needed for her comp card. I told her I could shoot her head shot and her gown, but that she would need to find another photographer for the swimsuit. The trust I have earned with my wife is very precious to me and I will never jeprodize my relationship with her.

    I guess this is why I will never make it in the modeling world. That and I can't stop shooting for free!
  • RBrogenRBrogen Registered Users Posts: 1,518 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    shatch wrote:
    I stayed well on the safe side of the line. In fact, the original intent of the organizers was to shoot some photos to highlight body frame and features. When I found this out, we had a discussion that I couldn't do anything questionable or even boarderline...not even swimsuits. ne_nau.gif I was assured that there wouldn't be anything like that. However, once there, one of the moms of the girls asked if I would shoot her daughter in a swim suit as it was a shot she needed for her comp card. I told her I could shoot her head shot and her gown, but that she would need to find another photographer for the swimsuit. The trust I have earned with my wife is very precious to me and I will never jeprodize my relationship with her.

    I guess this is why I will never make it in the modeling world. That and I can't stop shooting for free!

    Definitely understand that...especially these days you have to be so careful with just about everything....'s why I'm sticking with my day job and just doing this for the fun of it...so I shoot for free...at least until someone needs/wants something more that cost me then I'll pass that cost along. I don't want to loose the excitement for the concern of having to make money at it.
    Randy Brogen, CPP
    www.brogen.com

    Member: PPA , PPANE, PPAM & NAPP
  • shatchshatch Registered Users Posts: 798 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    RBrogen wrote:
    Definitely understand that...especially these days you have to be so careful with just about everything....'s why I'm sticking with my day job and just doing this for the fun of it...so I shoot for free...at least until someone needs/wants something more that cost me then I'll pass that cost along. I don't want to loose the excitement for the concern of having to make money at it.

    I hear you there. BTW I stopped over to your website...nicely done!
  • RBrogenRBrogen Registered Users Posts: 1,518 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    shatch wrote:
    I hear you there. BTW I stopped over to your website...nicely done!

    Thanks Shatch...It's a perpetual work in progress ya know but hey...it's a start. BTW...I like the shots you took...3,4,7 & 8 are my favs...6 is really nice but I would have loved to see her entire face. #2 looks like she just slipped under the covers of a freezing beed or she's wicked scared.
    Randy Brogen, CPP
    www.brogen.com

    Member: PPA , PPANE, PPAM & NAPP
  • heatherfeatherheatherfeather Registered Users Posts: 2,738 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    I will never jeprodize my relationship with her.

    Speaking as a wife.... clap.gif (Translation: I applaud you.) I am quite impressed. She is one lucky gal. I would say that I am jealous, but I happen to be lucky tooiloveyou.gif .


    Great pictures by the way! I especially love #4. Great composition.
  • dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    shatch wrote:
    ... she would need to find another photographer for the swimsuit. The trust I have earned with my wife is very precious to me and I will never jeprodize my relationship with her.

    I guess this is why I will never make it in the modeling world. That and I can't stop shooting for free!

    Well, this is probably the wrong spot for this, but I don't quite get what shooting swimwear has to do with jeopadizing a marriage... headscratch.gif There are plenty of married photogs who shoot swimwear. Believe me, if you do it right, there are so many techinical aspects to think about that it's really no different than shooting a portrait.

    So I'm also going to make another unpopular comment-- but out of a thousand photos is this really the best you have? I'd suggest you SLOW down and shoot it like film-- don't shoot unless you know you have the shot you want. I'm not seeing anything in your samples that would likely end up on a comp card or model port. You want to 'sell' the model and show what they can do and why a client should hire them. Anyone can look at a camera.

    Again, slow down. Shoot from a slightly higher perspective, use modelling lamps to reduce the size of the iris (big irises often indicate fear), and forget about using cloth or props to cover parts of the models faces. Think about beauty shots-- some of the best beauty shots feature a model's face and that's it. No clothing, no geled background-- and often no more than a single light.

    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • shatchshatch Registered Users Posts: 798 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    dogwood wrote:
    Well, this is probably the wrong spot for this, but I don't quite get what shooting swimwear has to do with jeopadizing a marriage... headscratch.gif There are plenty of married photogs who shoot swimwear. Believe me, if you do it right, there are so many techinical aspects to think about that it's really no different than shooting a portrait.

    So I'm also going to make another unpopular comment-- but out of a thousand photos is this really the best you have? I'd suggest you SLOW down and shoot it like film-- don't shoot unless you know you have the shot you want. I'm not seeing anything in your samples that would likely end up on a comp card or model port. You want to 'sell' the model and show what they can do and why a client should hire them. Anyone can look at a camera.

    Again, slow down. Shoot from a slightly higher perspective, use modelling lamps to reduce the size of the iris (big irises often indicate fear), and forget about using cloth or props to cover parts of the models faces. Think about beauty shots-- some of the best beauty shots feature a model's face and that's it. No clothing, no geled background-- and often no more than a single light.

    First of all Pete, thank you for taking time to comment on my photos. I have been an admirer of your work for a long time.bowdown.gif You provide inspiration to those of us who are still cutting our teeth on the shutter.

    Swimsuit...I have nothing against them. I wear one when I go swimming. Years ago I spent a significant amount of time pondering the purpose of life. As I came to understand what it ment for me, I asked myself since I found it, now what? One of the parts I came to understand as it pertained to me was the sacredness of the human body. To me it is one of God's greatest creations. It is the most beautiful art form on earth. But my personal belief and decision was to not include the focus of the human body in my photographic repetore. Together with my wife, we made this decision. In honor and respect to her and my relationship with God, I keep that promise. If we had decided to not shoot noses...I would honor that as well. This is not to say that those who do include it in your repetore don't have a relationship with God. Michael Angelo had a great respect for diety and yet did may works that I personally would choose not to do but yet I respect and admire his work. So the issue isn't swimsuits, but my personal beliefs for me and my desire to stick to what I believe. I drew a line that I put significant time and thought into and I choose to stay behind it.

    You can see from my work that I'm no pro, so fortunately, it is easy to keep this promise to myself.

    As for your critique. Thank You!!! I will reread your comments and take them to the studio. The modeling agency emailed me today and asked if I would shoot again...this time for $$ wings.gifSo I intend to improve using your recommendations. If you feel so inclined, I would take even more specific critiquing. I am all ears when the master speaks...

    Thanks again!
  • SwartzySwartzy Registered Users Posts: 3,293 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    Shatch
    If I may, allow me to provide you with my observation regarding each photo.

    #1: The pose is strangled (meaning odd shaped) for the viewer to continue. The left part of the garment looks like it's her arm and cut off mid-joint. The facial look is ghostly and the processing blurred. Nothing that strikes "elegance" nor interest in desire to view again. It appears she's almost in pain.

    #2: First notice is the highlight on the tip (left side/our right) side of the nose..eye goes directly to it. Second are the highlights on the cheek and forehead. The pose is convaluted in conjunction with a pink/white then a red background. Again, I'm looking for something elegant (she's a model BTW)..something to make want me to look at her. Instead she looks startled and her pupils are very large. The white sheet and black hair simply clash for me and the skin processing is terse.

    #3: This shot is kind of a cool "high key". The green eyes would certainly help the overall image if they were to become a main focal point using contrast (meaning, if they were sharper and deeper/richer in color). This is an artsy type shot that has its place for possibly a specific ad. The hair blends a bit much with the face causing the focal point to get lost.

    #4: The fabric overpowers the model and I think it could work much better extracting her and putting a neutral background in. The pink textured wall combats the "feel" of the image.

    #5: The black veil gives a look of a Tim Burton movie shot. Her eyes are bland/whitewashed. Her mouth looks disproportionate because of the vail. Nice ideas here, just (IMHO) but distracting elements that don't say "model"....instead.."subject".

    #6: I think this "often used" half portrait would look much better with less processing and skin softening. The eye..if were tack sharp would really set the mood.

    #7: A little better angle of the model's face in conjuction with better lip/mouth placement would make all the difference here. The skin/light treatment is a bit overpowering. I'll bet you have numerous other shots of this girl that are better.

    #8: Nice pose and nice lighting. The red background is stealing the "look" of your model. She needs to shine so the interesting shadows command the frame for the viewer. Right now, the overly bright red (especially the whiter part to camera left) is taking the eye away from the interesting light contrasts of the model's face.

    #9: That's a cool and very different perspective! My suggestion would be to reprocess the skin tones....make her elegant and the eye pop!

    #10: Maybe it's the full frontal view of her face....maybe the flat lighting (even though there is a bit of a stop difference on the right side (camera right). She looks like she had a good "cry" about 5 minutes before the shot. Again, sharpen the eyes and on this one remove the bottom catchlight and reprocess the skin a bit. Also the red material clashes with the white/turquoise undergament.

    These are my initial observations and realize everyone who views them will have completely different takes. Ha....just look at the LPS :D It would be fun to see some of your other shots as well. I hope some of these suggestions are of help to you. Good for you getting to go shoot again..for pay even! thumb.gif
    Swartzy:
    NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
    Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
    www.daveswartz.com
    Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
  • shatchshatch Registered Users Posts: 798 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    Swartzy wrote:
    If I may, allow me to provide you with my observation regarding each photo.

    #1: The pose is strangled (meaning odd shaped) for the viewer to continue. The left part of the garment looks like it's her arm and cut off mid-joint. The facial look is ghostly and the processing blurred. Nothing that strikes "elegance" nor interest in desire to view again. It appears she's almost in pain.

    #2: First notice is the highlight on the tip (left side/our right) side of the nose..eye goes directly to it. Second are the highlights on the cheek and forehead. The pose is convaluted in conjunction with a pink/white then a red background. Again, I'm looking for something elegant (she's a model BTW)..something to make want me to look at her. Instead she looks startled and her pupils are very large. The white sheet and black hair simply clash for me and the skin processing is terse.

    #3: This shot is kind of a cool "high key". The green eyes would certainly help the overall image if they were to become a main focal point using contrast (meaning, if they were sharper and deeper/richer in color). This is an artsy type shot that has its place for possibly a specific ad. The hair blends a bit much with the face causing the focal point to get lost.

    #4: The fabric overpowers the model and I think it could work much better extracting her and putting a neutral background in. The pink textured wall combats the "feel" of the image.

    #5: The black veil gives a look of a Tim Burton movie shot. Her eyes are bland/whitewashed. Her mouth looks disproportionate because of the vail. Nice ideas here, just (IMHO) but distracting elements that don't say "model"....instead.."subject".

    #6: I think this "often used" half portrait would look much better with less processing and skin softening. The eye..if were tack sharp would really set the mood.

    #7: A little better angle of the model's face in conjuction with better lip/mouth placement would make all the difference here. The skin/light treatment is a bit overpowering. I'll bet you have numerous other shots of this girl that are better.

    #8: Nice pose and nice lighting. The red background is stealing the "look" of your model. She needs to shine so the interesting shadows command the frame for the viewer. Right now, the overly bright red (especially the whiter part to camera left) is taking the eye away from the interesting light contrasts of the model's face.

    #9: That's a cool and very different perspective! My suggestion would be to reprocess the skin tones....make her elegant and the eye pop!

    #10: Maybe it's the full frontal view of her face....maybe the flat lighting (even though there is a bit of a stop difference on the right side (camera right). She looks like she had a good "cry" about 5 minutes before the shot. Again, sharpen the eyes and on this one remove the bottom catchlight and reprocess the skin a bit. Also the red material clashes with the white/turquoise undergament.

    These are my initial observations and realize everyone who views them will have completely different takes. Ha....just look at the LPS :D It would be fun to see some of your other shots as well. I hope some of these suggestions are of help to you. Good for you getting to go shoot again..for pay even! thumb.gif


    Swartzy,
    This is beautiful! Thank you for such a great detailed review and critique. I went through one by one and took in what you said. Dang! I hate being a beginner. Your comments made me keep saying, "Duh! Why didn't I see that!" Do you and Dogwood mind coming out to Idaho for a shoot? I'll be the helper this time.

    Thanks again for the contribution. This is great!

    Anyone else see something to share?
  • CarnalSighCarnalSigh Registered Users Posts: 152 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2008
    Shatch.....believe me when I say I am not trying to put you down...but this comment you made makes absolutely No sense to me...

    "the human body. To me it is one of God's greatest creations. It is the most beautiful art form on earth. But my personal belief and decision was to not include the focus of the human body in my photographic repetore. Together with my wife, we made this decision. In honor and respect to her and my relationship with God, I keep that promise."

    You have a right to photograph whatever you want. We all do. However, to say you won't photograph a body out of respect to anyone or anything else makes no sense to me. Oh well...to each his own. I photograph bodies all the time, and for the same reason you don't. They are a beautiful and perfect subject for glorifying someone's inner and outer beauty.
    I use only Canon cameras and glass
    www.portraitwhisperer.com
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2008
    Shatch.....believe me when I say I am not trying to put you down...but this comment you made makes absolutely No sense to me...

    I can't speak for Shatch, but I believe I understand his motive. He has relationship with God and and his wife. His wife is a unique gift from God and he doesn't want anything to distract from that relationship, even if it's photographing another woman's body. Easiest way to avoid falling off the cliff is to not get near the cliff.
  • CarnalSighCarnalSigh Registered Users Posts: 152 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2008
    jonh68 wrote:
    I can't speak for Shatch, but I believe I understand his motive. He has relationship with God and and his wife. His wife is a unique gift from God and he doesn't want anything to distract from that relationship, even if it's photographing another woman's body. Easiest way to avoid falling off the cliff is to not get near the cliff.

    That...I kind of understand. I was taking what he said as....because I love and honor God, I choose to not photograph the most perfect of his creations.
    I'm NOT a religious person, so allowing some belief system to dictate what and how I live my life or do my photography would be ludicrous to me. Thx for the clarification John. Case closed.
    I use only Canon cameras and glass
    www.portraitwhisperer.com
  • leaforteleaforte Registered Users Posts: 1,948 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2008
    Fav is five. Sorry no review.
    Growing with Dgrin



  • amscoutamscout Registered Users Posts: 35 Big grins
    edited March 4, 2008
    Those are all great! I especially love #7, it just screamed out at me! clap.gif
    Amanda-fulltime mommy, fulltime student, parttime photographer
    Nikon D-80
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2008
    so allowing some belief system to dictate what and how I live my life or do my photography would be ludicrous to me.

    We all live by a belief system on how to best live our lives.
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