Advice 5D or 1D Mark III?

gap2caf

after reading tons of reviews i am not sure which direction to go...

i am currently shooting w/ a 20D and looking to upgrade to a full-frame camera capable of producing sharp images enlarged to 11x14 up to 24x36. my clients are primarily children. i shoot in studio and outdoors. i need a fast, sharp reliable upgrade. with the 5D receiving sensor cleaning/dust issues and no weather protection and the 1d m3 having its own issues i am not sure where to go.

any advice? or other options. i can't afford to go over $4k right now.

thank you!
christy

ziggy53

gap2caf wrote:

after reading tons of reviews i am not sure which direction to go...

i am currently shooting w/ a 20D and looking to upgrade to a full-frame camera capable of producing sharp images enlarged to 11x14 up to 24x36. my clients are primarily children. i shoot in studio and outdoors. i need a fast, sharp reliable upgrade. with the 5D receiving sensor cleaning/dust issues and no weather protection and the 1d m3 having its own issues i am not sure where to go.

any advice? or other options. i can't afford to go over $4k right now.

thank you!
christy

Tha Canon 1D MKIII is a crop 1.3x, so if you really need a full-frame Canon camera for $4000USD or less your only choice is the 5D or a well used 1Ds MKII.

I've seen portraits made from 8MP crop imagers as large as 20 x 30, so I think the 5D is plenty. Who does the printing could be critical.

What lenses will you be using?

Nice samples on your website BTW.

gap2caf

thanks ziggy! i probably don't really "need" a full frame, but heard through reviews my L glass would really shine w/ this feature. again, i've been reading too much i'm sure. i want the best body for the $. it must be fast, durable, sharp and an upgrade from a 20D. i feel like comparing some of the options is a like splitting hairs. anyway, my standard lens is my Canon 24-105 f4 L w/ IS, but also hoping to add an 85mm f 1.2 L in the future. now that i am writing this, i also remembe some glass doesn't transfer over...is that a problem w/ either of the cameras we're discussing? thank you for the advice and any additional thoughts!!! christy

ziggy53

gap2caf wrote:

thanks ziggy! i probably don't really "need" a full frame, but heard through reviews my L glass would really shine w/ this feature. again, i've been reading too much i'm sure. i want the best body for the $. it must be fast, durable, sharp and an upgrade from a 20D. i feel like comparing some of the options is a like splitting hairs. anyway, my standard lens is my Canon 24-105 f4 L w/ IS, but also hoping to add an 85mm f 1.2 L in the future. now that i am writing this, i also remembe some glass doesn't transfer over...is that a problem w/ either of the cameras we're discussing? thank you for the advice and any additional thoughts!!! christy

A local pro, who is also a friend, uses a 5D with the Canon EF 24-105mm, f4L for some event work and, I think, environmental portraits. Anyway she uses the 5D for studio portraiture as well, but I'm not sure what lenses.

I should think either the Canon EF 85mm, f1.2L or the f1.8 version would be perfect for many child portrait poses and opportunities.

Only Canon EF-S lenses would not mount on the 5D or 1Ds series cameras. The EF 24-105mm, f4L is designed for full-frame so, no problem.

ziggy53

P.S. You could rent a Canon 1D MKIII and run some tests to see if it meets your quality standards. I suspect that it might.

It is truly a superb camera. The focus problems, on the affected cameras, primarily impact sports shooters in action situations in specific circumstances. Many folks have no problem with the camera at all.

The 1D MKIII camera is considerably heavier than the 20D that you have, so that might be a consideration, but the responsiveness is just awesome. The image IQ of the 1D MKIII is probably going to be very similar to the 5D, and the "Highlight Tone Priority" might give it an edge. The properties of the pixels are usually more important than total pixel count, especially in delicate skin tones.

GSPeP

Hi Christy,

I have both: the 5D and the 1D Mk III.

At first I was not very happy with the 1D but that was my own fault: I made the mistake of putting the 28-135 IS lense on it.

The 24-105L IS is my standard lense on the 5D. And after taking some pictures with it on the 1D, I was really convinced about the quality of the 1D. Now I'm going to buy a second 24-105 to put on the 1D.

Image quality is similar to the 5D. So if you don't really need wide angle I could recommend the 1D. If you want to spend less money go for the 5D. (The 24-105 is perfect on that camera). It's also less heavy. (I have the battery grip on the 5D so there is not much difference for me) I prefer heavier camera's because it gives me a feeling that there is more stability.

Tee Why

Another vote for the 5D. The 5D is very popular with portrait and wedding shooters and I think it's a better buy for the size of your prints and the type of shooting.

I'd say the 1DMIII if you were more into events/sports/PJ work though.

Anther option is the 40D, but I think the 5D should be fine. One downside is that the 5D may have is it's RAW buffer is relatively small by todays standards (if you can call 17 RAW shots small, but if you shoot RAW and JPEG, the buffer I'm sure will be even less), so if you shoot alot, then that may be a problem as you may have to slow down for the buffer to clear. In which case a very fast CF card will help a bit. The AF is faster on the 1D series, but again, I'm not sure if it's worth $2000, especially since you are looking to buy a lens as well.

If it was me, I'd probably go for a 5D with a grip and a 85mm f1.8/100mm f2/135mm f2L. Although the 85mm f1.2L is a nice lens, I find the price too high and AF a bit too slow for fast moving kids. The 135mm IMO probably has one of the fastest AF in the Canon lineup and on a FF, 135mm may give you a little bit more room so you can shoot from a bit further away than a 85mm.

Good luck.

gap2caf

wow! you are all so wonderful! i really appreciate all of the advice and explanation. i may rent to be sure (or borrow from a friend) like ziggy suggested first. it seems though that the best "package" for me would be a 5d and more glass. again, i am so appreciative!!! christy

ziggy53

Christy,

Just in case you missed it, we have a thread with rental suggestions here:

http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=79033

KED

gap2caf wrote:

thanks ziggy! i probably don't really "need" a full frame, but heard through reviews my L glass would really shine w/ this feature. again, i've been reading too much i'm sure. i want the best body for the $. it must be fast, durable, sharp and an upgrade from a 20D. i feel like comparing some of the options is a like splitting hairs. anyway, my standard lens is my Canon 24-105 f4 L w/ IS, but also hoping to add an 85mm f 1.2 L in the future. now that i am writing this, i also remembe some glass doesn't transfer over...is that a problem w/ either of the cameras we're discussing? thank you for the advice and any additional thoughts!!! christy

(A) Your glass will transfer across all Canon bodies (at least at the upper end we are discussing) no problem; and (B) the Mk III issue relates exclusively to AI Servo and presents itself most often in bright sunlight while shooting in burst mode (and some people, including Rob Galbraith, would throw in high temperatures but I've had trouble in cool to cold as well).

So I think the basic choice is full-frame vs crop, but there is the added "layer" here that the Mk III has a known, and still unresolved, defect. One other vector for you is that one of the Mk III's greatest attributes (that you are paying a lot for) is blazing-fast (10.5 fps) burst mode, which may be of no value to you whatsoever.

ziggy53

KED wrote:

... One other vector for you is that one of the Mk III's greatest attributes (that you are paying a lot for) is blazing-fast (10.5 fps) burst mode, which may be of no value to you whatsoever.

While the high frame rate may not be fully utilized in child portraiture, the rather extreme overall responsiveness of the 1D MKIII probably would be appreciated.

Unless AI Servo is required, that particular problem need not limit the overall prowess of the camera, which is generally superb. I suggest that once you try one of the Canon 1D series cameras, the sense of speed grows on you and is hard to dismiss. (The Nikon D300 is supposed to yield a similar experience, as does the D2H/D2Hs before it. )

pathfinder

I shoot with a 5D routinely, and a 40D. I do not consider the 40D a lesser camera in any way than the 5D, except that the 5D offers a wider angle of view with a given focal length. The faster AF of the 40D makes it a very worthwhile upgrade from a 20D. This is a difference you will appreciate immediately. The higher frame rate of the 40D over the 5D may be a help in shooting kids also.

I sold my 1DMkll in preparation for a 1DMklll, and after the focusing fiasco, have held off so far, as the AF upgrade in the 40D works well for shooting wildlife.

This gallery page has images shot with a 40D or a 5D. See if you can tell which was which without looking at the exif data. Later pages in that gallery also have shots taken with a G9.

My suggestion is to try a 40D before deciding between a 5D and a 1DMklll. You may find the cheaper camera is more than adequate for your needs. I tend to use the 5D for landscapes and my 40D for wildlife due to the advantage of the smaller sensor with telephotos. Both cameras will give superb images. You could have two 40Ds and a new lens for the price of a 5D or a 1DMklll - just a thought.....

claudermilk

pathfinder wrote:

...The faster AF of the 40D makes it a very worthwhile upgrade from a 20D. This is a difference you will appreciate immediately. ...

How about AF accuracy? Now you guys have me thinking about the 40D instead of the 1D Mk II(N). After playing with a loaned 1Ds Mk II I found the AF to be magic & solved the only stumbling block I have with the 20D. I would expect the non-s variant to have similar AF performance. I'm wondering if the 40D would take me there for less $$$. At about $1100, it's still cheaper than the $2k-3k of a used 1D.

pathfinder

Chris, the 40D is not the equal of a 1DMKll in speed of acquisition of focus, but it is much quicker and more able in dimmer light than a 20D ever dreamed of.

If you are getting paid to shoot sports, then a 1DMkll or lll is what you want. But for a lot of amateurs, fathers, and sports fans, the 40D with its 6.5 frame/second will be pleasing. It am able to shoot birds in flight with the 40D, and that can be rather challenging with a 20D in lower light.

As for accuracy, I think the 40D is very accurate, just not quite as fast as a 1series camera that just SNAPS to focus.

The 40D's focus is noticeably faster than a 5D's, in my hands anyway.

KED

claudermilk wrote:

How about AF accuracy? Now you guys have me thinking about the 40D instead of the 1D Mk II(N). After playing with a loaned 1Ds Mk II I found the AF to be magic & solved the only stumbling block I have with the 20D. I would expect the non-s variant to have similar AF performance. I'm wondering if the 40D would take me there for less $$$. At about $1100, it's still cheaper than the $2k-3k of a used 1D.

All I can tell you is this: I have a Mk II N and a Mk III. I don't have experience with non-1ds. But the "N" absolutely rocks, has never failed me (even now is my "go to" with the III's ongoing issues), and if you can pick one up for a reasonable price, assuming it to have been gently used, I cannot imagine you not being delighted with it. You get what you pay for, and of course don't need to pay for things you don't need, but the N is 8.5 fps with impeccable and blazing fast AF -- if the marginal benefit vs the 40D matters to you, go for it.