client won photo contest...with my photo

urbanaries

I was told one of my clients has won a photo contest with a photo of their child that I shot for them. The magazine has a 1.3 million circulation (the US' largest travel organization). I looked on their website and there is a pretty hefty prize associated, as well as publishing in print and on the website.

The client has not contacted me about this for permission, but she asked my relative to ask me for a "file or some paperwork for the magazine" because she was too busy to get a hold of me. Thankfully my relative told her that she was not going to get involved and that she should absolutely contact me. She has not.

I don't want to rain on their parade, and am pretty sure that she did this without knowing the implications of what she was doing. On the other hand, I feel like she knows she should contact me. Even if she doesn't realize she needs my permission, it seems like common courtesy...then there's the publisher (any print she sent them would have my copyright backprinted). She was never given the digital negatives and the proofs were watermarked.

Should I contact her? Should I contact the publisher? I don't want to get antsy or angry, this could be a cool thing... I just am annoyed that I have not been involved in the process, and the publisher gets away with it.

Advice?

Moogle Pepper

My guess is the client thinking that the photo was of her child that it's alright for her to proceed without communicating it with you.

I think you ought to contact her about it.

Andy

urbanaries wrote:

I was told one of my clients has won a photo contest with a photo of their child that I shot for them. The magazine has a 1.3 million circulation (the US' largest travel organization). I looked on their website and there is a pretty hefty prize associated, as well as publishing in print and on the website.

The client has not contacted me about this for permission, but she asked my relative to ask me for a "file or some paperwork for the magazine" because she was too busy to get a hold of me. Thankfully my relative told her that she was not going to get involved and that she should absolutely contact me. She has not.

I don't want to rain on their parade, and am pretty sure that she did this without knowing the implications of what she was doing. On the other hand, I feel like she knows she should contact me. Even if she doesn't realize she needs my permission, it seems like common courtesy...then there's the publisher (any print she sent them would have my copyright backprinted). She was never given the digital negatives and the proofs were watermarked.

Should I contact her? Should I contact the publisher? I don't want to get antsy or angry, this could be a cool thing... I just am annoyed that I have not been involved in the process, and the publisher gets away with it.

Advice?

What were the contest rules?
Did the entry have to take the photo?
Own the photo?
What license terms did you grant to your client?

urbanaries

Andy wrote:

What were the contest rules?
Did the entry have to take the photo?
Own the photo?
What license terms did you grant to your client?

thanks Andy for your input...

I looked at the rules and it does not appear that they ask for proof or even statement of copyright ownership. No mention of clarifying "who took the photo" at all. Pretty irresponsible...they should know better IMO. Then again, I can't be sure that I'm looking at the correct contest, as I haven't been made privy to details. Magazines like this run photo submission contests frequently it seems.

No copyrights were granted to client. I shot on spec and they ordered prints via smugmug. They signed a model release for *me* to use the photos for promotional purposes....not the other way around.

Richard

Well, first of all, congratulations on winning the contest. clap

I think you ought do something here. At a minimum, you should make sure that you receive proper credit if the photo is going to be published in the magazine or online. Beyond that, I guess you will need to negotiate a reasonable agreement with the magazine and your client. I have no idea of the legalities here, but I am guessing you are on solid ground in asserting your rights.

Regards,

Scott_Quier

Congrats on the contesting winning photograph - cool!

As for your situation, I think I would give the client a call, let her know that a relative mentioned the situation. I would then remind the client that I retain all copyright to photo and that if he/she wants to enter the photo in any contest, "Well, let's make a deal! " Do it all with a smile and under the assumption that the client didn't know he/she stepped on toes and that I would be willing to help him/her make it all right.

Before I got into that conversation, however, I think I would first decide what I would do if the client gets nasty about the situation.

MichaelKirk

Tag along...
I just want to tag along for the ride on this one to see how it progresses and the final outcome.

Was the contest - a "Beauty Kid" type contest when they are judging the child and not the photo or was it a Photo Contest where they are judging the photo itself? Intentions there make a big difference (to me). If it was an Actual Photo Contest where they are judging the photo itself and your "client" sent in your photo - that "appears" a bit to me as underhanded and purely a plageristic type scenero - kind of like a poetry contest and sending in a poem as your own that you did not write.

Start off civilized and pleasant, but don't let someone profit off of stealing your work.

Keep us updated
Michael

zacker

i would call the person, tell her your relative mentioned it to you but... play dumb about tha contest, act like you dont know anything...see if she "fesses up" after you tell her there is no way she can use the pic for that unless she gets written permission and buy the rights to the photo.. so if she says, Opps, i didnt know and i entered and won, you should get at least 1/2 the winnings... if she also plays dumb and doesnt tell you she won.. call the publisher and order them to cease and dissist and to not publis your phot as YOU own all the rights to it and didnt enter it. if she lied, dont rain on her parade.... Pour on it!!!

Llywellyn

What confuses me, and puts me on guard, is that your client had the time to contact your relative but doesn't have the time to contact you directly? Seems to me a long way 'round to do things--which usually adds time instead of condensing it by going straight to the source.

urbanaries

thanks for the input everyone! Many of you are thinking along the same lines I am....but given that there is a familial relationship, I don't want to go wojo on her. If I approach the publisher, it's all but guaranteed they'll just disqualify the entry rather than deal with the legal issues. And then I'll be the evil photographer that crushed her little girl's excitement....

I'm going to send a nice, "playing dumb" email and see what I get. At the absolute minimum I need to be credited for the photo, and while the vacation/$ prize should be mine, I hesitate to appear greedy and snotty. (She is my stepmom's sister, obviously they are closer to each other than to me).

And yes, it is not a true photographic competition but a "send us your best kid/vacation/pet photo contest". So I can understand why she thought it was ok, but I really do think that most people with a brain would think to notify the photographer themselves if not before entering, certainly before the publishing!

thenimirra

wow....I'm so sorry to hear this, but I'm still new to the biz too so I will be following the thread to see what becomes of this. It's a very cautionary tale regarding ownership of photos. Hang in there and let us know what happens.

BeachBill

urbanaries wrote:

I looked at the rules and it does not appear that they ask for proof or even statement of copyright ownership.

Wow, I agree that is pretty irresponsible of the magazine. If you are reading the correct rules, then I would have to say the magazine is more at fault than your step aunt. If the rules don't mention anything about taking the photo yourself, then the magazine would be solely at fault and responsible for any copyright infringement.

Anyway, I hope this all works out in the end for you. I too will be keeping an eye on this thread watching for the outcome.

mr peas

Whats the prize? If it was a million buckoos, then whoa nelly, you should get a snap of that cash money right now and start buying some L-glasses, you know? But on the other hand, if this is a family member be it not by blood or not and it makes them happy, you should get at least a big ol' thank you.

Tsk tsk, this is the hardest part, its hardest to deal with family when it comes to cash or prizes for that matter, wouldnt want to have a negative relationship with your family members now and have awkward holidays right?

I think your best option is to straight up say, "hey you won the contest with the photo I took, can I get a little something on my end?".

If you think about it long enough, its a contest for parents and their kids, if it was a contest with photographers vs other photographers and another photog. took your photo and used it as their own then thats a diff. story. But this is their kid not yours and they have just about 75% say in the matter, but they do owe you an explanation at the least and a damn big THANK YOU. I mean, you just sent them to a clean-free vay-kay, and no thanks?

Handle it!

Angelo

urbanaries wrote:

I was told one of my clients has won a photo contest with a photo of their child that I shot for them.

Are you over reacting? Who told you this information? Is it verifiable?

Her needing to contact you for "a file or some paperwork for the magazine" is a clear indication the magazine won't publish the image as presented. You can simply wait this out until the formal request is made at which point I would cooperate or deny depending on the terms of the request. Maybe she has every intent to honor you as the photographer.

You could also, upon verification of the situation, contact the magazine with advance notice that you hold copyright on the image and any violation will be met with demand for specific performance.

urbanaries

Angelo wrote:

Are you over reacting? Who told you this information? Is it verifiable?

well, I haven't reacted at all yet, so no :DI just wanted to get a feel for what others had to say on the matter before putting my foot in my mouth.

My stepmother (whom I consider very trustworthy) told me. The client is her sister, whom I don't know very well at all; she hired me about a year ago for one session.

Her needing to contact you for "a file or some paperwork for the magazine" is a clear indication the magazine won't publish the image as presented. You can simply wait this out until the formal request is made at which point I would cooperate or deny depending on the terms of the request. Maybe she has every intent to honor you as the photographer.

I think you're right, and I'm going to sit tight for another day or so, but I honestly don't want to find out (after the fact) that it was already published without proper credit.

ShepsMom

I wonder what contest it was, there are a lot of this kind of stuff going on online now a days. I hope it's nothing hokey pokey, plus no rules regarding ownership/copyright would sounds like something to be aware of.
Any legit type of contest would have strict rules in regards to entry, anything else is just "blah blah blah..." type of thing.
Did she have to pay to enter contest?
I'd check into this more if i were you.

Good luck!

MichaelKirk

Contest
I would definately want to read the fine print of the contest rules.
Agree - there are so many of these "contest" now das with the intent of getting "stock" type images for next to nothing in cost$$. Fine print says by sending in yout photo you loose all rights and the company holding the contest now retains all rights and usage of submitted images - easy way to build a lost cost stock imventory of images.

Hopefully it's on the up and up and you get to share a weeks vacation with a relative.

Michael

ShepsMom wrote:

I wonder what contest it was, there are a lot of this kind of stuff going on online now a days. I hope it's nothing hokey pokey, plus no rules regarding ownership/copyright would sounds like something to be aware of.
Any legit type of contest would have strict rules in regards to entry, anything else is just "blah blah blah..." type of thing.
Did she have to pay to enter contest?
I'd check into this more if i were you.

Good luck!

jeffreaux2

My instincts tell me that if she HONESTLY thought she had not crossed any boundries, then she would have already been in touch with you to share in her excitement.

I have a BIG problem with this whole scenario. It would seem at some point that SHE should be disqualified for NOT taking the photograph. I am sure the other contestants would NOT appreciate knowing that the winner was taken by a pro. It is underhanded at every turn...even if the rules aren't explicit.

I am also interested in how this turns out.

If it were me, I would just call her and say that while you are flattered that one of your photos won a contest, you will not allow it to be published without due credit. Period. There is nothing wrong with that. The publisher would likely drop it like a hot potato if you called and told them you did not give them the right to reproduce.


Fair and honest ...this is what this is about.

ChrisJ

:lurk Nothing really to add that hasn't already been said. But I'm interested to hear the outcome (and see the picture if/when you can post it!).

evoryware

I just can't believe she didn't contact you about it but contacted your family member about it. Let's see how busy she is on that vacation w/o you.


:lurk

urbanaries

evoryware wrote:

I just can't believe she didn't contact you about it but contacted your family member about it. Let's see how busy she is on that vacation w/o you.:lurk

Well, in all fairness she sees her own sister about 100x more often than she sees me...but STILL.

Email sent this a.m....."I heard about a magazine publishing a photo of mine and wondered what the scoop was?"

I don't even know what photo it is yet...I'll let you guys know what I find out.!

thanks for all the responses!!!

Scott_Quier

urbanaries wrote:

Well, in all fairness she sees her own sister about 100x more often than she sees me...but STILL.

Email sent this a.m....."I heard about a magazine publishing a photo of mine and wondered what the scoop was?"

I don't even know what photo it is yet...I'll let you guys know what I find out.!

thanks for all the responses!!!

Here's me - waiting, holding my breath!

Art Scott

Scott_Quier wrote:

Here's me - waiting, holding my breath!

Me toooooo!! Turning blue...................

Angelo

urbanaries wrote:

Email sent this a.m....."I heard about a magazine publishing a photo of mine and wondered what the scoop was?"

goodonya...

this should have been your first step.


:lurk

aj986s

Maybe the same can be said about "Don't mix family & contests"

Good luck! Hopefully its only an unfortunate misunderstanding, and no one has to appear on Judge Judy....

urbanaries

Here we go! apparently not a contest. Remember the game "telephone" as a kid?

It is for her work's magazine which does happen to be the same company, but instead of a contest, they want to use it as editorial.

She "wanted to make sure that was okay with you and to see if you might still have that picture because we never did get it on a CD. We of course would give you credit for the picture. Let me know what you think. It goes to 200,000+ households."

Of course she "never did get it on CD"...as if that was a complaint. I think I need to talk to the editor of this publication. She clearly doesn't understand copyrights at all, so I don't want to be hostile, but it needs to be clear that I'm not "okay" with it. Or maybe I should be ok with it, as the exposure might be nice. Help!

urbanaries

and here's a link to the photo if anyone's interested. Serious buyers only!
http://www.lynnehulbertphotography.smugmug.com/gallery/2606273_E2jvZ/1/137481660_SPWZf#137481660

bham

First of all great shot. Second if there is an attached article besides just a photo credit find out what the article is about. There maybe a way that can work you name, info into the article. If you decide the free publicity is worth it. You probably should at least charge for the digital file IMHO.

Scott_Quier

Tough call, but I think I would contact the editors/publishers of the mag and find out what the real deal is. Then, once you have the rules of the game, make a decision about whether this is something you want to allow, and at what price (could be the exposure is worth allowing the photo to be in print???). But, I think you're right about the lady not really understanding the legal/copyright issues involved here.

This is me, waiting for the next installment in the epic saga of .....

mbellot

urbanaries wrote:

"It goes to 200,000+ households."

Any magazine with that kind of circulation should know a thing or two about copyright...

How's a penny a copy sound?

ShepsMom

Nice shot!!!

Penny a shot? How much does it make?