Next question, who is a good online retailer of equipment that has a good reputation and GOOD prices?
Thanks all. The daughter has a tournament in two weeks and I would like to get geared up before that one so I can play around more!
What an awesome forumn!
I would only recommend buying from one place as they are consistantly good, and that is B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
Their service is amazing, and though their prices may not be the lowest that you will find, they are very competitive and within a couple dollars or the cheap prices that you'll find. They will not do you wrong.
Post pictures you shoot at the tourney with your new gear. I'm sure we'd all be interested
Good luck
My Kit
Canon 5DII, Canon 7D
Canon Canon 24-70 f/2.8L, Canon 35 f/1.4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, Canon 85 f/1.2L II, Canon 500mm f/4 IS, Zeiss 21mm ZE
Speedlite 580ex II, Canon 430ex
Where I live, a small town in northern Illinois, if there is a complaint from either coach you are asked to stop with flash photography by the refs.
When I was shooting full time I was in high schools througout the NJ-NY-CT area from New Haven to Albany to Philly and in colleges all over the country. If a coach complained the ref would have asked me to stop. My earlier point was - no one complained.
Most schools/teams won't let you use a flash court side for most indoor sports at it blinds the athelets when they need to keep their eye on the ball.
As I reported earlier, throughout 20+ years of full time shooting, I don't recall ever being asked to stop using a flash at any indoor high school or college JV or Varsity event.
I would only recommend buying from one place as they are consistantly good, and that is B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
Their service is amazing, and though their prices may not be the lowest that you will find, they are very competitive and within a couple dollars or the cheap prices that you'll find. They will not do you wrong.
Nowadays I shoot with my 40D at 3200 ISO to get the additional shutterspeed I want and I enable the High ISO Noise Reduction function in the camera. I like the results much better than what I used to get at ISO 1600 on the Digital Rebel.
FYI, The High ISO Noise Reduction is not doing what you think it is. It's meant for long duration shutter speeds (think multi-second open shutter). What it does is after you take the shot, the camera takes another "dark frame" shot by turning on the sensor but not opening hte shutter. This gives the current set of hot pixels. It then subtracts those hot pixels from the original image. You are effectively doubling the time spent taking the image. AND, IIRC it does not actually activate until you are on at least a 2sec shutter speed (check your manual on this, I'm going off reading my 20D manual a long while ago). Don't bother with it, it's meant for night shooting with extremely long shutter openings.
When I was shooting full time I was in high schools througout the NJ-NY-CT area from New Haven to Albany to Philly and in colleges all over the country. If a coach complained the ref would have asked me to stop. My earlier point was - no one complained.
...
No dispute Henry. That's why I qualified my story. I swear there is something wierd about where I currently live.
The story I related didn't happen to me, I was a spectator, but I saw it happen. It was another parent shooting their own child. I thought they were being very professional and they were not flashing that frequently nor were they in the way of anyone.
One of the coaches, I don't remember exactly who because I didn't know the coaches and I wasn't really paying attention, approached one of the refs and then the parent was told to stop using flash. I talked to the parent later and they (the parent) were not told why there were told to stop using flash.
I have my own stories, but they don't relate to indoor sports or flash usage, so it just would seem there is something about where I live.
As I reported earlier, throughout 20+ years of full time shooting, I don't recall ever being asked to stop using a flash at any indoor high school or college JV or Varsity event.
Well you've been quite lucky. It didn't happen all the time but I've had it happen a few times in my past. More at Volleyball games then at Basketball games.
Considering the height of most gym ceilings, I don't think you can rely on that often.
I have been in enough gyms to know it's an exception as I haven't been in one that I couldn't. With 1.8 glass, and even 2.8, they pick up enough light to compliment gym light. The three pictures I posted were from a gym that has the highest HS ceiling I have been in.
FYI, The High ISO Noise Reduction is not doing what you think it is. It's meant for long duration shutter speeds...
Actually, the new 40D does BOTH the High ISO Noise Reduction that I mentioned and the long exposure noise reduction that you described. One difference from what you described, however is that the long exposure NR kicks in at 1 second and above if it is activated.
The High ISO NR is Custom Function II-2 and the manual states, "Although noise reduction is applied at all ISO speeds, it is particularly effective at high ISO speeds."
Well you've been quite lucky. It didn't happen all the time but I've had it happen a few times in my past. More at Volleyball games then at Basketball games.
I have found they don't like flash when you are right on the floor. However, from the stands, behind the benches or at the end of the courts has been OK for me so far, in regards to volleyball.
Actually, the new 40D does BOTH the High ISO Noise Reduction that I mentioned and the long exposure noise reduction that you described. One difference from what you described, however is that the long exposure NR kicks in at 1 second and above if it is activated.
The High ISO NR is Custom Function II-2 and the manual states, "Although noise reduction is applied at all ISO speeds, it is particularly effective at high ISO speeds."
I love my 40D!
Cool, that was not mentioned much if at all as new fancy features. Learn something new every day.
I did it!!!! I did it! I am so excited! I bit the bullet and ordered a Canon 85mm f1.8 lens and filter and a Canon 430EX Flash from B&H. I can''t hardly stand it!!!!:D
I have read extensivley in the sports section of this site and it looks like I can't go wrong with that combo. I absolutely can't wait to get it and play with it!
My daughter has a tournament next weekend. I hope it gets here before that.
I do have a question for B&H though....On your web site, the Canon equipment.....some is listed as "Imported" and some as "USA" The price usually varies a little....what is the difference in the equipment? I prefer keeping my business in the US but I know even those are probably overseas????
Thank you all for your advice and input. And, thanks to the reference of B&H. I like his web site and prices!
I will let you know how the combo turns out for me soon.
...
I do have a question for B&H though....On your web site, the Canon equipment.....some is listed as "Imported" and some as "USA" The price usually varies a little....what is the difference in the equipment? I prefer keeping my business in the US but I know even those are probably overseas????
...
"Imported" items usually do not have a valid U.S. warranty. The items themselves are identical in most cases. I recommend purchasing the domestic version just to get the warranty.
I did it! I am so excited! I bit the bullet and ordered a Canon 85mm f1.8 lens and filter and a Canon 430EX Flash from B&H. I can''t hardly stand it!!!!:D
I have read extensivley in the sports section of this site and it looks like I can't go wrong with that combo. I absolutely can't wait to get it and play with it!
My daughter has a tournament next weekend. I hope it gets here before that.
I do have a question for B&H though....On your web site, the Canon equipment.....some is listed as "Imported" and some as "USA" The price usually varies a little....what is the difference in the equipment? I prefer keeping my business in the US but I know even those are probably overseas????
Thank you all for your advice and input. And, thanks to the reference of B&H. I like his web site and prices!
I will let you know how the combo turns out for me soon.
This is an awesome forum! Keep it up everyone!
When you get your lens and shoot a game, it will take some time getting used to. If you see you miss some shots because it doesn't focus fast enough, pre focus on certain shots you want to get such as spikes or blocks. That way, the lens doesn't have to hunt as much. You will get frustrated if you follow the ball around.
If you want to get some close ups, you will be able to get courtside, but don't use the flash that close. I have kneeled down by the scorers table. From that postion, you can get digs on both sides of the court and since you are on the same level, they look very dramatic. Spikes and blocks also look very good from that angle, but harder to get because the 85 mm is too much at times and you will not have much to work with in regards to cropping. When you do get something good however, it's great.
If you get behind the benches, you can probably get away with using flash as the spikers are looking towards the middle of the court and the blockers are behind. Try direct and bounce flash, and no flash. Use the warmups as opportunities to test various shots you want and you can get feedback from the players if flash is bothering them.
You can also get some real good shots be being in the stands just a bit higher than the net either straight in line with it, or the middle half of one court. You will soon find one particular spot or two you really like.
I do have a question for B&H though....On your web site, the Canon equipment.....some is listed as "Imported" and some as "USA" The price usually varies a little....what is the difference in the equipment? I prefer keeping my business in the US but I know even those are probably overseas????
I go to Valparaiso University and shoot the women's games all the time. I was shooting alright with a 70-200 F/4L non IS but this is at a college and admittedly a lot brighter!
The one thing about L glass verses the 1.8 is the focus will be on more often. If you are shooting at 1.8 you have to be right on or you won't have focus at all!
I am still debating whether to get the 85 1.8 or not... but right now I am shooting with 2.8L IS 70-200 and it is great for bball and vball...
We are talking about the difference between high school and college lighting though. (D1 at that)
The difference though between the 85 and the 70-200 which is nice is you don't have to walk around to get different angles and different shots... Sometimes when you work with a prime all the time you get bored b/c your shots all become the same.
However it will be nice to have a good flash and good prime! Have fun!
Got the new lens!
Well, my new 85mm lens and 430X Speedlight came yesterday:D (Wed). I played with it last night in the family room.....taking portraits of my daughter with it and the kit lens and the flash on and off. It appears that it is going to be LOTS O' fun!
She has a tournanment this weekend. Only problem is, it's at a small private school and the gym has little room for me to move around. I'll adjust though.
I am real excited about the possiblity of finally getting some good quality pics of her and her team. I have gotten SEVERAL good content pics over the last many years.....but they are ALL DARK. :cry
I think I am on the right path now!!!
I will post some of my results for your critique if you would like. Question though. I'm new to posting pics on forums....I have done it on ThumperTalk and ADVrider using Photobucket. Can I use Photobucket on here??? Is it ok to post pics from there or do you have to use SmugMug which I see on here a lot but know nothin' about.
I will post some of my results for your critique if you would like. Question though. I'm new to posting pics on forums....I have done it on ThumperTalk and ADVrider using Photobucket. Can I use Photobucket on here??? Is it ok to post pics from there or do you have to use SmugMug which I see on here a lot but know nothin' about.
Wish me luck!
Should be the same as posting to other fora (click the little mountains button in the toolbar). Yes, and yes--you can share from any host service that allows it.
V'Ball Pics for C&C to post on Sports forum
OK folks, I go some pix last weekend with the new lens/flash combo. (With mixed results) I am going to post some of them for your C&C. I guess I will post them under the "sports" forum.
Thanks to each of you for your wonderful advice and thanks to B&H for prompt delivery of a good product. I will be dealing with you all again in the near future.
Just want to share the latest experience of 70-200 F2.8 IS in the low light stage performance.
I got this photo from one of the dance show last week. I was sitting about 30 meters away and use handheld and IS was on. No flash at all.
The low light and fast dance action was a real challenge. But the IS combined with the low noise level of high ISO in 5D delivered a reasonable good result.
That is the stage red light. I could wait for the bright white spot light to come on. I like the figure and the dance.
Nothing is perfect in live.
Got another one with the sames lens from the same seat when the white spot light on.
just a side note...everyone but the photographer hates flash at any sport...
if a photog was firing off multi flash at my kids events it better only be when the opposing team is shooting or hitting...
i would sure hate to have my kids team distracted....
btw, IMO you will never get good shots from the stands or across court...
unless you have a 400mm 2.8... (besides low light at distance the angle alone would be cause for that statment)
search the sports threads for shooting tips in gyms...
I use a flash with basketball and have never had a coach or player say one thing about it. I even have asked the refs if they notice it. But saying this, I have almost always shot flash bouncing off the ceiling. The only exception to bounce was in a very dark gym. Tried to bounce but it didn't work. Looked up and some person thought it would be a great idea to paint the ceiling black. Like a gym is not dark enough to start with.
The first time that I used flash straight on, I hardly took any photos. But when I saw that the game was actually over, just waiting for time to run out. I did shoot one player only about 20 feet from me, driving the ball toward me. Since I usually stand under or near the basket. After the shot, I quickly pulled my camera away to see if there was any reaction from the player. Which gave no indication that the flash bothered them. But after the game, I even asked the player if the flash bothered them. I had to tell the when and what they were doing at the time because the flash never bothered the player and this was one of star players who has the most shots taken of them.
When visiting an opposing teams gym, I try and find the AD and ask first if they can't be found then I ask the opposing team's coach. People give a lot of hoopla about photographers using flash. But watch the stands and see how many times flashes goes off.
Sorry for the rant, but I have come to the conclusion that when someone complains about a flash, in gyms is just looking for an excuse to justify their lack of ability to win.
Now to the question on the thread about volleyball. I have also shot volleyball. Since the players are more stationery then with basketball, I can use a prime. I have purchased the 85mm f/1.8 and works great. Since
I now have two cameras, thinking of purchasing the 135mm f/2.0. My situation may be different them most. I am able to walk around and have
plenty of room to more.
Have fun in what ever you choose
Comments
I would only recommend buying from one place as they are consistantly good, and that is B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
Their service is amazing, and though their prices may not be the lowest that you will find, they are very competitive and within a couple dollars or the cheap prices that you'll find. They will not do you wrong.
Post pictures you shoot at the tourney with your new gear. I'm sure we'd all be interested
Good luck
Canon 5DII, Canon 7D
Canon Canon 24-70 f/2.8L, Canon 35 f/1.4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, Canon 85 f/1.2L II, Canon 500mm f/4 IS, Zeiss 21mm ZE
Speedlite 580ex II, Canon 430ex
By getting you a prime, your feet will become your zoom.:D
As I reported earlier, throughout 20+ years of full time shooting, I don't recall ever being asked to stop using a flash at any indoor high school or college JV or Varsity event.
Considering the height of most gym ceilings, I don't think you can rely on that often.
Thank you. That's very gratifying.
B&H Photo-Video
FYI, The High ISO Noise Reduction is not doing what you think it is. It's meant for long duration shutter speeds (think multi-second open shutter). What it does is after you take the shot, the camera takes another "dark frame" shot by turning on the sensor but not opening hte shutter. This gives the current set of hot pixels. It then subtracts those hot pixels from the original image. You are effectively doubling the time spent taking the image. AND, IIRC it does not actually activate until you are on at least a 2sec shutter speed (check your manual on this, I'm going off reading my 20D manual a long while ago). Don't bother with it, it's meant for night shooting with extremely long shutter openings.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
No dispute Henry. That's why I qualified my story. I swear there is something wierd about where I currently live.
The story I related didn't happen to me, I was a spectator, but I saw it happen. It was another parent shooting their own child. I thought they were being very professional and they were not flashing that frequently nor were they in the way of anyone.
One of the coaches, I don't remember exactly who because I didn't know the coaches and I wasn't really paying attention, approached one of the refs and then the parent was told to stop using flash. I talked to the parent later and they (the parent) were not told why there were told to stop using flash.
I have my own stories, but they don't relate to indoor sports or flash usage, so it just would seem there is something about where I live.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Well you've been quite lucky. It didn't happen all the time but I've had it happen a few times in my past. More at Volleyball games then at Basketball games.
And I get deeper and deeper
The more I see the more I fall no place to hide
You better take the call I get deeper and deeper...The Fixx
I have been in enough gyms to know it's an exception as I haven't been in one that I couldn't. With 1.8 glass, and even 2.8, they pick up enough light to compliment gym light. The three pictures I posted were from a gym that has the highest HS ceiling I have been in.
Actually, the new 40D does BOTH the High ISO Noise Reduction that I mentioned and the long exposure noise reduction that you described. One difference from what you described, however is that the long exposure NR kicks in at 1 second and above if it is activated.
The High ISO NR is Custom Function II-2 and the manual states, "Although noise reduction is applied at all ISO speeds, it is particularly effective at high ISO speeds."
I love my 40D!
I have found they don't like flash when you are right on the floor. However, from the stands, behind the benches or at the end of the courts has been OK for me so far, in regards to volleyball.
Cool, that was not mentioned much if at all as new fancy features. Learn something new every day.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I have read extensivley in the sports section of this site and it looks like I can't go wrong with that combo. I absolutely can't wait to get it and play with it!
My daughter has a tournament next weekend. I hope it gets here before that.
I do have a question for B&H though....On your web site, the Canon equipment.....some is listed as "Imported" and some as "USA" The price usually varies a little....what is the difference in the equipment? I prefer keeping my business in the US but I know even those are probably overseas????
Thank you all for your advice and input. And, thanks to the reference of B&H. I like his web site and prices!
I will let you know how the combo turns out for me soon.
This is an awesome forum! Keep it up everyone!
"Imported" items usually do not have a valid U.S. warranty. The items themselves are identical in most cases. I recommend purchasing the domestic version just to get the warranty.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
When you get your lens and shoot a game, it will take some time getting used to. If you see you miss some shots because it doesn't focus fast enough, pre focus on certain shots you want to get such as spikes or blocks. That way, the lens doesn't have to hunt as much. You will get frustrated if you follow the ball around.
If you want to get some close ups, you will be able to get courtside, but don't use the flash that close. I have kneeled down by the scorers table. From that postion, you can get digs on both sides of the court and since you are on the same level, they look very dramatic. Spikes and blocks also look very good from that angle, but harder to get because the 85 mm is too much at times and you will not have much to work with in regards to cropping. When you do get something good however, it's great.
If you get behind the benches, you can probably get away with using flash as the spikers are looking towards the middle of the court and the blockers are behind. Try direct and bounce flash, and no flash. Use the warmups as opportunities to test various shots you want and you can get feedback from the players if flash is bothering them.
You can also get some real good shots be being in the stands just a bit higher than the net either straight in line with it, or the middle half of one court. You will soon find one particular spot or two you really like.
What are the differences between US and Grey Market items?
B&H Photo-Video
I am anxiously awaiting my new "toys" for this weekend. I hope it makes it!
I will let you all know how well things turn out whenever I do get it and get to try it out.
The one thing about L glass verses the 1.8 is the focus will be on more often. If you are shooting at 1.8 you have to be right on or you won't have focus at all!
I am still debating whether to get the 85 1.8 or not... but right now I am shooting with 2.8L IS 70-200 and it is great for bball and vball...
Feel free to see my samples on flickr.
Vball
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tstride/sets/72157602137868189/
Men's Bball
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tstride/sets/72157603332551280/
We are talking about the difference between high school and college lighting though. (D1 at that)
The difference though between the 85 and the 70-200 which is nice is you don't have to walk around to get different angles and different shots... Sometimes when you work with a prime all the time you get bored b/c your shots all become the same.
However it will be nice to have a good flash and good prime! Have fun!
http://stridephoto.carbonmade.com
Well, my new 85mm lens and 430X Speedlight came yesterday:D (Wed). I played with it last night in the family room.....taking portraits of my daughter with it and the kit lens and the flash on and off. It appears that it is going to be LOTS O' fun!
She has a tournanment this weekend. Only problem is, it's at a small private school and the gym has little room for me to move around. I'll adjust though.
I am real excited about the possiblity of finally getting some good quality pics of her and her team. I have gotten SEVERAL good content pics over the last many years.....but they are ALL DARK. :cry
I think I am on the right path now!!!
I will post some of my results for your critique if you would like. Question though. I'm new to posting pics on forums....I have done it on ThumperTalk and ADVrider using Photobucket. Can I use Photobucket on here??? Is it ok to post pics from there or do you have to use SmugMug which I see on here a lot but know nothin' about.
Wish me luck!
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
OK folks, I go some pix last weekend with the new lens/flash combo. (With mixed results) I am going to post some of them for your C&C. I guess I will post them under the "sports" forum.
Thanks to each of you for your wonderful advice and thanks to B&H for prompt delivery of a good product. I will be dealing with you all again in the near future.
I got this photo from one of the dance show last week. I was sitting about 30 meters away and use handheld and IS was on. No flash at all.
The low light and fast dance action was a real challenge. But the IS combined with the low noise level of high ISO in 5D delivered a reasonable good result.
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
Isn't it though.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
Nothing is perfect in live.
Got another one with the sames lens from the same seat when the white spot light on.
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
The first time that I used flash straight on, I hardly took any photos. But when I saw that the game was actually over, just waiting for time to run out. I did shoot one player only about 20 feet from me, driving the ball toward me. Since I usually stand under or near the basket. After the shot, I quickly pulled my camera away to see if there was any reaction from the player. Which gave no indication that the flash bothered them. But after the game, I even asked the player if the flash bothered them. I had to tell the when and what they were doing at the time because the flash never bothered the player and this was one of star players who has the most shots taken of them.
When visiting an opposing teams gym, I try and find the AD and ask first if they can't be found then I ask the opposing team's coach. People give a lot of hoopla about photographers using flash. But watch the stands and see how many times flashes goes off.
Sorry for the rant, but I have come to the conclusion that when someone complains about a flash, in gyms is just looking for an excuse to justify their lack of ability to win.
Now to the question on the thread about volleyball. I have also shot volleyball. Since the players are more stationery then with basketball, I can use a prime. I have purchased the 85mm f/1.8 and works great. Since
I now have two cameras, thinking of purchasing the 135mm f/2.0. My situation may be different them most. I am able to walk around and have
plenty of room to more.
Have fun in what ever you choose
rovowen