deposit refunds

dogwood

I started requiring deposits to book shoots about a year ago. Haven't had a no-show since then

But I just got an email that my client for next weekend (she booked me both days) may cancel since "something came up."

Yes, I have a refund policy but just wanted to run it past everyone here to make sure it's reasonable (and since I've never had to use it!)

My policy is to provide a full refund if a client cancels 14-days in advance of a scheduled shoot.

If they cancel less than 14-days in advance, I assess a processing fee of 20-percent of the total price of the shoot and refund the rest of the deposit.

Any feedback on this policy?

One thing I'm worried about though is should I make it clear that no refunds are offered if they cancel the day of the shoot? And should the "processing fee" increase the closer it is to the shoot date?

Anyone care to share their own deposit refund policies? :ear

Icebear

My business (architectural photography) is probably different from yours, but I just reschedule. I've never had to actually deal with a cancelation. If the postponement is within 24 hours (stuff happens) I add $100 to the fee when we actually do the assignment, and yes, that's made clear up front.

ziggy53

It is my understanding that a "deposit" may be refundable at any time, and may be contested by the client because of the legal definition of the word "deposit".

Stating in a contract that a deposit is "non-refundable" at a particular point in time is apparently contrary to the legal definition of the word deposit.

My contracts state that the deposit may be refunded until two weeks before the event. After that the deposit becomes a "retainer" and is non-refundable and becomes "liquidated damages" to me and my property. Apparently these statements are defendable in a court of law.

If the breach in the contract is truly because of events beyond the client's control, I would gladly return the retainer in hopes of future business.

If I feel the client is in any way attempting to defraud me or take advantage, they are in for a fight.

dogwood

ziggy53 wrote:

It is my understanding that a "deposit" may be refundable at any time, and may be contested by the client because of the legal definition of the word "deposit".

Stating in a contract that a deposit is "non-refundable" at a particular point in time is apparently contrary to the legal definition of the word deposit.

My contracts state that the deposit may be refunded until two weeks before the event. After that the deposit becomes a "retainer" and is non-refundable and becomes "liquidated damages" to me and my property. Apparently these statements are defendable in a court of law.

If the breach in the contract is truly because of events beyond the client's control, I would gladly return the retainer in hopes of future business.

If I feel the client is in any way attempting to defraud me or take advantage, they are in for a fight.

Thanks Ziggy! This is very, very helpful. I just changed my deposit wording to include these terms.

dogwood

Okay, so I know the internet is no substitute for an actual attorney, but based on the info here, I changed my deposit refund/cancellation policy to read as below. Anything I might be overlooking?

"Full refund of deposit only if photo shoot is canceled 14-days in advance of the date booked.

If you cancel the photo shoot less than 14-days in advance, the deposit will be considered a non-refundable retainer and a processing fee of 20-percent of the full cost of the shoot will be assessed. The rest of your retainer will be refunded.

If you do not show up or cancel the shoot less than 24-hours in advance, the deposit will be considered a non-refundable retainer for liquidated damages."

ian408

You might want to review the wording. The direction Ziggy's taking allows you
the latitude of matching the circumstance as required where yours says you'll
only keep twenty percent of the deposit (up to 24 hours prior).

ziggy53

dogwood wrote:

Okay, so I know the internet is no substitute for an actual attorney, but based on the info here, I changed my deposit refund/cancellation policy to read as below. Anything I might be overlooking?

"Full refund of deposit only if photo shoot is canceled 14-days in advance of the date booked.

If you cancel the photo shoot less than 14-days in advance, the deposit will be considered(1) a non-refundable retainer and a processing fee of 20-percent of the full cost of the shoot will be assessed. The rest of your retainer will be refunded.

If you do not show up or cancel the shoot less than 24-hours in advance, the deposit(2) will be considered a non-refundable retainer for liquidated damages."

In the first case (1) you still allow for discretion and opinion. You need to be more assertive to eliminate misunderstanding.

"At 14 days prior to the event, the deposit becomes a non-refundable retainer, additionally subject to a 20% processing fee against the full cost of the shoot."

... might be a better description of your intent, but do run it by an attorney before you deliver to a client.

The second case (2) just needs a slight change to, " If you do not show up or cancel the shoot less than 24-hours in advance, the non-refundable retainer will be considered compensation to me, "Dogwood Photography", for liquidated damages."

Continuing to use the word "deposit" could be confusing and contestable. I still find the two paragraphs a little confusing, so you may want to further refine them. Again, most attorneys will charge $100 or so to review a simple contract and that is money well spent.

dogwood

ian408 wrote:

You might want to review the wording. The direction Ziggy's taking allows you
the latitude of matching the circumstance as required where yours says you'll
only keep twenty percent of the deposit (up to 24 hours prior).

Good point. Thanks.

dogwood

ziggy53 wrote:

In the first case (1) you still allow for discretion and opinion. You need to be more assertive to eliminate misunderstanding.

"At 14 days prior to the event, the deposit becomes a non-refundable retainer, additionally subject to a 20% processing fee against the full cost of the shoot."

... might be a better description of your intent, but do run it by an attorney before you deliver to a client.

The second case (2) just needs a slight change to, " If you do not show up or cancel the shoot less than 24-hours in advance, the non-refundable retainer will be considered compensation to me, "Dogwood Photography", for liquidated damages."

Continuing to use the word "deposit" could be confusing and contestable. I still find the two paragraphs a little confusing, so you may want to further refine them. Again, most attorneys will charge $100 or so to review a simple contract and that is money well spent.

Thank you, Ziggy. I'll review my wording again. This is exactly the kind of rough-draft policy I'm trying to figure out. The attorney review of my policy is probably a good idea too. Thanks for your help.

ian408

Your attorney can assist you with terms and conditions that might be more
in line with local customs as well which is another reason to seek the advice
of legal council.

Angelo

ziggy53 wrote:

In the first case (1) you still allow for discretion and opinion. You need to be more assertive to eliminate misunderstanding.

"At 14 days prior to the event, the deposit becomes a non-refundable retainer, additionally subject to a 20% processing fee against the full cost of the shoot."

... might be a better description of your intent, but do run it by an attorney before you deliver to a client.

The second case (2) just needs a slight change to, " If you do not show up or cancel the shoot less than 24-hours in advance, the non-refundable retainer will be considered compensation to me, "Dogwood Photography", for liquidated damages."

Continuing to use the word "deposit" could be confusing and contestable. I still find the two paragraphs a little confusing, so you may want to further refine them. Again, most attorneys will charge $100 or so to review a simple contract and that is money well spent.

the term "partial pre-payment" is also effective and defensible

dogwood

Angelo wrote:

the term "partial pre-payment" is also effective and defensible

Thanks. This is all new to me so I appreciate the tips.

bham

It may be easier just to call it a retainer from the beginning. Having to have a deposit then it becoming a retainer, etc just adds more language to the contract. I think simplier is better.

dogwood

bham wrote:

It may be easier just to call it a retainer from the beginning. Having to have a deposit then it becoming a retainer, etc just adds more language to the contract. I think simplier is better.

So you think something like, "retainer required to reserve the date" instead of "deposit required to reserve the date"? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds odd. I guess if it makes the courts happy, that's what I'll need to do.

It's ironic because I live in Oregon and we were the first state to require a "deposit" on cans or bottles. It's pretty obvious that if you don't carry out your part of the deal (ie return the bottles or cans to the store), you don't get your deposit back. I sure wish booking a client for a photo shoot was that simple!

Scott_Quier

Weddings are a different animal than most shoots, but...

I don't ask for a deposit because, as pointed out by Ziggy, deposits are defined as being refundable.

I do, however, require a Reservation Fee to actually reserve the day. In my contract (and in all verbal discussions, though that carries NO weight...), the day is reserved only when I get a signed contract and the reservation fee. If the client later needs to move the date, the reservation fee is 100% transferable. This avoids all the issues of changing the name of the money and when that change takes place, etc.

Clients cancel the wedding because they broke up - sorry, money is mine. Because bride or groom, or parents died - it's all theirs, with my sympathy and condolences. Extended family issues - on a case by case basis.

dogwood

Scott_Quier wrote:

Weddings are a different animal than most shoots, but...

I don't ask for a deposit because, as pointed out by Ziggy, deposits are defined as being refundable.

I do, however, require a Reservation Fee to actually reserve the day. In my contract (and in all verbal discussions, though that carries NO weight...), the day is reserved only when I get a signed contract and the reservation fee. If the client later needs to move the date, the reservation fee is 100% transferable. This avoids all the issues of changing the name of the money and when that change takes place, etc.

Clients cancel the wedding because they broke up - sorry, money is mine. Because bride or groom, or parents died - it's all theirs, with my sympathy and condolences. Extended family issues - on a case by case basis.

Thanks for sharing Scott. Yeah-- I once had a shoot booked for a maternity clothing designer-- only her model went into labor two days before the shoot! Considering the circumstances, I did allow her to reschedule without any extra fees. Life does happen at times. I'm more interested in weeding out the "something-came-up-and-I-need-to-canel" clients.