Bridge camera for learning?
tipsinartok
Registered Users Posts: 61 Big grins
Hi all,
This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for a few days and already found lots of useful information. I hope this question hasn't been asked before. I tried searching but didn't find anything very relevant. However, if I've missed something please feel free to point me in the right direction!
I've always been interested in photography. I inherited my grandfather's film SLR when I was 13 because of that. (It's broken unfortunately, has been since I got it, so I need to see if it's worth fixing one of these days.) However, until recently I've only really been able to afford cheap point and shoots.
I'm in a position now I can afford a better camera, and I'd really love to learn to take good pictures like the ones I see here. However, I don't think I want to start with an SLR. I have a 7 month old and I think carrying around her diaper bag + camera and lenses just isn't going to happen. What I'm looking for is a good fixed-lens camera with good manual functions that I can learn on. I want to learn about exposure, lighting, white balance, composition... Basically everything from taking a shot to post-processing, though my main goal is to get a good picture out of the camera with minimal processing needed. Then when/if I am comfortable with it and want to do more, I'll look into a DSLR.
I'm leaning towards the Canon I5-IS right now, but a friend (who is a pro photographer) told me to check out Fuji's Finepix s8000 and s8100. She said the higher ISO on that camera would be great for learning. I haven't managed to find one to try out yet, but it seems to me the manual functions on the Fujis are in menus and a little more of a production to get to, is that correct? I've checked out an Olympus as well but liked the Canon better.
My interests lie mostly in nature photography: wildlife, insects, landscapes, etc. I'd also love to take shots of kids. I've got a friend with a surfing website who has invited me to take some surfing shots to put up on his site too, though I'm not sure I'll find a non-SLR that will cover this whole range of things.
Anyway, I know ultimately the decision is a very personal one, but are there any other cameras I should look into? Anything to think about given what I've said above? (Or should I provide more information?) There is so much information out there and so much to think about that I find it a little overwhelming at times.
Thanks!
This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for a few days and already found lots of useful information. I hope this question hasn't been asked before. I tried searching but didn't find anything very relevant. However, if I've missed something please feel free to point me in the right direction!
I've always been interested in photography. I inherited my grandfather's film SLR when I was 13 because of that. (It's broken unfortunately, has been since I got it, so I need to see if it's worth fixing one of these days.) However, until recently I've only really been able to afford cheap point and shoots.
I'm in a position now I can afford a better camera, and I'd really love to learn to take good pictures like the ones I see here. However, I don't think I want to start with an SLR. I have a 7 month old and I think carrying around her diaper bag + camera and lenses just isn't going to happen. What I'm looking for is a good fixed-lens camera with good manual functions that I can learn on. I want to learn about exposure, lighting, white balance, composition... Basically everything from taking a shot to post-processing, though my main goal is to get a good picture out of the camera with minimal processing needed. Then when/if I am comfortable with it and want to do more, I'll look into a DSLR.
I'm leaning towards the Canon I5-IS right now, but a friend (who is a pro photographer) told me to check out Fuji's Finepix s8000 and s8100. She said the higher ISO on that camera would be great for learning. I haven't managed to find one to try out yet, but it seems to me the manual functions on the Fujis are in menus and a little more of a production to get to, is that correct? I've checked out an Olympus as well but liked the Canon better.
My interests lie mostly in nature photography: wildlife, insects, landscapes, etc. I'd also love to take shots of kids. I've got a friend with a surfing website who has invited me to take some surfing shots to put up on his site too, though I'm not sure I'll find a non-SLR that will cover this whole range of things.
Anyway, I know ultimately the decision is a very personal one, but are there any other cameras I should look into? Anything to think about given what I've said above? (Or should I provide more information?) There is so much information out there and so much to think about that I find it a little overwhelming at times.
Thanks!
Please don't be afraid to critique my photos, I'm here to learn and get better.
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
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Comments
I've heard good things about the Canon G9 but haven yet to even see one in town, let alone try it out.
I use a Panasonic Lumix LX2 as my non-dSLR camera. It is a P&S but has full manual controls - the dial on top actually looks vey similar to my Canon 10d dial. It also has 2 modes of IS and picture styles.
The only thing that I have to go through menus for on the LX2 is to set the ISO, and it is on the first menu when I push the menu button - so not too bad. Everything else on the camera is dial/switch operated. Also it gives the ability to take photos in 16:9 which is nice for display on widescreen TV and digital frames.
I think it prudent to ask what sort of capabilities you desire?
RAW image files?
Built-in IS?
Equivalent zoom range?
Accessory lenses?
Hot shoe? (External flash)
Responsiveness?
Optical viewfinder?
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
The most important thing to me really is that I can play with the manual functions easily and be able to preview what certain changes do. I would love something with RAW image files, as I already am pretty good with PhotoShop and am trying to get better. IS is definitely a plus.
I'm a little ignorant about zoom ranges still, to be honest. One of my biggest problems with my current camera (a cheap Fuji FinePix A820) is that if I zoom at all, I have to hold the camera very still to get a good shot. I'd like to be able to zoom in and still take decent shots without a tripod. That could be user error too though.
A hot shoe for flash would be a nice benefit, but probably not necessary. If at any point I decided that I was really enjoying myself as much as I think I will and wanted to get into it more, I would look into DSLR's at that point. Same with accessory lenses. I don't think I would spend the money on accessory lenses for a bridge camera.
I would like something fairly responsive. As I said above, I have a seven month old and at times with my current camera, by the time the camera has focused and taken the shot she has moved. Since I'm interested in taking pictures of wildlife and kids, I'm thinking responsiveness would be pretty important. I'm not sure what you mean about the optical viewfinder. Do some cameras not have one? I use the LCD screen way more than a viewfinder with my current camera, but most (all) of my pictures currently are just snap shots.
Other things that might be important to me but aren't priorities: I love the tilt LCD on the Canon I5 IS I looked at. It seems that would make taking pictures at different levels easier. I like that I can flip it so the screen is protected when not in use, since my camera often gets stashed in the diaper bag rather than a proper carrying case. Though on the other hand, that's probably a habit I should change if I buy a nicer camera. I also tend to take a lot of one-handed pictures of myself and my daughter together, so the tilt LCD screen and a camera that's easy to use one handed would be a nice plus, though definitely not priorities. I live in BC, so something semi-water resistant would be good, so I don't have to worry so much about rain.
Thanks!
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
I still love my Minolta DiMage A2 which you might find as used, or perhaps the similar A200. It still provides an accomplished zoom along with IS and complete control over manual settings.
It, the A2, is responsive enough for limited sports in good light outdoors, as is true of many more modern digicams. As your child gets older, I suspect you will want for more responsiveness still.
Back to modern cameras, the Canon G9 is probably the most accomplished current camera in fixed lens format. Our own Pathfinder has this camera and is able to derive splendid images along with his dSLR systems.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
IMO, there are two priorities in shooting kids and dogs.
First and foremost:
It really helps to get a camera with the shortest lag time between pressing the shutter button and the camera acquiring the image. It is so easy to miss pictures of lively kids and puppies when you press the shutter and have to wait until the camera shoots.
I was shooting film SLR camera systems when I needed a digital camera in order to shoot pictures of the purebred Maltese puppies we were breeding to email to prospective clients. I originally purchased a P&S digital camera for this task since (to tell the truth) I did not consider early DSLR cameras to be worth the exorbitant price charged for them.
I paid a goodly sum for an Olympus 5050Z which is a camera which will produce nice imagery but, which seemed to take eons between pressing the shutter button and taking the picture. Even with pre-focusing, the camera was just too slow. I got tired of images showing the tails of my puppies as they were exiting the frame between the time I pressed the shutter and the camera acquired the image. Kids are just as fidgety and even faster than puppies.
Switching to a DSLR solved that problem. However, there are (I am told) newer non-DSLR cameras which have a faster acquisition time.
Secondly:
IMO - you really need a camera which will accept a separate flash unit to get good pictures. Let's face it; the on-board camera flash is almost useless in getting good images.
Get a flash that you can bounce and a flash that you can use as fill flash outdoors. There are some fairly inexpensive units (mostly using non-through the lens exposure control) that will suit your purpose.
Believe me, the difference between bounced flash indoors and straight-on flash with the on-board unit is night and day. Also the difference between shooting outdoors with fill flash and shooting without the fill is also great.
P&S cameras are evolving. However, a used Canon XT with a kit lens will probably cost less than a good P&S and will (IMO again) be far more flexible and not really that much heavier.
Of course, I'm biased, as I also happen to be selling one right now.
If you're going to use a camera of this size IMO you'd be better off with a small DSLR D40/X60, A200, K200, Xti/Xsi and a 18-2?? something lens.
Size would be similar and low light shots would be worlds better.
Gene
A couple more questions, do lenses that fit the cheaper Canon and Nikon SLR's also fit the more expensive ones? Should I start a new thread asking some differences between the XT and the D40? (Not sure of proper protocol/etiquette in that respect here.) I went to dpreview.com to compare all the cameras you all listed and am liking the specs on the XT and D40 best, besides the size, but really the specs mean less to me then how easy it will be for a beginner like me to learn with, since that is my goal. I don't need a camera that is going to take award winning shots, I need one that I can experiment with easily.
Or should I get my grandfather's old camera (it's a Mamiya ZE) and learn with film on that? :giggle (Mostly kidding about that though!)
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
That would be called "shutter lag" in stats, if it is there.
Most of the lenses for the XT will also work on the other Canon dSLR cams, with the one exception of the 5D and some of the 1D cameras (i think). Basically, the lenses that are specified as EF-S will not work with the 5D and other Full Frame size sensors.
shutterlag!
Canon EOS 30D, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, Tokina 12-24 f/4. Sigma 1.4 TC, Feisol 3401 Tripod + Feisol ballhead, Metz 58 AF-1 C, ebay triggers.
Yeah, but the question is "what lens?" If you're only going to have one lens, a DSLR may not be the best option because of the limited zoom range you'll have. If you see yourself springing for some extra lenses though, it may indeed be the way to go.
The time between pressing the shutter button and actually takingthe photo is called 'SHUTTER LAG".......this can be a real prob if your shooting fast paced things (sports, wilderbeats charging you..etc...etc)
a cam that you can really grow with but is only available used is the Konica Minolta A2......here is why I recommend this camera.....
1- small size
2- 8mp
3- 28-200 zoom lens (non interchanageable of coiurse...it is a PROSUMER p/s
4-uses CF cards : easier to change if hands are cold...personally I just do not like SD (and smaller) sized cards...
5- instead of having 6, 9, 12, 55 focus points to choose from...this little gem has a real floating focus point......that makes getting certain things in focus a lot easier when you start doing artsy shots...like close-ups and macros
6- the viewfinder is an electronic viewfinder and that allows me to see subtle changes in light when shooting landscapes, as I am changing the aperature
7- not a feature I use but...if ya want and you have at least a 2gb card....you can shoot short movies of baby playing or what have you....
The above is list is in no certain order but I would put # 5 as extremely important to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This camera is running anywhere from $150 - 500 on ebay in really good (almost new) condition..... and you can even get it with a Square Trade (ebay) waarranty for upto 2 or 3 yrs in most cases.........
HTH
For Canon the answer is in general yes. You have two varieties of lenses currently: EF-S and EF. The EF-S lenses only mount on crop bodies (Rebels, 20D, 30D, 40D). The EF lenses mount on any body. For Nikon I'll have to defer to a Nikon user as it's more complicated--some bodies have AF motors some don't and some lenses have AF motors & some don't; very confusing.
Sure, why not? If it works it's a perfectly good alternative & you can learn a lot with it. There's less automatic features, but then you are forced to learn how to set the camera manually that way--you just miss out on the instant feedback of digital. Nothing wrong with film, it has a feel the digital cannot replicate (and some still argue it's superior...at 35mm I'm not so sure, but MF & LF sure). I've added MF film back to my toolbox with a Mamiya 645.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
Now don't get Harry started...:D
Mike Mattix
Tulsa, OK
"There are always three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth" - Unknown
Otherwise I would look at the Panasonic FZ-50, and the new Fuji S100fs.
Let's see, telephoto, macro, wide, fast, all things that you're best with an SLR for. You can find compacts that will do reasonable jobs of all four, and even a very good job of macro, I think they've already been mentioned, however:
If you think you may eventually get more serious, go for the SLR, a fixed lens camera never evolves or upgrades, but every time I add something new to my rebel, I find out it does just that much more, and am impressed every time. A 50f1.8, perfect example, can do things that no compact will ever, ever be able to do, and it's the cheapest lens canon produces. I expect to total 5 or more nice lenses before my camera gets replaced as the weakest link, and even then, that doesn't mean it'll be put to pasture, it'll still be handy for when I don't want to mount and unmount lenses on my new camera all the time.
In cheap DSLRs, as has been said, look at older rebels, and olders Dxxs, maybe not the D40, because as has been stated, there are a lot of cheaper lenses it can't work with. A years-old digital rebel, however, will mount every canon mount lens made in the last 20 years (that's a gigantic used market out there!), and put an awesome sensor at your disposal, even if it might lack some of the newer features.
My most specific recommendation, look for a refurbished XTi, and try to get the new IS kit lens, I think the autofocus improvements over the XT make a lot of sense, and if I had it to do over again, I'd have waited the 2 months after my XT purchase to grab an XTi...
I thought I wanted to "step up" to a DSLR. But after reviewing tons of spec sheets and asking for (and receiving) lots of help in this forum, I finally came to the conclusion that my desire to go DSLR was more ego-driven than need-driven.
I chose the VLUX1 becasue it had a several features I really wanted (that NONE of the DSLRs in the sub-$1000 range had)...a SINGLE lens solution with good zoom capability (12X optical); an articulating flip-out display; reasonably high ISO capability 1600 (even 3200 if pushed) for low-light situations, etc. And the VLUX1 will allow you to shoot RAW, and go completely manual if you want/need to.
I've had the camera for about 2 months now and am not disappointed in my choice (although, after shooting in some fluorescent-lit auditorium situations, I felt compelled to purchase the compatible Leica flash attachment, which set me back some serious $$$...but I'm still in for about $1200 total).
With the help you get around here, I'm sure you will find something that suits your needs. Have fun.
Robinivich, I'm leaning in that direction. I missed out on an open-box Rebel XTi for less than $400Cdn over the weekend. I'm going to keep an eye out though.
I've been tempted by the s9100 too, though haven't managed to find anyone carrying it around here to see it.
claudermilk, my Mamiya doesn't work. The lever to wind the film to next picture doesn't work. I am going to take it in though to see how much it would cost to fix. If it's cheap, I may use it alongside a digital.
Thanks again all, I'm slowly finding all the cameras you're recommending and reading about them and trying them out. Something's bound to be a perfect fit.
Canon XS with kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/5-5.6, 420EX external flash
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I had never heard of the Canon I5 until this thread, and I looked it up. I thought you ment the S5 IS (8mp). I have the S3 IS (6mp), and although it is a little larger than the I5, it does so much. The S5 IS is the newer version, and one thing it has that mine doesn't is the hot shoe. I use a Canon external flash, but with the hot shoe I can also link to a full studio light system. Not that you will be wanting or needing that any time soon. Look up the specs on the S3 or the S5 at dpreview.com, and check the prices. I think you'll find it does everything you want it to do at a very reasonable price. See my site for what I produce with the S3.
Jerry