Everytime I see a comment like this I chuckle, as if this is somehow cheating.
One of the great landscape photographers of our time Ansel Adams always created a multi-page instruction on "how to print" each of his prints. In "The Print" he showed 9 pages of instructions and diagrams used to create his "Clearing Winter Storm" print. He stated that "Many are taught that, when you have a good black and a good white in a print, then you have a good print. Actually when you achieve a good black and a good white in a print, you are then ready to begin to print the negative. You have just reached the point of having a good test strip." Ansel (and many of his peers) used dodging and burning just as we use layers and masks. He never considered it "cheating" to work the negative to get the image he wanted from the negative. We should not consider it "cheating" to use Photoshop to do the same thing.
It is somewhat different when you use Photoshop to create something that was not there in the first place. Not that this is "cheating" but as long as it is known that the image is not reality then if the photographer likes it, why not??
nice statement dmmattix,
I actually teach a basic PS course at a photo club and i always use Ansel Adams as my reference for a master of processing prints after the photo was taken. He was and always will be my inspiration for technique and mastering light. He knew what he wanted in a picture and stopped at nothing to acheive it by the set up of the original shot to the developement of the negs and of course even the delopment of the final print. From what i have read, he never seemed satisfied with his final prints and tended to tweak his photos over and over with no end.
I fortuitously aquired a copy of "Ansel Adams in Color" just last week. I was floored to learn what I'm sure many of those here already know: he exposed many color negs throughout his career, starting with the advent of Kodachrome in 1935!
He had a lot of mixed feelings about color photography but "control" seemed to be the main reason for his publishing hardly any. IOW, he was dissatisfied with NOT being able to tweak and modify the images post-exposure (this control was available w/ B&W). He was adamant that photographs do not represent "reality", and that artistic photography is essentially impressionistic.
He expressed great hope and anticipattion for "electronic" imaging. He died 6 years before Photoshop 1.0. :cry
Not to flail the praise horse to death, dadwtwins, But I think Mr. Adams would appreciate your photo a bit.
Peace,
Sanaka
WooHooo! New dSLR!:barb : Canon XSi / 450D
Kit lens for now: 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS
I fortuitously acquired a copy of "Ansel Adams in Color" just last week. I was floored to learn what I'm sure many of those here already know: he exposed many color negs throughout his career, starting with the advent of Kodachrome in 1935!
He had a lot of mixed feelings about color photography but "control" seemed to be the main reason for his publishing hardly any. IOW, he was dissatisfied with NOT being able to tweak and modify the images post-exposure (this control was available w/ B&W). He was adamant that photographs do not represent "reality", and that artistic photography is essentially impressionistic.
He expressed great hope and anticipation for "electronic" imaging. He died 6 years before Photoshop 1.0. :cry
Not to flail the praise horse to death, dadwtwins, But I think Mr. Adams would appreciate your photo a bit.
Peace,
Sanaka
Not only was that informative but you gave me the best compliment I have ever received.
I am floored and extremely humbled by the overwhelming responses and comments that I have received from this picture.
When I first saw the brightness of the moon and the way the clouds were so massive and clear, my heart raced with excitement. I had to get this shot eventhough I just worked 18 hours straight. it was 3:30 am and I still had to wake up in a few hours to take my kids to school.
None of my life worries mattered at that moment because the image in my head and what i was seeing completely possessed and mesmerized me. The only thought in my overly tired and stressed out head was a sense of awe at what nature was showing me and what she was expressing to me at that moment. She, Mother Nature, was showing me and anyone else up at that crazy time how small and insignificant we all are compared to the big picture.
The picture went with what i was feeling at the moment and how i was looking at my life at that moment. It is not often I am able to speak through my photography in such a profound way. I am now convinced that i must be totally exhausted and worn down in order to see, compose and take better pictures.
In case anyone wants to learn the theory of how to capture special moments in time, please join me in working way too much, way too late with way too many responsibilities. I will guaranteed the photographer in you will improve dramatically.
wow... superb shot Daniel!
amazing clarity and wow factor. I'm sure you'll treasure this photo (and the adventures along the way to shooting it) for a long time...
Great job!
The photo is in his public galleries. Travel-> San Francisco in B&W on the last page (4). I could post a link but maybe Daniel took it down for a reason.
Still waiting in anticipation to see this photo. Relinking would be great.
Ok, really sorry about that. I wanted to take off the watermark but bring the resolution down to 72 before I reposted it. I guess i forgot to change the original post to reflect the correct url.
Ok, really sorry about that. I wanted to take off the watermark but bring the resolution down to 72 before I reposted it. I guess i forgot to change the original post to reflect the correct url.
Looks good now! Thanks! barb
Save $5 off your first year's SmugMug image hosting with coupon code hccesQbqNBJbc
Impossible single exposure
You must be kidding of course. The different elements in this image are impossible to properly expose on one exposure. Nice composite though.
"If you've found a magic that does something for you, honey, stick to it. Never change it." - Mae West, to Edith Head.
"Every guy has to have one weakness - and it might as well be a good one." - Shell Scott: Dance With the Dead by Richard S. Prather
1500 digs and almost 20,000 hits on flickr. All this attention has made me very humble. I love reading the comments from some of this people. Some are very complimentry and some are written as if i stole there life savings from them
It has beena very interesting ride since I posted this pic a couple of weeks ago.
Kudos!
Congrats on this beautiful shot...a very fresh view of The City I think. It has a classic quality to it a la Ansel Adams, or even an old B&W movie set.
I'm curious about how you blended subjects that have very different EVs--the end result looks great.
Everytime I see a comment like this I chuckle, as if this is somehow cheating.
One of the great landscape photographers of our time Ansel Adams always created a multi-page instruction on "how to print" each of his prints. In "The Print" he showed 9 pages of instructions and diagrams used to create his "Clearing Winter Storm" print. He stated that "Many are taught that, when you have a good black and a good white in a print, then you have a good print. Actually when you achieve a good black and a good white in a print, you are then ready to begin to print the negative. You have just reached the point of having a good test strip." Ansel (and many of his peers) used dodging and burning just as we use layers and masks. He never considered it "cheating" to work the negative to get the image he wanted from the negative. We should not consider it "cheating" to use Photoshop to do the same thing.
It is somewhat different when you use Photoshop to create something that was not there in the first place. Not that this is "cheating" but as long as it is known that the image is not reality then if the photographer likes it, why not??
Absolutely well said ! I have this discussion repeatedly with folks at my community college who use "photoshop" like a bad verb. While I was not a zone system zealot, I learned much from Adam's books when I worked with a wet darkroom. Just as sculpters and painters create their art works as their creative minds 'see' their subject, so do photographers in the final image. Excellent comment !
Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
Not only was that informative but you gave me the best compliment I have ever received.
I am floored and extremely humbled by the overwhelming responses and comments that I have received from this picture.
When I first saw the brightness of the moon and the way the clouds were so massive and clear, my heart raced with excitement. I had to get this shot eventhough I just worked 18 hours straight. it was 3:30 am and I still had to wake up in a few hours to take my kids to school.
None of my life worries mattered at that moment because the image in my head and what i was seeing completely possessed and mesmerized me. The only thought in my overly tired and stressed out head was a sense of awe at what nature was showing me and what she was expressing to me at that moment. She, Mother Nature, was showing me and anyone else up at that crazy time how small and insignificant we all are compared to the big picture.
The picture went with what i was feeling at the moment and how i was looking at my life at that moment. It is not often I am able to speak through my photography in such a profound way. I am now convinced that i must be totally exhausted and worn down in order to see, compose and take better pictures.
In case anyone wants to learn the theory of how to capture special moments in time, please join me in working way too much, way too late with way too many responsibilities. I will guaranteed the photographer in you will improve dramatically.
Seriously, thank you all for such kind comments
Excellent !! This could be the artist statement for your portfolio, as well as the intro panel for a show. Frank, honest and well stated.
Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
Absolutely well said ! I have this discussion repeatedly with folks at my community college who use "photoshop" like a bad verb. While I was not a zone system zealot, I learned much from Adam's books when I worked with a wet darkroom. Just as sculptors and painters create their art works as their creative minds 'see' their subject, so do photographers in the final image. Excellent comment !
arroyoshark, dmmattix and the rest of the DGrin community,
Saying thank you at this point of the thread may start to sound insincere but that could not be any farther from the truth.
When I originally posted this photo on Flickr (please don't bash me:D), I received some nice comments but then I started to also relieve many negative comments. The negative comments went from, "this is a fake", "how dare you try to tell us this is a real photo" to "you should be ashamed for posting a photo that tries to pass off as a real picture", "this is just other peoples work combined into a collage" and my favorites are, "I have this exact picture of the moon and sky as my screen saver, he stole it from me" and "Photos are only real when they come straight out of the camera." I even received emails demanding me to remove my photo or at least fess up that the picture is contrived and not real but only digital art created in photoshop.
I spent many upon many hours in a darkroom with stinky chemicals and a little dangling red light trying to create my vision of a photo I took in my mind with a negative I took at the moment of that envision. When the print was finally complete, not one person ever said to me,"that photo is a fake" or "why would you print that photo when obviously it is contrived." With photoshop, we have entered a whole new world of photography and with that, a whole new world of critics that are not well versed in the different arts and styles of photography.
I would never call a master photographer like Gregory Crewdson photos fake even though he completely manipulates the scene and lighting to match his minds creation of a particular picture. He creates the shot as he sees it in his mind. Isn't that what we all do when taking pictures. We do not run around snapping pictures haphazardly without carefully composing and pre-planning the picture even if that planning is a split second before the actually picture is taken. We all try very hard to take a picture that will instill emotion or story telling by either pre processing, post processing or more commonly using both pre and post processing to achieve that end result we so desperately try to accomplish. We all want that feeling of anxiousness, excitement and enthusiasm we get when we know that we are on a track towards a great photo. Even though we rarely actually get that great photo, it doesn't stop us from pursuing it.
Well unfortunately I was unable to see the supportive comments and started to dwell on the negative ones. My buddy April, AKTSE, from this site suggested that i should post my photo here and see what a community of photographers from novice to pro will say about this photo.
The response was overwhelmingly supportive, frank, sincere, genuine and most of all positive. They did not harp or focus on how the picture was created but rather the end result of the photo itself. The people on this thread shared their feelings or emotions it stirred or support for my attempt to create a scene I envisioned in my mind from when the picture was actually taken.
This site and community of photographers has helped me understand and remind me that the end result of a photographers vision is more important then how they actually reached that particular vision.
With that said, to all of you in this great community and those that help run this awesome site, from a photographer that will always be in a frame of mind of reaching out to learn from others, I dearly thank you.
I thank you for your support, comments of critique, reminders of what is really important and most of all no matter what level of photopraphy you might be in, there is always more to learn.
arroyoshark, dmmattix and the rest of the DGrin community,
Saying thank you at this point of the thread may start to sound insincere but that could not be any farther from the truth.
When I originally posted this photo on Flickr (please don't bash me:D), I received some nice comments but then I started to also relieve many negative comments. The negative comments went from, "this is a fake", "how dare you try to tell us this is a real photo" to "you should be ashamed for posting a photo that tries to pass off as a real picture", "this is just other peoples work combined into a collage" and my favorites are, "I have this exact picture of the moon and sky as my screen saver, he stole it from me" and "Photos are only real when they come straight out of the camera." I even received emails demanding me to remove my photo or at least fess up that the picture is contrived and not real but only digital art created in photoshop.
I spent many upon many hours in a darkroom with stinky chemicals and a little dangling red light trying to create my vision of a photo I took in my mind with a negative I took at the moment of that envision. When the print was finally complete, not one person ever said to me,"that photo is a fake" or "why would you print that photo when obviously it is contrived." With photoshop, we have entered a whole new world of photography and with that, a whole new world of critiques that are not well versed in the different arts and styles of photography.
I would never call a master photographer like Gregory Crewdson photos fake even though he completely manipulates the scene and lighting to match his minds creation of a particular picture. He creates the shot as he sees in his mind. Isn't that what we all do when taking pictures. We do not run around snapping pictures without carefully composing and pre-planning the picture even if that planning is a split second before the actually picture is taken. We all try very hard to take a picture that will instill emotion or story telling by either pre processing, post processing or more commonly using both pre and post processing to achieve that end result we so desperately try to accomplish. We all want that feeling of anxiousness, excitement and enthusiasm we get when we know that we are on a track towards a great photo. Even though we rarely actually get that great photo, it doesn't stop us from pursuing it.
Well unfortunately I was unable to see the supportive comments and started to dwell on the negative ones. My buddy April, AKTSE, from this site suggested that i should post my photo here and see what a community of photographers from novice to pro will say about this photo.
The response was overwhelmingly supportive, frank, sincere, genuine and most of all positive. They did not harp or focus on how the picture was created but rather the end result of the photo itself. The people on this thread shared their feelings or emotions it stirred or support for my attempt to create a scene I envisioned in my mind from when the picture was actually taken.
This site and community of photographers has helped me understand and remind me that the end result of a photographers vision is more important then how they actually reached that particular vision.
With that said, to all of you in this great community and those that help run this awesome site, from a photographer that will always be in a frame of mind of reaching out to learn from others, I dearly thank you.
I thank you for your support, comments of critique, reminders of what is really important and most of all no matter what level of photopraphy you might be in, there is always more to learn.
I think something very pure and beautiful has happened here with your posting of your fantastic image and all the responses that have followed. Daniel, I think your prose is almost as good as your images. Thank you!
I think something very pure and beautiful has happened here with your posting of your fantastic image and all the responses that have followed. Daniel, I think your prose is almost as good as your images. Thank you!
I do not know if my writing prose is a good thing but it is a true statement. My grammer, punctuation and sentence structure has never been very good. My parents, English Majors in their own right, used to cringe when i wrote to them but they were always proud of my attempts of honest communication to them. So I guess that my writing skills even though are prose, still seem genuine.
Comments
Reminds me of the great Album Cover Art of the 70s. Damn, thats awsome.
Albert@WhetstoneImagery.com
http://Albert-Dickson.com
nice statement dmmattix
I actually teach a basic PS course at a photo club and i always use Ansel Adams as my reference for a master of processing prints after the photo was taken. He was and always will be my inspiration for technique and mastering light. He knew what he wanted in a picture and stopped at nothing to acheive it by the set up of the original shot to the developement of the negs and of course even the delopment of the final print. From what i have read, he never seemed satisfied with his final prints and tended to tweak his photos over and over with no end.
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
He had a lot of mixed feelings about color photography but "control" seemed to be the main reason for his publishing hardly any. IOW, he was dissatisfied with NOT being able to tweak and modify the images post-exposure (this control was available w/ B&W). He was adamant that photographs do not represent "reality", and that artistic photography is essentially impressionistic.
He expressed great hope and anticipattion for "electronic" imaging. He died 6 years before Photoshop 1.0. :cry
Not to flail the praise horse to death, dadwtwins, But I think Mr. Adams would appreciate your photo a bit.
Peace,
Sanaka
Kit lens for now: 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS
Not only was that informative but you gave me the best compliment I have ever received.
I am floored and extremely humbled by the overwhelming responses and comments that I have received from this picture.
When I first saw the brightness of the moon and the way the clouds were so massive and clear, my heart raced with excitement. I had to get this shot eventhough I just worked 18 hours straight. it was 3:30 am and I still had to wake up in a few hours to take my kids to school.
None of my life worries mattered at that moment because the image in my head and what i was seeing completely possessed and mesmerized me. The only thought in my overly tired and stressed out head was a sense of awe at what nature was showing me and what she was expressing to me at that moment. She, Mother Nature, was showing me and anyone else up at that crazy time how small and insignificant we all are compared to the big picture.
The picture went with what i was feeling at the moment and how i was looking at my life at that moment. It is not often I am able to speak through my photography in such a profound way. I am now convinced that i must be totally exhausted and worn down in order to see, compose and take better pictures.
In case anyone wants to learn the theory of how to capture special moments in time, please join me in working way too much, way too late with way too many responsibilities
Seriously, thank you all for such kind comments
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
amazing clarity and wow factor. I'm sure you'll treasure this photo (and the adventures along the way to shooting it) for a long time...
Great job!
My Blog
Jethro Kingston Photography
Use this coupon code to get $5 off when joining smugmug: eO3NU7AM85scE
My Smugmug gallery
that should be a :bannedoffence!
Can I have it back? Please? :help
"Set the Gear Shift for the High Gear of Your Soul"
Mike Mattix
Tulsa, OK
"There are always three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth" - Unknown
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
Ok, really sorry about that. I wanted to take off the watermark but bring the resolution down to 72 before I reposted it. I guess i forgot to change the original post to reflect the correct url.
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
You must be kidding of course. The different elements in this image are impossible to properly expose on one exposure. Nice composite though.
The two words out of my mouth were, "Ansel Adams"! I hope that conveys the compliment intended.
__________________
My SmugMug Gallery
My Facebook
"If you've found a magic that does something for you, honey, stick to it. Never change it." - Mae West, to Edith Head.
"Every guy has to have one weakness - and it might as well be a good one." - Shell Scott: Dance With the Dead by Richard S. Prather
Take care (esp. driving at that hour),
- Deanna
My Website | My Blog | My Facebook Page | My YouTube
1500 digs and almost 20,000 hits on flickr. All this attention has made me very humble. I love reading the comments from some of this people. Some are very complimentry
It has beena very interesting ride since I posted this pic a couple of weeks ago.
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
Congrats on this beautiful shot...a very fresh view of The City I think. It has a classic quality to it a la Ansel Adams, or even an old B&W movie set.
I'm curious about how you blended subjects that have very different EVs--the end result looks great.
www.doctorsoup.smugmug.com
Absolutely well said ! I have this discussion repeatedly with folks at my community college who use "photoshop" like a bad verb. While I was not a zone system zealot, I learned much from Adam's books when I worked with a wet darkroom. Just as sculpters and painters create their art works as their creative minds 'see' their subject, so do photographers in the final image. Excellent comment !
Excellent !! This could be the artist statement for your portfolio, as well as the intro panel for a show. Frank, honest and well stated.
that is am excellent idea, thank you
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
A picture of dream
http://squiddd.smugmug.com/Landscapes
Dang.
arroyoshark, dmmattix and the rest of the DGrin community,
Saying thank you at this point of the thread may start to sound insincere but that could not be any farther from the truth.
When I originally posted this photo on Flickr (please don't bash me:D), I received some nice comments but then I started to also relieve many negative comments. The negative comments went from, "this is a fake", "how dare you try to tell us this is a real photo" to "you should be ashamed for posting a photo that tries to pass off as a real picture", "this is just other peoples work combined into a collage" and my favorites are, "I have this exact picture of the moon and sky as my screen saver, he stole it from me" and "Photos are only real when they come straight out of the camera." I even received emails demanding me to remove my photo or at least fess up that the picture is contrived and not real but only digital art created in photoshop.
I spent many upon many hours in a darkroom with stinky chemicals and a little dangling red light trying to create my vision of a photo I took in my mind with a negative I took at the moment of that envision. When the print was finally complete, not one person ever said to me,"that photo is a fake" or "why would you print that photo when obviously it is contrived." With photoshop, we have entered a whole new world of photography and with that, a whole new world of critics that are not well versed in the different arts and styles of photography.
I would never call a master photographer like Gregory Crewdson photos fake even though he completely manipulates the scene and lighting to match his minds creation of a particular picture. He creates the shot as he sees it in his mind. Isn't that what we all do when taking pictures. We do not run around snapping pictures haphazardly without carefully composing and pre-planning the picture even if that planning is a split second before the actually picture is taken. We all try very hard to take a picture that will instill emotion or story telling by either pre processing, post processing or more commonly using both pre and post processing to achieve that end result we so desperately try to accomplish. We all want that feeling of anxiousness, excitement and enthusiasm we get when we know that we are on a track towards a great photo. Even though we rarely actually get that great photo, it doesn't stop us from pursuing it.
Well unfortunately I was unable to see the supportive comments and started to dwell on the negative ones. My buddy April, AKTSE, from this site suggested that i should post my photo here and see what a community of photographers from novice to pro will say about this photo.
The response was overwhelmingly supportive, frank, sincere, genuine and most of all positive. They did not harp or focus on how the picture was created but rather the end result of the photo itself. The people on this thread shared their feelings or emotions it stirred or support for my attempt to create a scene I envisioned in my mind from when the picture was actually taken.
This site and community of photographers has helped me understand and remind me that the end result of a photographers vision is more important then how they actually reached that particular vision.
With that said, to all of you in this great community and those that help run this awesome site, from a photographer that will always be in a frame of mind of reaching out to learn from others, I dearly thank you.
I thank you for your support, comments of critique, reminders of what is really important and most of all no matter what level of photopraphy you might be in, there is always more to learn.
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/
I think something very pure and beautiful has happened here with your posting of your fantastic image and all the responses that have followed. Daniel, I think your prose is almost as good as your images. Thank you!
www.doctorsoup.smugmug.com
Thank you for your comment:D
My Photo Blog -->http://dthorpphoto.blogspot.com/