new ideas

sanford tullis

I have started shooting dirt track racing this season, can anyone give me ideas on how to improve on the pictures?


I have forgotten how to post my pictures, I will get some up as soon as find the directions again!

sanford tullis

I found it (I think)


This is a shot from a practice a couple of weeks ago

Photosbychuck

Hi, sanford tullis

Nice Shot!
Here are a few ideas that might help.
Find a spot/location on the track where you think would be a good place to take a picture. Set your camera focus on that spot before the car gets there when it gets in your frame take the shot. You will need a fast shutter
speed also 600-800 I would say because they are moving so fast. They will slow down some in the turnes so, that could be a good location to take some shots. If, you shoot at a 45 deg angle to the moving object this will also help you freeze the action better.

Good Luck and have fun!!!

Take Care,
Chuck,
http://aperturefocus.smugmug.com

frozenrope

I'm going to diagree with the previous poster. If you shoot these with a fast shutter and thereby stop the action, you get a static shot with no sense of motion. The best approach is with a slower SS and panning. This technique will take practice but will give you a sharp image to your intended target while bluring the other moving parts (spinning wheels, graphics on sidewalls, crowd, etc). Freezing the action in motorsport photography is not the desired effect.

dusty-dog

frozenrope wrote:

I'm going to diagree with the previous poster. If you shoot these with a fast shutter and thereby stop the action, you get a static shot with no sense of motion. The best approach is with a slower SS and panning. This technique will take practice but will give you a sharp image to your intended target while bluring the other moving parts (spinning wheels, graphics on sidewalls, crowd, etc). Freezing the action in motorsport photography is not the desired effect.

I'm also venturing into sports photography, having only shot one session to date, and that being dog agility. My question to you, frozenrope, is do you suggest using a tripod when panning? Thanks.

zed

dusty-dog wrote:

I'm also venturing into sports photography, having only shot one session to date, and that being dog agility. My question to you, frozenrope, is do you suggest using a tripod when panning? Thanks.

I don't know about frozenrope, but this is what I would suggest:
Also, when you say sports photography, are you refering to motorsports or just general sports?
No tripod. I hand hold the lenses that I normally use (the biggest is the 100-400). When I rent something bigger (300 f2.8-500 f4.0) then I will use a monopod (but will still hand hold at times). If your lens feels too heavy for you to feel steady while panning or just holding it up for a long period of time, then try the monopod for extra support.

I posted this response to someone elses question on panning, but I think it may be of some help here as well.
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=48367

Jeff

mercphoto

frozenrope wrote:

I'm going to diagree with the previous poster. If you shoot these with a fast shutter and thereby stop the action, you get a static shot with no sense of motion. The best approach is with a slower SS and panning.

Absolutely correct. Fast shutters give motorsports an amateur look. On your shot in particular, the colors are washed out. Setting a higher black point alone will do wonders. Heck, even an auto-levels would probably do something beneficial.

dusty-dog

Well, I sure just learned something. I was trying to shoot with a minimum of 1/500 sec last night in an indoor dog agility training session, but it put my f-stop at f/4. It was my first attempt at this kind of photography. I was also shooting at 800-1000 ISO and using a Sigma 70-300 4-5.6 lens. I ended up with too shallow DOF and lots of noise when the subject was a distance from my flash, shooting mostly at 70mm. I really didn't need the longer zoom. Now I know. Next week, I'll be shooting with a faster lens, Nikkor 85mm f/1.8, which I borrowed from Borrowlenses.com (via smugmug) and attempting to pan at slower speeds. In about one month, I'm going to be in the market for a new and fast lens, particularly suited for shooting dog agility, and sutable for indoor shoots, the model to be determined. Thanks so much. Goddess knows I'm learnin...............

donek

sanford tullis wrote:

This is a shot from a practice a couple of weeks ago

The image is overexposed and needs basic contrast or curves work. Setting a black point would help quite a bit. Is the the dirt really that red? Seems to have a reddish cast to it. You might want to try a sunlight White Balance in this situation. A slower shutter speed would provide more motion to the picture. The spinning wheels should at least have some blur to them.

donek

dusty-dog wrote:

Well, I sure just learned something. I was trying to shoot with a minimum of 1/500 sec last night in an indoor dog agility training session, but it put my f-stop at f/4. It was my first attempt at this kind of photography. I was also shooting at 800-1000 ISO and using a Sigma 70-300 4-5.6 lens. I ended up with too shallow DOF and lots of noise when the subject was a distance from my flash, shooting mostly at 70mm. I really didn't need the longer zoom. Now I know. Next week, I'll be shooting with a faster lens, Nikkor 85mm f/1.8, which I borrowed from Borrowlenses.com (via smugmug) and attempting to pan at slower speeds. In about one month, I'm going to be in the market for a new and fast lens, particularly suited for shooting dog agility, and sutable for indoor shoots, the model to be determined. Thanks so much. Goddess knows I'm learnin...............

I would say shallow depth of field and higher shutter speeds are a good thing with the dogs. This is, in my opinion, a situation in which feezing the action is a good thing. The dogs hair and (possibly) height off the ground will give a good sense of action. A shallow depth of field will serve to throw your background out of focus making it less distracting. Noise can be handled with software like Noiseware Community Edition (free).

Hirsch

My $.02....

Move around the track. Alot of folks I've seen tend to stay planted in one spot. Your shots tend to look the same if you stand in one spot all night. Look about the track for something interesting developing, a hole or hump that gets the cars upset. This makes for some good shots sometimes.



Mostly dirt tracks run nights so you are working from daylight to whatever generally poor lighting they have at night. Use that to your advantage as you move.

I like the slower shutter panning shots , but I don't discount fast shutter speeds if you can catch the car doing something dynamic. Dirt is different than pavement. You can be panning a long nicely when the car hits a bump and jumps up and ruins a good pan. Just be aware of what your trying to achieve. For instance in the shot above I was shooting with a little slower speed trying to get a frozen left front wheel when they were entering the turn under braking. Had I notice the hole a little sooner and adjusted my speed up, I think this shot would have been much better.

Have fun. Experiment.

JBHotShots

Panning with a flash
I've been doing this for about two whole years now and still haven't found that happy medium. A lot of good points about showing motion by panning but as someone said the horrible lighting, you will almost need a flash. When you use a flash it will almost ALWAYS freeze the action. If you take the ISO up, you may have a little more noise that you would like. Who likes noise anyway?

So what are some suggestions.

zed

LouDoggsRuca wrote:

I've been doing this for about two whole years now and still haven't found that happy medium. A lot of good points about showing motion by panning but as someone said the horrible lighting, you will almost need a flash. When you use a flash it will almost ALWAYS freeze the action. If you take the ISO up, you may have a little more noise that you would like. Who likes noise anyway?

So what are some suggestions.

You should be able to do this. Think about how you would set you camera to get the shot without any flash. Let's say you are panning at 1/60 or 1/125 and you are at f2.8 and ISO 1600. If you can get some reasonbly well exposed shots, then your flash is just going to add a little extra punch. You want it to work in addition to the ambient light. You should be able to lower the flash output and use it as fill. You may even be able to lower your ISO a little. You do need to make sure that you are with in range of your flash, if you are too far away and/or are shooting too wide, you will have some fall off.
This is not the best picture to show as an example compared to what you guys are asking...it has good light already. But I just wanted to show that you can use flash and still show motion.



Jeff

JBHotShots

zed wrote:

You should be able to do this. Think about how you would set you camera to get the shot without any flash. Let's say you are panning at 1/60 or 1/125 and you are at f2.8 and ISO 1600. If you can get some reasonbly well exposed shots, then your flash is just going to add a little extra punch. You want it to work in addition to the ambient light. You should be able to lower the flash output and use it as fill. You may even be able to lower your ISO a little. You do need to make sure that you are with in range of your flash, if you are too far away and/or are shooting too wide, you will have some fall off.
This is not the best picture to show as an example compared to what you guys are asking...it has good light already. But I just wanted to show that you can use flash and still show motion.



Jeff

I am lucky enough to have two tracks allow me to shoot. I will try some of these the next two nights and hopefully have something to post on here early next week.

The Friday night track has absolutely the worst lighting I have ever seen at a track. The Saturday night track has ok lighting. I think it will be easier to use the flash as a fill on Saturday than on Friday. Also, being able to get a good location is very difficult at either. I will try not to become a fixture at either in one turn like I seem to have fallen into being.

Thanks for the tips.

mercphoto

LouDoggsRuca wrote:

I've been doing this for about two whole years now and still haven't found that happy medium. A lot of good points about showing motion by panning but as someone said the horrible lighting, you will almost need a flash. When you use a flash it will almost ALWAYS freeze the action.

Well, only if the flash is the predominant light source, which sounds like it is in your case. It still works in daylight when the flash is used as fill, as we see in the bicycle photograph, but that doesn't really compare to night time when the flash is the bulk of the light.

Note that while the flash at night will freeze the tires it is not strong enough to freeze the background that is much further away. Plus get an angle to photograph from to show motion in other ways, such as a suspension under compression, etc.

If you take the ISO up, you may have a little more noise that you would like. Who likes noise anyway?

People worry too much about noise. Which is better, the image you actually want with some noise? Or the image you don't want, but is noise free? Seriously, photographers worry too much about noise. Customers don't buy a lack of noise, they buy the image.

sanford tullis

Is this one better?

zed

It is not showing for me.


Jeff

frozenrope

zed wrote:

I don't know about frozenrope, but this is what I would suggest:
Also, when you say sports photography, are you refering to motorsports or just general sports?
No tripod. I hand hold the lenses that I normally use (the biggest is the 100-400). When I rent something bigger (300 f2.8-500 f4.0) then I will use a monopod (but will still hand hold at times). If your lens feels too heavy for you to feel steady while panning or just holding it up for a long period of time, then try the monopod for extra support.

I posted this response to someone elses question on panning, but I think it may be of some help here as well.
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=48367

Jeff

Thanks for chiming in there Jeff. I agree with your recommendations both here and in your linked post.