What would you charge friends for your prints?

saltydog

Hi everybody,

I am not a commercial photographer, this is more like a favorite hobby of mine, and now I'm not sure what to do. A fairly good friend of mine really liked some of my pics and wanted to buy a couple for her wall. Since she just recently had done me a really huge favor, I decided I owe her one and gave her two matted prints as a gift.

But now she wants to purchase another one, this time as a gift for a friend. She's perfectly fine with paying me for it - and I don't know what to charge. I checked the websites of some local established Artists, which charge upward from $120 for an 11x14 print. She doesn't have that kind of money and I am not an "established artist" either. I was thinking of asking for $45, including a mat. Does that sound reasonable? Too little? Too much? And would you give a friend a discount compared to what you normally charge, even if he/she purchases the print for somebody else?

I'd appreciate any input. Thanks,
Jana

urbanaries

I don't see how her buying a print for her wall vs. a print for her friend makes much difference...but that's just me.

For close family/friends who commission portraits from me, I give a 50% discount on prints. For things I've already shot, I charge a penny over smugmug's pricing so I can at least track it. But I don't do fine art/landscapes, so I'm not sure if that helps you.

Whatever you decide, make sure you sign it

SavedByZero

$250

Sam

If you have standard pricing and are trying to establish yourself I might recommend a very heavy discount. Say 50%. If on the other hand your not a professional, and don't have any pricing established, I would charge my friends pretty close to cost plus a Starbucks.

Sam

saltydog

Thanks for the input everyone!

@ Urbanaries - well, I kind of do think there's a difference between a friend purchasing for personal use or purchasing for another person. As I said I didn't charge my friend for her prints, partly in exchange for a favor, but that shouldn't automatically imply that she can freely distribute custom prints of my photos throughout the city, IMHO . One might say that's good promo for me, but we all know that people don't exactly keel over to spend money on "art prints" anyway. So if they're hanging on some unknown person's wall, I have no problem getting paid for it .

@ SavedByZero - STEEEP, *whistle*! I can't charge her that much.

@ Sam - It's a little tricky, because my friend told me right of the bat that she insists on paying me for this one. She's a painter herself and also makes and sells jewelry, so if I just charge her cost + a Starbucks, it kind of defies her intentions - I might as well give her another free print, instead of asking her to shove over four bucks and a latte. Do you think $45 for a 11x14 is asking too much? I really do want to give her a fair deal though and of course somewhat discounted. Does $30 sound more reasonable?

Thanks again,
J.

SavedByZero

saltydog wrote:

@ SavedByZero - STEEEP, *whistle*! I can't charge her that much.

Thanks again,
J.

I don't either that was a just kidding price. I'd have charged them maybe cost of the print plus like $20-$40 or just double the print price at most but OTHERS on this site seem to think you should always charge the max book price based on size and units distributed regardless of your level of experience or whos buying the image.

==> http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=88135

Friends don't screw other friends over for an 11x14 print or a sitting fee.

:s85

ChatKat

Time?
What's your time worth? Let's say you already had the shot.

How much time will you spend on post processing? Talking to the buyer? Delivering the print? Shipping and handling too?
Buying the mat and researching what mats are available?
Are you getting the print done locally? Gas to go and pick up the image isn't free.

Not even considering what your lens and bodies are costing; Still worth $5.00 for the print plus a Starbucks? How much time have you spent learning photography? Should that play into the price? Is your gear insured? By charging you just crossed the line as far as insurance purposes go. You might need a commercial policy to cover your equipment and some liability too.

Oh and now that you are charging for work, it's taxable income! Don't forget to charge sales tax, keep a set of books - even if it's only a spreadsheet - Hobby Income is still taxable.

SavedByZero

ChatKat wrote:

What's your time worth? Let's say you already had the shot.

How much time will you spend on post processing? Talking to the buyer? Delivering the print? Shipping and handling too?
Buying the mat and researching what mats are available?
Are you getting the print done locally? Gas to go and pick up the image isn't free.

Not even considering what your lens and bodies are costing; Still worth $5.00 for the print plus a Starbucks? How much time have you spent learning photography? Should that play into the price? Is your gear insured? By charging you just crossed the line as far as insurance purposes go. You might need a commercial policy to cover your equipment and some liability too.

Oh and now that you are charging for work, it's taxable income! Don't forget to charge sales tax, keep a set of books - even if it's only a spreadsheet - Hobby Income is still taxable.

Guess you missed the part where she said it was for "a friend" or well maybe you didn't.

gus

Not a thing. I wouldn't mix money & good friends. I would simply be happy with their friendship & the fact that they liked one of my photos.

evoryware

I would charge them whatever it cost me to print if it was family or close friend. Aquaintences is a different story..

SavedByZero wrote:

I don't either that was a just kidding price. I'd have charged them maybe cost of the print plus like $20-$40 or just double the print price at most but OTHERS on this site seem to think you should always charge the max book price based on size and units distributed regardless of your level of experience or whos buying the image.

==> http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=88135

Friends don't screw other friends over for an 11x14 print or a sitting fee.

:s85

I can't even believe I read that. That has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with this situation. Thanks. :deadhorse

glhphotos

For a "fairly good friend" you might want to just have it printed locally (or online and billed directly to her) and have her pay the costs directly to the printer. You'd avoid having to decide whether you were going to collect and pay taxes that way. If she really wants to pay you for your time (and you are OK with taking her money) she can do so separately.

I'm in a similar situation where a lot of people I work with but don't necessarily consider "friends" see my portrait work and are beginning to ask me to shoot them and their families. For friends I waive the sitting fee but make it clear that I have done so just in case they are asked how much I charge. The price of the prints is what I would normally charge for a print. These are mostly people I know from work but do not see socially. For true friends I just either just give them a print, or more likely, post on my web site a copy of the photo that is at a high enough quality for them to have printed if they want a copy. Most are happy to just see the photo and share it with family and their other friends.

ChatKat

SavedByZero wrote:

Guess you missed the part where she said it was for "a friend" or well maybe you didn't.

Nope - I did not miss the word friend - the IRS doesn't ask the relationship of the people who pay you on the tax forms.

saltydog

Wow, thanks for all the additional comments!. And thanks SavedByZero, you're thinking along the same lines as I.

Quite a few of you wrote that I should charge cost + a few bucks, but - I think that somehow would seem ridiculous. I'll be printing this on my own printer (Epson R2400) which definitely beats generic store prints, and I'll be cutting my own mat. Honestly, I'll be out just about $4-5 for ink, paper and mat board alltogether. And, I rather give it away than asking her for 5 or 10 bucks!

My problem is more about charging for "artistic value". Again, is asking for $45 too much? And yes, she's a "fairly good friend", not a super close one. And she, being an artist herself, insists on paying me for it since this one's not for her but a friend of hers.

Thanks again,
J.

bham

If you are going to charge her $45, tell her what the regular price would be ie $90-120. Then she realizes she is getting a discount.

Icebear

I think $45.00 for a matted 11x14 is pretty much a gift to your friend. I would charge $50 for an 11x14 reprint of an image for which a client has already bought the license and an 8x10. They could take the JPEG file down to WalMart and get it reprinted themselves, so what I'm telling you is that I'd charge $50 just for the print.

Art Scott

saltydog wrote:

Hi everybody,

I am not a commercial photographer, this is more like a favorite hobby of mine, and now I'm not sure what to do. A fairly good friend of mine really liked some of my pics and wanted to buy a couple for her wall. Since she just recently had done me a really huge favor, I decided I owe her one and gave her two matted prints as a gift.

But now she wants to purchase another one, this time as a gift for a friend. She's perfectly fine with paying me for it - and I don't know what to charge. I checked the websites of some local established Artists, which charge upward from $120 for an 11x14 print. She doesn't have that kind of money and I am not an "established artist" either. I was thinking of asking for $45, including a mat. Does that sound reasonable? Too little? Too much? And would you give a friend a discount compared to what you normally charge, even if he/she purchases the print for somebody else?

I'd appreciate any input. Thanks,
Jana

Jana,
Here is how I look at it and have done so since I sold my first landscape to one of my bestest friends....it was this bestest friend that made me realize this also......it is a hobby that cost you money for equipment and supplies (film days here)....so why give it away I want to pay you for it..if I go to an art show or even a garage sale I will have to pay for it..correct...wel lyes but you are my friend......yes I am and that is one reason why I want to pay you for this photo...so I said ok...let me research what it is worth and then we can haggle....well I researched (as you did) (did not respect my work or my worth at the time) and shot this friend a price...which was rejected as too low and I was told they would not cheat me as my abilities were to good to be squandered....so I quadruppled the price abd that was still a bargin to them...mind you the husband worked for a very tiny single owner 4 employee machine shop and this was almost 30 yrs aro so at the time he might have been making $8.75/hr and his wife worked at K-Mart with me so were not making even $8/hr...I felt fantastic and at the same time like I had cheated my best friends but that pic still hangs in the entry way of their home signed in gold ink by me......

If you can check something like a "Farmer and Art Market" on the weekend then see what lesser known artist are asking for similar works.....or just ask the $45 if that feels good to you and you are making at leat double the costs of printing and matting the print....but remember this sorta establishes you as a local artist now...like me you may not be well known as an artist but an artist you are and this establishes the fact.....

I also agree with bham about letting her know that you are actually discounting the price from what others in your area are charging....

Good luck

SavedByZero

ChatKat wrote:

Nope - I did not miss the word friend - the IRS doesn't ask the relationship of the people who pay you on the tax forms.

Wow you're pretty hard core.

ChatKat

SavedByZero wrote:

Wow you're pretty hard core.

Yep - my point is this - when you start asking for money you cross the line and are now a business. In the business world of finance, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it must be a duck.

So, if you are giving your work away as a hobby that's one thing to be reimbursed for your cost of the image.

But if you have any profit motive, you are a business. That means that there really isn't a grey line. It means that your homeowner's insurance won't cover your gear if it's lost, broken or whatever. Someone is hurt because they fall over your camera bag, you have some liability that extends beyond having a personal insurance policy and you have a lot to lose if you have a home or some money in the bank. It means that you have liability. Your state requires you to charge sales tax. The IRS requires you file a tax return if you collect more than $400 in the course of business.

When you give your work away at too low a price or less than real cost, you actually economically hurt all of the other photographers who are in business who pay for gas, insurance, an accountant and all that a real business entails. It's not any different than taking a job and having your boss say they are going to pay you under the table so they can profit and you get hurt because you are not paying into the system.

I know it's not that simple and maybe I seem hard core, but, I've been a business person for almost 20 years working as a consultant and tax advisor to small businesses.

When you don't charge enough for your product, you can't stay in business. Someone has to pay your overhead. So when you give stuff away, it's not just the work. You can be trading for carrying the liability on your own, eating the hidden costs like gas for your car. It's really not just the cost of the piece of paper the image is printed on.

MJRPHOTO

ChatKat wrote:

Yep - my point is this - when you start asking for money you cross the line and are now a business. In the business world of finance, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it must be a duck.

So, if you are giving your work away as a hobby that's one thing to be reimbursed for your cost of the image.

But if you have any profit motive, you are a business. That means that there really isn't a grey line. It means that your homeowner's insurance won't cover your gear if it's lost, broken or whatever. Someone is hurt because they fall over your camera bag, you have some liability that extends beyond having a personal insurance policy and you have a lot to lose if you have a home or some money in the bank. It means that you have liability. Your state requires you to charge sales tax. The IRS requires you file a tax return if you collect more than $400 in the course of business.

When you give your work away at too low a price or less than real cost, you actually economically hurt all of the other photographers who are in business who pay for gas, insurance, an accountant and all that a real business entails. It's not any different than taking a job and having your boss say they are going to pay you under the table so they can profit and you get hurt because you are not paying into the system.

I know it's not that simple and maybe I seem hard core, but, I've been a business person for almost 20 years working as a consultant and tax advisor to small businesses.

When you don't charge enough for your product, you can't stay in business. Someone has to pay your overhead. So when you give stuff away, it's not just the work. You can be trading for carrying the liability on your own, eating the hidden costs like gas for your car. It's really not just the cost of the piece of paper the image is printed on.

Kathy,
I could not have said it better.
Great post.

claudermilk

It is a touchy topic & hard to broach at first. BTDT. It really boils down to what are you comfortable charging your friend? I've done business with friends on several occasions now. They all understand what goes into producing the image (good training on my part. ), and are artists themselves so understand the issue of artists getting paid (or rather, not). In general I charge near full price, but let them know what the discount is & since I am cahrging them, they get to be difficult customers if they choose. At least one took me up on that & made me earn the money, but in the end we were both happy with the outcome.

SavedByZero

ChatKat wrote:

Yep - my point is this - when you start asking for money you cross the line and are now a business. In the business world of finance, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it must be a duck.

So, if you are giving your work away as a hobby that's one thing to be reimbursed for your cost of the image.

But if you have any profit motive, you are a business. That means that there really isn't a grey line. It means that your homeowner's insurance won't cover your gear if it's lost, broken or whatever. Someone is hurt because they fall over your camera bag, you have some liability that extends beyond having a personal insurance policy and you have a lot to lose if you have a home or some money in the bank. It means that you have liability. Your state requires you to charge sales tax. The IRS requires you file a tax return if you collect more than $400 in the course of business.

When you give your work away at too low a price or less than real cost, you actually economically hurt all of the other photographers who are in business who pay for gas, insurance, an accountant and all that a real business entails. It's not any different than taking a job and having your boss say they are going to pay you under the table so they can profit and you get hurt because you are not paying into the system.

I know it's not that simple and maybe I seem hard core, but, I've been a business person for almost 20 years working as a consultant and tax advisor to small businesses.

When you don't charge enough for your product, you can't stay in business. Someone has to pay your overhead. So when you give stuff away, it's not just the work. You can be trading for carrying the liability on your own, eating the hidden costs like gas for your car. It's really not just the cost of the piece of paper the image is printed on.

Well those are some good points but I'd still give them the print for cost or cost plus $20 and not report it to the IRS. Hell I shot the wedding for my best friend didn't charge her anything for all of it and still spent $60+ on their wedding gift. Even if I was in a business I couldn't and wouldn't feel right about charging my close friends anything for my service but if they insisted on paying it would just be for the processing.

But that's just how I am and thankfully I know many others that would do the same.

Joemess

SavedByZero wrote:

Well those are some good points but I'd still give them the print for cost or cost plus $20 and not report it to the IRS. Hell I shot the wedding for my best friend didn't charge her anything for all of it and still spent $60+ on their wedding gift. Even if I was in a business I couldn't and wouldn't feel right about charging my close friends anything for my service but if they insisted on paying it would just be for the processing.

But that's just how I am and thankfully I know many others that would do the same.

I agree... I would not charge friends for a photo here or there. If she insisted, have her donate 'X' amount to a non-profit that you support.