Help understanding my D3 please

kgarrett11

I got my D3 on Monday and spent the week reading the manual. I have a log to learn. On Saturday I took it for a run at the Jacksonville Zoo and got a few OK pictures. I am using SD 4GB cards which when formatted shows 202 available images when I have my camera set to RAW. I shot 270 pictures. When I got home all 270 pictures were on card 1 and there was still space left. I thought that after 202 it should have been filled up and the camers should have started using the second card. There were no images on card 2. Is there something that I am missing when I set the camera for RAW?

ziggy53

kgarrett11 wrote:

... I am using SD 4GB cards which when formatted shows 202 available images when I have my camera set to RAW. I shot 270 pictures. When I got home all 270 pictures were on card 1 and there was still space left. I thought that after 202 it should have been filled up and the camers should have started using the second card. There were no images on card 2. Is there something that I am missing when I set the camera for RAW?

If you look at the file sizes for your RAW files you will probably note that they are not all the same size. They will vary according to the image contents of the file.

Your camera simply uses the worst-case scenario in guessing how many images might be available to shoot. It assumes that all RAW files will be "very" large and according to their tests at the worst case.

You should have seen your camera adjust the remaining space count as you took images and your card filled up. Once the camera has "actual" file sizes to work with, the remainder counter becomes more and more reliable.

I encourage you "not" to try to fill the card until it won't hold any more images. Doing that on a consistent basis, especially if you do any field deletions, can cause image loss as the counter struggles to know the "actual" space remaining. It's not as easy as it seems and the problem is not limited to any particular make or manufacturer.

My own strategy for paying work is to load up any individual card until about 75-80% full, with no file deletions in the field. I then retire that card for the shoot. I also format the cards in the camera prior to use. For personal shooting I am much more lax and flexible and may fill up a card to "nearly" full, but I still do not delete files in the field.

kgarrett11

ziggy53 wrote:

If you look at the file sizes for your RAW files you will probably note that they are not all the same size. They will vary according to the image contents of the file.

Your camera simply uses the worst-case scenario in guessing how many images might be available to shoot. It assumes that all RAW files will be "very" large and according to their tests at the worst case.

You should have seen your camera adjust the remaining space count as you took images and your card filled up. Once the camera has "actual" file sizes to work with, the remainder counter becomes more and more reliable.

I encourage you "not" to try to fill the card until it won't hold any more images. Doing that on a consistent basis, especially if you do any field deletions, can cause image loss as the counter struggles to know the "actual" space remaining. It's not as easy as it seems and the problem is not limited to any particular make or manufacturer.

My own strategy for paying work is to load up any individual card until about 75-80% full, with no file deletions in the field. I then retire that card for the shoot. I also format the cards in the camera prior to use. For personal shooting I am much more lax and flexible and may fill up a card to "nearly" full, but I still do not delete files in the field.

Thanks, I understood that the 202 was not exactly right but I was surprised that I went to 270 and still had space left. Aslo with the D3 and the Mark III's, one of the features is to have the overflow capability of going from the first card to the second when the first is full. Are you saying that I should switch them myself when the first get to near full?

ziggy53

kgarrett11 wrote:

... Are you saying that I should switch them myself when the first get to near full?

Yes, that is my recommendation.

If you really don't have the time to switch, or just forget, usually that overflow works fine if you have not erased any files and altered the FAT on the card. I would not trust it as a rule (although some do trust it.)

Icebear

I also think the D3 will shoot in "compressed RAW" so you may need to dig around in your book to see how much space you save if your camera is set to "compressed RAW" instead of uncompressed. It makes quite a bit of difference on the D200, but the "countdown counter" just assumes uncompressed RAW. I'm positive this is so, because I've compared the readout with an empty card with both settings, and there's no difference.

And I did a lot of reading in several publications about compressed vs uncompressed RAW before becoming convinced that I lost nothing useful by going to compressed RAW.

kgarrett11

Icebear wrote:

I also think the D3 will shoot in "compressed RAW" so you may need to dig around in your book to see how much space you save if your camera is set to "compressed RAW" instead of uncompressed. It makes quite a bit of difference on the D200, but the "countdown counter" just assumes uncompressed RAW. I'm positive this is so, because I've compared the readout with an empty card with both settings, and there's no difference.

And I did a lot of reading in several publications about compressed vs uncompressed RAW before becoming convinced that I lost nothing useful by going to compressed RAW.

Thanks, It is set on compressed RAW. I'll have to look into this and see if that is what I want.

photographilia

ziggy53 wrote:

I encourage you "not" to try to fill the card until it won't hold any more images. Doing that on a consistent basis, especially if you do any field deletions, can cause image loss as the counter struggles to know the "actual" space remaining. It's not as easy as it seems and the problem is not limited to any particular make or manufacturer.

My own strategy for paying work is to load up any individual card until about 75-80% full, with no file deletions in the field. I then retire that card for the shoot. I also format the cards in the camera prior to use. For personal shooting I am much more lax and flexible and may fill up a card to "nearly" full, but I still do not delete files in the field.

I'm very surprised at this response. I've never lost a file by filling up a CF card.

Also, there are several menu items in the D3 for how it handles the two cards. Hate to say it, but the manual will be of help here too.

ziggy53

photographilia wrote:

I'm very surprised at this response. I've never lost a file by filling up a CF card.

Also, there are several menu items in the D3 for how it handles the two cards. Hate to say it, but the manual will be of help here too.

I speak from personal experience and from numerous on-line anecdotal references.

My last incident was around 2004 and I recovered all but 3 images using card recovery software. Fortunately the lost images were insignificant.

At that point I searched for both the cause and possible cure to the problem. As far as I can tell, the problem occurs mostly when people delete images in camera during a session and leave "holes" in the FAT on the card. In filling the holes with subsequent images, the card becomes fragmented, similar to how a hard drive becomes fragmended. Unfortunately, because of how flash cards use ATA translation to write and read cards, it appears that fragmented cards are difficult for the camera to gauge as "full" and the camera may write over previously used portions of the card, resulting in image loss.

Simply filling a card may be safe, but I no longer trust it. I also experience slower write speeds at the end of the card than the beginning, another reason for the recommendation of only filling to 75-80%. I do disregard this for personal work and fill cards nearly full, but I still try to avoid completely filling the card, and I never delete files in-camera anymore. (Once burned, ...)

Following my own advice, I have not lost any images or had an incident since the one in 2004.

HarlanBear

ziggy53 wrote:

I encourage you "not" to try to fill the card until it won't hold any more images. Doing that on a consistent basis, especially if you do any field deletions, can cause image loss as the counter struggles to know the "actual" space remaining. It's not as easy as it seems and the problem is not limited to any particular make or manufacturer.

My own strategy for paying work is to load up any individual card until about 75-80% full, with no file deletions in the field. I then retire that card for the shoot. I also format the cards in the camera prior to use. For personal shooting I am much more lax and flexible and may fill up a card to "nearly" full, but I still do not delete files in the field.

Ziggy, why do you not delete in the field? I do that all the time and so far have had no problems. I'm shooting with D70 and now D300. I should add that I also don't fill the cards completely, unless I somehow don't notice it.

ziggy53

HarlanBear wrote:

Ziggy, why do you not delete in the field? I do that all the time and so far have had no problems. I'm shooting with D70 and now D300. I should add that I also don't fill the cards completely, unless I somehow don't notice it.

Hi Mick,

You were still writing while I posted the reason just before.

HarlanBear

ziggy53 wrote:

Hi Mick,

You were still writing while I posted the reason just before.

Thanks, Ziggy. I'm sold. I won't be deleting in the field anymore.

Guess even with advances in memory card technology don't help you feel any better about these issues?